917 réponses à ce sujet

[RynJ]

Oh, it incited action alright. He justified every fear any Andrastian ever had about mages. 

 

Well at least he didn't use blood magic. Then he would have had the whole shebang of terrible maginess! 

[Aimi]

And caused the deaths of an entire circle that was innocent of wrong doing, deaths that could've been avoided since that same Chantry you hate rejected (twice) Templars asking for a RoA. An action that killed the one woman in power that was more interested in keeping the peace than hunting Mages. Turning a lot of people who may have been on the fence against the mages. Forcing other mages who agreed with the Circle (like our new dear Iron Lady) or at least wanted to earn their freedom in other non-violent ways into open conflict.
 
The price for 'forcing action' was too high.

You make him sound like John Brown.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well at least he didn't use blood magic. Then he would have had the whole shebang of terrible maginess! 

He skipped that step and went straight to becoming an abomination.

[RynJ]

He skipped that step and went straight to becoming an abomination.

 

Oh but he could have been a blood magic using abomination!

 

It's the little things, Hinata. You have to appreciate the little things 

 

It amazes me that this thread still lives.

[Nohvarr]

he did get what he wanted. All he wanted to do with that bomb was start the fighting and that happened.

 

He murdered at least one woman, a women he knows could've prevented a war, turns people against the mages, and starts a conflict that results in the death of a circle. He should've just blown up the circle, would've been faster and might have actually garnered the mages some sympathy.

 

So in that way it WAS effective. Will it be effective for mage freedom?

 

We already know it wasn't. We know that the game begins at a peace meeting that get's destroyed in a fade tear. If the mages had won their freedom there would be no need for a peace meeting as they'd be dictating terms to the Templars and the Chantry. The fact that the PC comes along to make everything better or worse for mages can't be attributed to Anders since he had no way of knowing that would happen.

[RynJ]

We already know it wasn't. We know that the game begins at a peace meeting that get's destroyed in a fade tear. If the mages had won their freedom there would be no need for a peace meeting as they'd be dictating terms to the Templars and the Chantry. The fact that the PC comes along to make everything better or worse for mages can't be attributed to Anders since he had no way of knowing that would happen.

 

Patience, my friend. I'm sure we'll have a hand in solving the mage war in this game or in future games. They're not just going to have the whole conflict wrap up before we have our part in it! 

 

Anders can sit there and tell himself it was because of him if he's alive. Doesn't make it true and I doubt he even would. I'm not sure how sane he'd be at that point anyways.

[Reaverwind]

He started, or at least partially started, his war. Which is what he wanted. Whether or not it's "good" doesn't really matter, he accomplished his goal. Guy didn't even think he'd live to see the rest!

 

Yep, he sure succeeded in starting a war which resulted in a whole lot of bloodshed, cemented old hatreds, and accomplished little else. Mages should count themselves fortunate that the more hardline members of the Chantry were slow to capitalize on the propaganda windfall handed to them.

[Cobra's_back]

Actually, I don't know if I give Anders credit for the mages finally breaking loose. Many thought he was a crazy man. I believe the credit goes to Rhy. Everyone would listen to him. I hope he didn't die.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Actually, I don't know if I give Anders credit for the mages finally breaking loose. Many thought he was a crazy man. I believe the credit goes to Rhy. Everyone would listen to him. I hope he didn't die.

They Circle doesn't break away for three years after the Kirkwall Incident by a vote of all the Senior Enchanters, who had sworn Anders off as a lunatic. So yeah, he gets no credit for helping free the mages. 

[Cobra's_back]

Yep, he sure succeeded in starting a war which resulted in a whole lot of bloodshed, cemented old hatreds, and accomplished little else. Mages should count themselves fortunate that the more hardline members of the Chantry were slow to capitalize on the propaganda windfall handed to them.

 

I don't think he did. They were rounded up and made tranquil. As for other Circles travel became restricted and they clamped down on them. Rhy is behind the movement in Orlais. That is why his ex set him up. She knew all the mages would support Rhy.

[RynJ]

They Circle doesn't break away for three years after the Kirkwall Incident by a vote of all the Senior Enchanters, who had sworn Anders off as a lunatic. So yeah, he gets no credit for helping free the mages. 

 

Eh he got the ball rolling at least a little bit. I'd say he's one puzzle piece at least in a big magey puzzle. It takes much more than one act to incite rebellion everywhere, though, thus nothing really getting started until years later. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Eh he got the ball rolling at least a little bit. I'd say he's one puzzle piece at least in a big magey puzzle. It takes much more than one act to incite rebellion everywhere, though, thus nothing really getting started until years later. 

Fiona has been wanting mage independence for longer than when Anders did his thing. All he did was make it harder. 

[RynJ]

Fiona has been wanting mage independence for longer than when Anders did his thing. All he did was make it harder. 

 

You do have to question whether all this would be happening right now as it is if it wasn't for him. I'm not sure it would be. It probably would be eventually and possibly not long afterwards, however. Maybe Meredith's craziness would have sent things rolling among the Circles eventually by itself, Chantry explosion or not.

[Cobra's_back]

You do have to question whether all this would be happening right now as it is if it wasn't for him. I'm not sure it would be. It probably would be eventually and possibly not long afterwards, however. Maybe Meredith's craziness would have sent things rolling among the Circles eventually by itself, Chantry explosion or not.

 

Actually, This things would have happened anyway. It was just a function of time. White Spire Hall was the perfect place for it to start.

[Nohvarr]

Eh he got the ball rolling at least a little bit. I'd say he's one puzzle piece at least in a big magey puzzle. It takes much more than one act to incite rebellion everywhere, though, thus nothing really getting started until years later. 

When the mages who vote to break away from the Chantry 3 FULL YEARS later condemn Anders actions, I think we can safely say he get's no credit for mage freedom or getting the ball rolling. What he does get credit for is the annihilation of the Kirkwall circle, the death of Elthina, and the chaos that consumed the city in the immediate aftermath of his actions which killed more people.

 

That is Ander's Legacy.

[Lord Raijin]

I wouldn't go so far as to say she was completely monstrous but I see your points. To me, some people are too caught up in trying to justify everything Anders does because they like him while people who hate him will harp on it constantly and try to act like there was no sound reasoning at all for doing what he did. The guy didn't just fly off the handle at the drop of a hat for no reason. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, innocence is subjective, but terrorism is never okay stop trying to justify what he did, etc. The whole argument has gone round and round so many times and frankly that wasn't really what the original thread was about. The thread was just you saying that you'd pay to see Anders return and the typical hate flying in response peppered with some arguments.

 

I'm kind of surprised this thread wasn't locked a while ago, actually. 

 

Yes I'm going that far into calling her monstrous because shes part of the problem in Thedas. Even the people who respect her is secretly wrote to the divine to get a new replacement.

 

The word "terrorist" seems to appear when we discuss Anders. Let me ask you a fair question. If what Anders did was an act of terrorism, by blowing up the Chantry, then what word shall we use for what the Chantry has been doing to the mages for the past century? What do you call a religious organization that has so much power that they can actually send their soldiers over to peoples houses in cities, and take away their children that has magic talents, and lock them away in some tower for the rest of their lives? God forbids that a mage wands up pregnant  in the Circle that the chantry can kidnap the newborn baby after the birthing process, and leaving the exhausted mother alone to cry not having the ability to bond with her baby? The baby gets sent to the chantry to be raised by crazy priests. This puts the baby at risk since a newborn needs the mothers milk to get the antibodies.

 

I think what Anders did was far minor considering the what the Chantry has been doing to the mages.

 

If were going to use IRL words by classifying Anders as a terrorists for doing what he did then It's safe to say that the Chantry are Nazi's.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yes I'm going that far into calling her monstrous because shes part of the problem in Thedas. 

Then you admit Anders is a monster too since he is part of the problem?

[MisterJB]

Actually, This things would have happened anyway. It was just a function of time. White Spire Hall was the perfect place for it to start.

A locked room where every First Enchanter in the land was separated from their power bases and surrunded by an army of Templars in the most Andrastean city in Thedas was the perfect place to start it?

[Sir DeLoria]

Yes I'm going that far into calling her monstrous because shes part of the problem in Thedas. Even the people who respect her is secretly wrote to the divine to get a new replacement.
 
The word "terrorist" seems to appear when we discuss Anders. Let me ask you a fair question. If what Anders did was an act of terrorism, by blowing up the Chantry, then what word shall we use for what the Chantry has been doing to the mages for the past century? What do you call a religious organization that has so much power that they can actually send their soldiers over to peoples houses in cities, and take away their children that has magic talents, and lock them away in some tower for the rest of their lives? God forbids that a mage wands up pregnant  in the Circle that the chantry can kidnap the newborn baby after the birthing process, and leaving the exhausted mother alone to cry not having the ability to bond with her baby? The baby gets sent to the chantry to be raised by crazy priests. This puts the baby at risk since a newborn needs the mothers milk to get the antibodies.
 
I think what Anders did was far minor considering the what the Chantry has been doing to the mages.
 
If were going to use IRL words by classifying Anders as a terrorists for doing what he did then It's safe to say that the Chantry are Nazi's.

There is so much wrong with this post...no...I don't even...

Let's just say you should really look up the definition of terrorism, understand what the nutzis did and stop using those ridiculous emotional fallacies.

[AresKeith]

Then you admit Anders is a monster too since he is part of the problem?

 

We both know this answer

[EmissaryofLies]

The monster is no longer under the bed. You cannot run and hide any longer; Fenris: "There is a time when you must turn and face the tiger". 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

We both know this answer

I want to hear him say it. 

[The Hierophant]

Yes I'm going that far into calling her monstrous because shes part of the problem in Thedas. Even the people who respect her is secretly wrote to the divine to get a new replacement.

The word "terrorist" seems to appear when we discuss Anders. Let me ask you a fair question. If what Anders did was an act of terrorism, by blowing up the Chantry, then what word shall we use for what the Chantry has been doing to the mages for the past century? What do you call a religious organization that has so much power that they can actually send their soldiers over to peoples houses in cities, and take away their children that has magic talents, and lock them away in some tower for the rest of their lives? God forbids that a mage wands up pregnant in the Circle that the chantry can kidnap the newborn baby after the birthing process, and leaving the exhausted mother alone to cry not having the ability to bond with her baby? The baby gets sent to the chantry to be raised by crazy priests. This puts the baby at risk since a newborn needs the mothers milk to get the antibodies

I think what Anders did was far minor considering the what the Chantry has been doing to the mages.

If were going to use IRL words by classifying Anders as a terrorists for doing what he did then It's safe to say that the Chantry are Nazi's.

Anders is a terrorist because he used violence to incite fear in his enemies (Meredith's paranoia is fueled by fear) in order to further his political agenda.

Plus Godwin's Law much? I give the discrimination angle to you since it's in both organizations, but the institutionalization of eugenics and the systematic genocide of people who are deemed genetically inferior (jews, the mentally and physically disabled) to the master race doesn't equal the mass containment, quarantine and imprisonment of a population of people who are considered living weapons due to them being low tier reality warpers, and who are also hunted 24/7 by homicidal, carnivorous spirits who seek to possess them.

Try harder Raijin.

[Cobra's_back]

A locked room where every First Enchanter in the land was separated from their power bases and surrunded by an army of Templars in the most Andrastean city in Thedas was the perfect place to start it?

 

Because I hate Orlais and love Ferelden. It also makes for a good story the irony it happened there and I also love Rhys and Evangeline.

 

Thanks Edler King

 

Edit: Okay not the best location.

[The Elder King]

Because I hate Orlais and love Ferelden. It also makes for a good story the irony it happened there and I also love Rhys and Evangeline.

MisterJB's point is that the mages at the conference were surrounded and at disadvantage: if not for the Divine, they woudn't have left the White Spire.