257 réponses à ce sujet

[Chiramu]

A Mary Sue is actually a female character who has no defining qualities and is literally perfect in every way. 

 

A player character from a Bioware game has to have limited personality but that does not mean that it can not be written later into the character, like with dialogue choices that help define the character. Otherwise you have to work on your own player character through the use of RP, would be nice if more choices became available in game though, and not ones that tell you how cool or sexy that your character is.

 

From this thread though, people have no idea what a Mary Sue is. They usually exist in first drafts and if the writer is too lazy they don't expand into a proper character. 

[tmp7704]

Even if that were true, the politicians could still challenge it as being legitimate, or as the person who makes that decision can only be a dwarf in "good" standing with the assembly because that's what the paragon would really have meant, etc.

Yup, there's definitely room for technicalities and such if they (the devs) wanted that, and if that happened it'd be logical given how we're told all the time dwarf politics is so ruthless and layered and whatnot. I guess it's just not there because coming with the crown is sort of denouement for that arc, so they have the loser either fold without further fight or literally cut out of the way, to not drag things further.

[Volus Warlord]

A Mary Sue character is an idealized version of an IRL person, typically the author. If not the author, than generally someone the author is close to or admires. Gender is irrelevant. 

[Rawgrim]

Talis was a Mary Sue, I guess. Could leap 50 feet through the air, for no good reason etc.

[Urazz]

You know I find it funny that the one Bioware main character that wasn't a Mary Sue/Gary Stu was Hawke and people were complaining relentlessly about how Hawke was failing at things.

[jtav]

I loved Hawke for precisely that reason. And it makes me sad BW is likely going back to the Warden/Shep template. I don't want my protagonist to be the most awesome person in the world.

[Nightwriter]

No this is a Mary Sue.

 

No THIS is a Mary Sue.

 

No, no. This HERE is a Mary Sue not those other things.

 

Mary Sue Warden. Mary Sue Shepard! Mary Sue Liara and Garrus and Mary Sue Hawke. Mary Sue Elmo and Mary Sue Dorothy Mary Sue Frodo MARY SUE YODA.

 

Mary Sue. Mary Sue. Mary Sue Mary Sue Mary Sue. Maaaaary Sssuue -- oo -- eee...? M-Mary... Mary... Ma...  Mah... ree, mah-ree...

[Urazz]

Yeah, I loved Hawke for that reason as well but I do think they could've handled it better.  DA2 had too much of the protagonist failing regardless of your control.  I.E. you couldn't save your mother regardless of what you did, you couldn't ally with the Templar/mage rebellion against Meredith, you couldn't choose to focus more on saving the citizens of Kirkwall over choosing mages or templar, etc.

 

I don't think Bioware is going back to the Warden/Shepard template of the hero being almost unable to fail.  I'm thinking they learned from the mistakes of DA2 in that regard and will try to allow you to decide things and have every choice have some sort of effect.  The demo showed this fairly well I think when you had a choice in what to do with your troops and if you wanted to try to save both the keep and the village if you sent your troops to one of those places.

[Nefla]

I don't mind if we have a special ability as long as we're also interesting and fallible. Plus we can control the PC's personality so it's all fine and dandy to me.

[Spectre Impersonator]

Who's Mary Sue? Is she romanceable?

[addiction21]

snip

 

Thank you hipster Lisa. Now do one with plot hole please

 

 

Mary sue and plot hole are some words that should be banned around here since the majority have no idea what they mean. Just ascribe them to what they don't like.

[wolfhowwl]

You know I find it funny that the one Bioware main character that wasn't a Mary Sue/Gary Stu was Hawke and people were complaining relentlessly about how Hawke was failing at things.

 

Hawke was unfortunately the victim of some poorly handled and blatant railroading that could have been avoided with a few changes and of course more development time (but we all know the story there).

 

More time in the oven for DA2 probably would have averted some of the complaints.

 

Talis was a Mary Sue, I guess. Could leap 50 feet through the air, for no good reason etc.

 

Tallis was just terrible.

 

Unlike the main game I don't think the excuse of a rushed development can be used to justify that DLC's shoddy treatment of Hawke. Apparently it is too much to ask that that the player character have a chance to act against the self-insert of an internet celebrity.

[zambingo]

Who's Mary Sue? Is she romanceable?

Always and all ways... if you know what I mean.[/Barney Stinson]

[Mes]

A Mary Sue is actually a female character who has no defining qualities and is literally perfect in every way. 

 

 

Or a male character. Like Superman.

[Spectre Impersonator]

Always and all ways... if you know what I mean.[/Barney Stinson]

She sounds hot.

[zambingo]

The character and performance of Tallis, I think, gets unjust criticism fueled from the DLC just not being that good.

It's a tough thing to defend when you think you're buying DLC to hang with your favorite companions only to spend 90% (not really, but damn it felt like it) of the DLC alone with a NEWB and then doing things that aren't really that that fun... plus with no consequence... You've been caught sneaking! Ha. Not really.

With that said; I would love if we got to revisit Tallis, I think there is really cool potential in her character.

[In Exile]

Yup, there's definitely room for technicalities and such if they (the devs) wanted that, and if that happened it'd be logical given how we're told all the time dwarf politics is so ruthless and layered and whatnot. I guess it's just not there because coming with the crown is sort of denouement for that arc, so they have the loser either fold without further fight or literally cut out of the way, to not drag things further.

 

I get the scene, and I think it works just fine, but it's one of those scenes that really empowers the PC. 

[Maiden Crowe]

TLDR: Mary Sues are an important part of RPGs. 

 

I strongly disagree with that assertion, even though I have proven most of you to be hypocrites falling back on the "but Mary Sues are an important part of RPGs" exuse wont save you, an RPG without a mary sue protagonist is perfectly viable and while some of you may point out Dragon Age 2 (even though even Hawke displayed some very Sueish traits) as reason why they dont work it would be like pointing out Big Rigs as an example of how racing sims don't work.

[Steelcan]

Mary Sue is a broad term but usually encompasses a core set of traits

 

usually included are -attractiveness, in universe recognition/likeability/respect, plot armor, magnetism (they tend to draw people and fans), innocence, situational plot skills, unexplained badassery, and a few others

 

keep in mid these aren't really criteria, nor are they the only ones

[In Exile]

Mary Sue is a broad term but usually encompasses a core set of traits

 

usually included are -attractiveness, in universe recognition/likeability/respect, plot armor, magnetism (they tend to draw people and fans), innocence, situational plot skills, unexplained badassery, and a few others

 

keep in mid these aren't really criteria, nor are they the only ones

 

Well, these are definitely features of any Bioware protagonist. 

[addiction21]

I strongly disagree with that assertion, even though I have proven most of you to be hypocrites

 

You have not proven anything except you don't know what a Mary sue is.
 

[Thandal N'Lyman]

You have not proven anything except you don't know what a Mary sue is.
 

 

Well... Maiden Crowe has also proven that the s/he likes to stir pots just to see if anything (or anyone) can be made to boil.

[leaguer of one]

Kahlee Sanders.

This the only thing I will ever agree with General TSAR on

[leaguer of one]

Talis was a Mary Sue, I guess. Could leap 50 feet through the air, for no good reason etc.

Talis is far from a mary sue. Hell, common street thugs in DA2 and jump 50 in the air. And it's impossible to be a Mary sue when most of the cast tell you that your beliefs are wrong.

[Steelcan]

Tallis was infuriating, plot armored, and seemingly developer favored or something, but gods she is awful