917 réponses à ce sujet

[KainD]

Not when you claim to represent them and their plight. 

 

Many people believe that they know better what is good for others and act on it, regardless of other peoples opinions. 

[Divine Justinia V]

All Justice does is give Anders the courage to do what he wants. There's no reason to blame him.

[Br3admax]

Many people believe that they know better what is good for others and act on it, regardless of other peoples opinions. 

And those people are at just as much fault as Anders. One can never decide for many. 

[RynJ]

All Justice does is give Anders the courage to do what he wants. There's no reason to blame him.

 

I think they influence each other more equally than that. Justice brings with him a very black and white, right and wrong outlook. To have that fueled and tainted by Anders's fury is what made their combination so dangerous.

 

As for Anders being in full control in Friendship and not in Rivalry, the rivalry path actually made me wonder how 'in control' friendship-route Anders is. It might just be a matter of accepting versus fighting. Agreeing versus disagreeing. 

 

Not that I think all of this is Justice's fault, I just find it much more interesting the way the two influence each other rather than saying "oh it was all Anders, Justice just gave him little nudges".

[KainD]

That's true, but why leave so much in the hands of someone who doesn't even live here? It's more retarded than leaving the fate of the dwarven kingdoms in the hands of my Dalish warden. You're leaving everything to a deformed fade spirit. Great plan. Derp.

 

To be fair this is not my fight. I don't agree with Anders and his ideas, I just happen to love what he did. Blowing up  a chantry - I hate the chantry. Starting a mage war - I don't believe mages can co-exist equally with mundanes, and I am on the mage side, so any institution that keeps mages as a second class citizens I want to be destroyed. So there. 

[Lord Raijin]

The problem is the Chantry isn't blowing up a giant church filled with innocent lives

 

First off the Chantry was not full of innocent people. It was late at night and when Bioware showed us a brief cinematic footage of the explosion only Elthina and a couple of the Templar's were there. I did not see any regular citizens in the chantry during the explosion.

 

And speaking loss of innocent lives the Chantry protected Sister Petrice from facing serious crimes that would most likely resulted in an execution against the city when she stirred up trouble against the Qunari people. She killed the Viscount son and then was held responsible (from her actions) for the death of the Viscount himself as he got decapitated by the Arishok after such provocation.

 

http://dragonage.wik...Rising_tensions

 

Since the Chantry protected her from seeking punishment for her crimes and did nothing they are responsible for the deaths of many after the Qunari invasion was over with. The Chantry was illegally harboring a criminal that did serious harm against the entire city.

[Br3admax]

It isn't just the right and wrong outlook Justice gives. Again, as I pointed out, it's his impatience.

 

He lives in the Fade. He wills things into being when he wants something. But that doesn't work in the real world. The world is made up materials and processes. If you want to tie a rope into a knot, you don't just "will" it. There's a process. Same thing goes for matters of justice or eating or whatever. Everything requires process. This is something that Justice can not grasp. And so he just blows things up, because it's the closest method to his own existence.

Anders again chose to blow up the Chantry. Justice had nothing to do with that. He plotted that out on his own, manipulating his friends the entire time, even pulling out the you don't love me excuse for a romanced Hawke. Justice had no hand in this. 

[Lord Raijin]

....you got it all in so many wrong ways ! for the first part ,it have nothing to do with him being illegal or apostate or anything at all regarding him . he did it because he witness the violence acts and abuses on the mages by the templars everyday more and more ,templars who should have been the law ,instead they used their power like that alric to condam innocent mages like that girl into tranquility so they could use them in the so many ways they want , if this is not terrorism itself .

and yeah your right ,he did had no business inteferring in the circle affairs, do you guess who's business was ? the grand cleric . what did she do regarding this business ? nothing . keeping an eye over all this transgration of law by the law itself , and bieng above the commander of the law itself , she kept silent. silence over the days ,over the years , trying nonetheless to reach for her and speak sense to her , but even her couldnt do anything to help those people .

i think this is the part you didnt get.

after that Anders was not claimed as a 'terrorist' yet when he was still trying to speak to the grand cleric ,when he was still writing his manifesto ,when he was still helping people in the undercity for free.

that part too you forgot. now try to rethink about what i say above if you want .

 

You're wasting time trying to explain logic to some of these people.

[RynJ]

Anders again chose to blow up the Chantry. Justice had nothing to do with that. He plotted that out on his own, manipulating his friends the entire time, even pulling out the you don't love me excuse for a romanced Hawke. Justice had no hand in this. 

 

I'm confused by this. I'm pretty sure Justice had a lot to do with it. I was under the impression that this plan was their machination together. After all, as Anders says, you can't tell where Anders ends and Justice begins. It's not like Justice sat there in the recesses of his mind just because Anders wasn't going all glowy-eyed during his scenes.

[AresKeith]

You're wasting time trying to explain logic to some of these people.

 

lol

[KainD]

I don't mind a Chantry/Mage war myself, but only if it doesn't plummet the world into the "abyss", as Flemeth would say.

 

I still like Dragon Age. I don't want it to end, like Mass Effect. Wars are fun for games, as long as they don't end everything. lol

 

Nah, such a war won't plummet anything into the abyss. 

[RynJ]

Nah, such a war won't plummet anything into the abyss. 

 

Yes it will! Only you get to choose WHICH abyss you plummet into. One is red, one is blue and one is green 

[KainD]

If it's aimless and just about destroying, then it will certainly lead nowhere good.

 

Wars need a goal, a point where people come to terms, and respect at least part of the other's right to exist in some fashion. If it's just about "DIE CHANTRY!", then I see nothing good from it.

 

How come? When the chantry dies, everyone who wanted it dead will have a much better life. There are some ideas and ways of life that just can't co-exist in any way, sometimes there is no way other than to fight it out with the intent of pure destruction. 

[EmissaryofLies]

If it cannot bend. The Chantry will be broken. 

 

Bioware must not shoot the player in the foot by limiting options as it pertains to dealing with the headless Chantry. 

[Divine Justinia V]

I think they influence each other more equally than that. Justice brings with him a very black and white, right and wrong outlook. To have that fueled and tainted by Anders's fury is what made their combination so dangerous.

 

As for Anders being in full control in Friendship and not in Rivalry, the rivalry path actually made me wonder how 'in control' friendship-route Anders is. It might just be a matter of accepting versus fighting. Agreeing versus disagreeing. 

 

Not that I think all of this is Justice's fault, I just find it much more interesting the way the two influence each other rather than saying "oh it was all Anders, Justice just gave him little nudges".

 

eh I disagree.

While it is interesting, I think Anders was just the male Mage version of Meredith.

[Divine Justinia V]

First off the Chantry was not full of innocent people. It was late at night and when Bioware showed us a brief cinematic footage of the explosion only Elthina and a couple of the Templar's were there. I did not see any regular citizens in the chantry during the explosion.

 

And speaking loss of innocent lives the Chantry protected Sister Petrice from facing serious crimes that would most likely resulted in an execution against the city when she stirred up trouble against the Qunari people. She killed the Viscount son and then was held responsible (from her actions) for the death of the Viscount himself as he got decapitated by the Arishok after such provocation.

 

http://dragonage.wik...Rising_tensions

 

Since the Chantry protected her from seeking punishment for her crimes and did nothing they are responsible for the deaths of many after the Qunari invasion was over with. The Chantry was illegally harboring a criminal that did serious harm against the entire city.

 

There were innocent people there, what are you talking about? And you didn't see anything in there because we weren't in there, are you serious lol? That is a terrible argument.

 

What does the Qunari and one corrupt priestess have to do with any of this?

The answer is nothing.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

First off the Chantry was not full of innocent people. It was late at night and when Bioware showed us a brief cinematic footage of the explosion only Elthina and a couple of the Templar's were there. I did not see any regular citizens in the chantry during the explosion.

You realize all the innocent Chantry brothers and sisters live in the Chantry right?

 

Oh wait, you think people who pray are as guilty as people like Alrik.

[RynJ]

eh I disagree.

While it is interesting, I think Anders was just the male Mage version of Meredith.

 

How DARE you disagree!

 

Nah just kidding. I find that people have a lot of differing opinions on the whole Anders/Justice thing. It's cool to see how different some ideas are from others!

[EmissaryofLies]

eh I disagree.

While it is interesting, I think Anders was just the male Mage version of Meredith.

 

Well THAT is certainly interesting. Peculiar, but interesting nonetheless. 

[KainD]

Listen to yourself. The chantry doesn't "die". It's a religion. Try thinking about it for a moment. You don't just extinguish global ideas.

 

And if it is possible, it takes eons. This is exactly the kind of half-assed thinking Justice prides himself on. That he can just "will" things the way he wants. It doesn't work that way.

 

What if it doesn't die straight away it's not worth fighting for? Most people in real life are currently anti-slavery, even though very recently it was lawful and fine. Nowadays slavers get punished. Do we still have some underground slavery trades? Sure. Does that mean that people shouldn't have fought slavers? Or maybe slavers should've been given an option to co-exist with other people that don't believe in slavery while being slavers? Just an example.