66 réponses à ce sujet

[DDK]

I find levelling up and finding new equipment to be mostly tedious. I would much prefer to play a game where tactics and gameplay are highly varied rather than getting a new ability or new weapon as the primary form of goal-oriented rewards. Most games tend to have the same basic elements from the first moment of play and the only thing that really varies is the fact that you get a new shiny every now and then. Imagine if, instead, every combat was a unique experience rather than it being different scenery but the same basic tactics and strategy each and every time?

 

I'm not totally against getting new shinies but I'd much prefer to see them be part of the story rather than just random pick-ups along the way or where you have to do a very particular sequence of obscure events in order to "unlock" something. Not only that, but having them as minor improvements rather than "I HAVE TO GET THIS" kinda gear or power-ups which turns them from being fun into being a chore that has to be completed.

 

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

It would be called an adventure game that way.

[Raizo]

It would not be an rpg anymore in my opinion.

[DDK]

It would not be an rpg anymore in my opinion.

 

RPG stands for Role Playing Game, not Levelling Up Gimme New Shinies Game.

[In Exile]

It would be called an adventure game that way.

 

Not really. It's not like a P&P RPG session stops being an RPG if no one levels up.

It could work exactly like any game does, except your stats are set from character creation, and you can learn (some) abilities through plot/faction aspects. I think it's totally doable.

[geth47]

It could be an rpg in the sense that you could customize the character, take decisions, assume or not certains quests and finish them in different ways, recruit different individuals and influence events.

 

Come to think of it, it´s a little strange to see a character survive being so weak for so long, and then, in less than one year vastly improve his talents and equipment. He does and learns in a matter or weeks or just a fre months what he could not do in years, if not decades of practice. 

 

I´m one who hates dealing with inventory. To make matters worse, to constantly update status in order to distribute points breaks the narrative for me. Auto-updates a la phantasy star iv seem good to me. 

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

There are RPGs out there that don't use levels or gear-based progression in the traditional sense.

 

There still is character progression/advancement though, it's just handled differently. One of my favourites, Darklands, is such a game. There are no levels, just age, attributes and skills.

 

Skills grow through use, while attributes are fixed in character creation until they deteriorate with age. It's a balancing act, as a young character is more capable and has potential to grow/learn skills faster, but an older character has experience, initial skill expertise and career advancement (moniez, equipment, etc) as their advantages. 

 

On higher difficulties, this makes a massive difference in how you play as enemies are tougher and the information given to you with regards to skill checks is less certain. So you've got to find the right balance for your playstyle.

 

It reaches a tipping point where you should handle most mundane things well enough, but the game does a marvellous job in escalating the challenges you face from the ordinary to the extraordinary. In a completely open world, it's pretty damn good design how they're able to do it IMO. It's not perfect, but everything just fits. Like it was designed holistically and every aspect supports and enhances each other. It's crazy.

[Wires_From_The_Wall]

RPG stands for Role Playing Game, not Levelling Up Gimme New Shinies Game.

 

Maybe it is time for this particular bi-weekly debate once more. ;p

 

©RPG stands for ©RPG. Term was relevant, accurate,current  and created in era when having things such as paper dolls, stats, experience points, levels, items and inventories was a very uncommon thing in video games. It reminded people of table top RPGs and their character sheets. When you saw video game with character development similar to what character sheets of some basic D&D campaign provide, it made sense to make the connection. It has been decades since any of the things listed above had been uncommon, prominent and game defining in and of themselves. For few decades now you've been able to get away with lumping Baldur's Gate, ME3, Diablo 3, Planescape. Torment, Legen of Zelda in same genre. It doesn't make sense. ©RPG as genre/term was once perfectly accurate. Today it is utterly obsolete and  means absolutely nothing.

 

Plenty of people find it natural to use the term and speak of the genre in an old fashioned context; Even though things like experience points, gear, character sheets and level advancement are present in most all genres now, calling combat oriented games where these features are exceptionally present, imortant and  prominent (Diablo 3) as RPGs makes perfect sense to many.

 

Others wish to use the term in some little more vague&modern sense. Many feel a situation where Jennifer Hale and dialogue wheel does interaction on players behalf is something that somehow wins modern game some automatic ticket to some RPG heaven.

 

Both approaches and everything and anything inbetween is technically accurate I guess. - > Term means nothing.

[DDK]

Maybe it is time for this particular bi-weekly debate once more. ;p

©RPG stands for ©RPG. Term was relevant, accurate,current  and created in era when having things such as paper dolls, stats, experience points, levels, items and inventories was a very uncommon thing in video games. It reminded people of table top RPGs and their character sheets. When you saw video game with character development similar to what character sheets of some basic D&D campaign provide, it made sense to make the connection. None of the things listed above are uncommon, prominent and game defining in and of themselves. For few decades you can get away with lumping Baldur's Gate, ME3, Diablo 3, Planescape. Torment, Legen of Zelda in same genre. It doesn't make sense. ©RPG as genre/term was once perfectly accurate. Today it is utterly obsolete and  means absolutely nothing.  If you wanna stick with what it ment at moment of it's creation, I'd say Diablo 3 makes more of an RPG than ME 3.

 

Go away.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

He has a point though.

 

Without heavily enforced statistic based gameplay that allows the character(s) to interact in a variety of different ways in accordance with a character system/ruleset (P&P games without progression still have this), you've got an Action/Adventure or Strategy game depending on the gameplay.

[Wires_From_The_Wall]

Go away.

 

Unconstructive  void-of-content bullshit remarks to people providing their take on things you ask in your own OP. 

Nice going,lol.

 

It is apparent enough  you never wanted to have a conversation about this but rather, only wished to explain the world how you feel. Next time, don't decorate your blog post with question marks if you can't stand POVs besides yours.

[xAmilli0n]

It could be an rpg in the sense that you could customize the character, take decisions, assume or not certains quests and finish them in different ways, recruit different individuals and influence events.

 

That works for me.  The only issue I see being is that many players like that sense of accomplishment that comes with leveling up.  This type of game could alienate that side of the RPG fandom.

 

Could be interesting to see an RPG with all the correct components but with absolutely NO leveling up characters or components.  It could also be potentially boring.  Someone make this game so we can find out,

[DDK]

Unconstructive  void-of-content bullshit remarks to people providing their take on things you ask in your own OP. 

Nice going,lol.

 

It is apparent enough  you never wanted to have a conversation about this but rather, only wished to explain the world how you feel. Next time, don't decorate your blog post with question marks if you can't stand POVs besides yours.

 

Go away.

[Raizo]

Go away.

So you open a discussion but when someone voices an opinion that is different than yours you refuse to acknowledge it, very mature of you.

RPG or role playing game can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. I associate rpg's with strong story lines, levelling up and loot, take away the levelling up and the loot and in my opinion it is no longer an rpg. Take awAy the loot and the levling up and Mass Effect 1 to 3 are essentially no different than Gears of War. Do you consider Gears of War to be an rpg, what about GTA, Call of Duty, Heavy Rain, Halo, Metroid, Tetris, etc. Without levelling up or loot what will differentiate RPGs from any other game out there.

[Khayness]

Wow, look at you OP, being so edgy and stuff.

 

Nice namecalling in that ME1 cheat thread of yours aswell.

 

Seems like you are playing the wrong genre if you are not enjoying it. Would be nice for decades of defying traits to change just for your wishes.

[In Exile]

He has a point though.

 

Without heavily enforced statistic based gameplay that allows the character(s) to interact in a variety of different ways in accordance with a character system/ruleset (P&P games without progression still have this), you've got an Action/Adventure or Strategy game depending on the gameplay.

 

Even if that were all true, you still wouldn't need level progression for that. 

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Even if that were all true, you still wouldn't need level progression for that. 

 

 

"Without heavily enforced statistic based gameplay that allows the character(s) to interact in a variety of different ways in accordance with a character system/ruleset (P&P games without progression still have this), you've got an Action/Adventure or Strategy game depending on the gameplay."

 

Not to mention, what's my first sentence in this thread?

 

"There are RPGs out there that don't use levels or gear-based progression in the traditional sense."

 

Right.

 

What the OP is asking for is Mass Effect without a character system, or where most if not all abilities are already available to the player at the beginning. Is Gears of War an RPG?

[SlottsMachine]

My ninja, who are you?

 

"Dangerous" Damien Kass?

[mybudgee]

This thread is funny

[In Exile]

 

"Without heavily enforced statistic based gameplay that allows the character(s) to interact in a variety of different ways in accordance with a character system/ruleset (P&P games without progression still have this), you've got an Action/Adventure or Strategy game depending on the gameplay."

 

Not to mention, what's my first sentence in this thread?

 

"There are RPGs out there that don't use levels or gear-based progression in the traditional sense."

 

Right.

 

What the OP is asking for is Mass Effect without a character system, or where most if not all abilities are already available to the player at the beginning. Is Gears of War an RPG?

 

I don't see what this snark post is related to, since I agreed with you. 

[Druk-Qs]

I already did, it was called Mass Effect 2 and it was kewl

 

[Remmirath]

If it seemed interesting, there's no reason I wouldn't. I do prefer systems with levels in general, and I like finding items, but I don't think either are in any way required for a fun RPG, and I've played some without one or another that are enjoyable.

To me, whether or not something is a roleplaying game depends entirely on the ability to create and control one or more characters. Nothing else. Obviously, it must be a game at all to qualify, but beyond that? If you can make your own character and control that character in the game, it's a roleplaying game. If you can't, I say it's not. Some games fall into a bit of a grey area -- either you can make the character entirely, but have difficulty controlling them, or you cannot make the character but can control them completely. Some I count as RPGs, most I don't.

I'll admit that, being as I'm rather fond of combat, if this game also didn't have that I would be fairly unlikely to be interested in it -- but I would still think of it as a real RPG.