33 réponses à ce sujet

[Gervaise]

I was wondering if anyone could clarify a few points for me.   In DAO we were told the grey giants were called Qunari and they arrived in Thedas from somewhere else, landing in Par Volen.   Then in DA2 we were told that Qunari only referred to those who followed the way of the Qun.   There were others of the same species who were known as Tal-Vashoth who had left the Qun.   Somewhere or other I also remember being told that the generic game for these grey skinned giants was Kossith, although that name seems to have fallen by the wayside.   I now understand that we are to be introduced  to another branch of the species, know as Vashoth because they have never been part of the Qun.

 

My questions is: Were the Kossith who arrived in Par Volen already followers of the Qun, in which case any that are no longer of the Qun have left it since then and therefore the Vashoth are the descendants of Tal-Vashoth?   Or were the Kossith who arrived a mixed bunch and the rise of the Qunari faith only occurred after they had landed, so Vashoth could in fact be descended from those who did not accept this teaching in the beginning and chose exile instead of adopting the faith of the majority?

 

I would stress here that I am only interested in the status of grey skinned giants as I'm fully aware that any species can become a member of the Qun, even though it would appear that the major leadership roles are only given to Kossith.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Qunari

[Iakus]

I was wondering if anyone could clarify a few points for me.   In DAO we were told the grey giants were called Qunari and they arrived in Thedas from somewhere else, landing in Par Volen.   Then in DA2 we were told that Qunari only referred to those who followed the way of the Qun.   There were others of the same species who were known as Tal-Vashoth who had left the Qun.   Somewhere or other I also remember being told that the generic game for these grey skinned giants was Kossith, although that name seems to have fallen by the wayside.   I now understand that we are to be introduced  to another branch of the species, know as Vashoth because they have never been part of the Qun.

 

My questions is: Were the Kossith who arrived in Par Volen already followers of the Qun, in which case any that are no longer of the Qun have left it since then and therefore the Vashoth are the descendants of Tal-Vashoth?   Or were the Kossith who arrived a mixed bunch and the rise of the Qunari faith only occurred after they had landed, so Vashoth could in fact be descended from those who did not accept this teaching in the beginning and chose exile instead of adopting the faith of the majority?

 

I would stress here that I am only interested in the status of grey skinned giants as I'm fully aware that any species can become a member of the Qun, even though it would appear that the major leadership roles are only given to Kossith.

 

"Kossith" is an archaic term for the qunari species.  Kind of like Elvhenan for elves, few would recognize the name anymore.  In fact, modern day qunari may not even physically resemble the ancient kossith, due to millenia of selective breeding.

 

Those who invaded Thedas in teh Steel Age were presumably all followers of the Qun, as they referred to themselves as "Qunari".  I don't think we know exactly when Koslun lived and founded teh Qunari way. 

 

Those who abandon the Qun are called Grey Ones, or "Vashoth".  Those who actively resist the Qun, rather than try to live apart from it, call themselves "Tal-Vashoth, "True Grey Ones. 

 

To the Qunari, they and the Vashoth/Tal-Vashoth are a completely different people.  But to outsiders, they're usually  just horned giants, called "qunari".  Whether they follow the Qun or not. 

[teenparty]

Maybe we should get Fenris and Tallis to form a team of experts on Quonari relations.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

"Kossith" is an archaic term for the qunari species.  Kind of like Elvhenan for elves, few would recognize the name anymore.  In fact, modern day qunari may not even physically resemble the ancient kossith, due to millenia of selective breeding.

 

Those who invaded Thedas in teh Steel Age were presumably all followers of the Qun, as they referred to themselves as "Qunari".  I don't think we know exactly when Koslun lived and founded teh Qunari way. 

 

Those who abandon the Qun are called Grey Ones, or "Vashoth".  Those who actively resist the Qun, rather than try to live apart from it, call themselves "Tal-Vashoth, "True Grey Ones. 

 

To the Qunari, they and the Vashoth/Tal-Vashoth are a completely different people.  But to outsiders, they're usually  just horned giants, called "qunari".  Whether they follow the Qun or not. 

 

This is true. Except "Elvhenan" was the name for a place not a people.

[Mister Gusty]

The first mention of "kossith," in WOT is in the timeline -

 

-410 Ancient - "A group of kossith is believed to land om the south Korcari Wilds, establishing a colony. They are likely killed off in the First Blight, giving rise to the first appearance of ogres on the continent"

 

What we know about the kossith race and their believes is pretty limited but in WOT, this is what it says about them -

 

"There was a time when the kossith race prayed to animist gods. They were wild then, devoted to a a chaos that kept them from greatness. Then came Ashkaari Koslun, a great thinker whose teachings molded the kossith into the godless, disciplined Qunari."

 

and

 

"When the Qun became law, the temples kossith built to honor their animist gods were destroyed, and their priests were reeducated or driven into exile."

 

By the time that the Qunari came to Par Vollen in 6:30 Steel, they were no longer considered kossith, if there are any it would be back from whatever land the Qunari originated from. The Tal Vashoth(a self given name meaning "True Grey") are former members of the Qunari people who actively fight against the Qun.

 

Vashoth is Qunlat(the Qunari language) for "grey", these are former members of the Qun who simply have abandoned the Qun but do not try to fight against it.

 

So all Vashoth would be either descendants of Tal Vashoth or of Vashoth.

[Torayuri]

Just listen to the Word of God/Wisdom of Gaider:

 

http://dgaider.tumbl...wain-shall-meet

[Potato Cat]

I have a Qunari question I may as well use this thread for. The Qunari symbol, which way is it meant to be? With the square at the top or the square at the bottom? I've always preferred it with the square at the bottom because then it seems to fit better with the whole wave motif in the Qun.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Kossith is a term that no longer applies to the Qunari. It would be similar to calling a Scandinavian people Vikings. It wasn't the name of their race, it was the name of their culture. The name of the race AND their culture is now Qunari (despite what some forumites might say).

 

The people that landed on Par Vollen was Qunari.

 

Vasoth is a person that has left the Qun.

 

Tal-Vasoth is a person who actively opposes the Qun, after having left it.

[EmperorSahlertz]

I have a Qunari question I may as well use this thread for. The Qunari symbol, which way is it meant to be? With the square at the top or the square at the bottom? I've always preferred it with the square at the bottom because then it seems to fit better with the whole wave motif in the Qun.

The square is usually at the top of the symbol.

[St. Victorious]

Kossith is a term that no longer applies to the Qunari. It would be similar to calling a Scandinavian people Vikings. It wasn't the name of their race, it was the name of their culture. The name of the race AND their culture is now Qunari (despite what some forumites might say).
 
The people that landed on Par Vollen was Qunari.
 
Vasoth is a person that has left the Qun.
 
Tal-Vasoth is a person who actively opposes the Qun, after having left it.

This. Kossith is a culture, not a race. A dead culture at that.

[Far Wanderer]

Kossith is a term that no longer applies to the Qunari. It would be similar to calling a Scandinavian people Vikings. It wasn't the name of their race, it was the name of their culture. The name of the race AND their culture is now Qunari (despite what some forumites might say).

 

The people that landed on Par Vollen was Qunari.

 

Vasoth is a person that has left the Qun.

 

Tal-Vasoth is a person who actively opposes the Qun, after having left it.

 

Thank you for your simple and straightforward answer. Loved your Viking example.

[SerCambria358]

I have a Qunari question I may as well use this thread for. The Qunari symbol, which way is it meant to be? With the square at the top or the square at the bottom? I've always preferred it with the square at the bottom because then it seems to fit better with the whole wave motif in the Qun.

 

The square is usually at the top of the symbol.

Yup on the top

 

Whats also interesting is if you look at the top part of it you can make out a square and if you follow it down there are 3 squares in total which i think represent the three branches of the Triumvirate. (Even though i may be over thinking this) If this is true i think the symbol on the PC's forehead in this screen shot might tell us something about our past depedning on what part of the Qun that symbol represents 

[Knight of Dane]

Kossith is a term that no longer applies to the Qunari. It would be similar to calling a Scandinavian people Vikings. It wasn't the name of their race, it was the name of their culture. The name of the race AND their culture is now Qunari (despite what some forumites might say).

 

The people that landed on Par Vollen was Qunari.

 

Vasoth is a person that has left the Qun.

 

Tal-Vasoth is a person who actively opposes the Qun, after having left it.

I don't mind being called a viking!

[Tevinter Soldier]

Kossith is a term that no longer applies to the Qunari. It would be similar to calling a Scandinavian people Vikings. It wasn't the name of their race, it was the name of their culture. The name of the race AND their culture is now Qunari (despite what some forumites might say).

Actually we don't know if Kossith referred to a race or their culture it's completely unknown even to lord Gaider. (despite what many formers might say)

[In Exile]

Whats also interesting is if you look at the top part of it you can make out a square and if you follow it down there are 3 squares in total which i think represent the three branches of the Triumvirate. (Even though i may be over thinking this) If this is true i think the symbol on the PC's forehead in this screen shot might tell us something about our past depedning on what part of the Qun that symbol represents 

 

 

We don't know if those particular sets of paint would be available to the PC or not. They might only be there for proper qunari in-game. 

[SerCambria358]

We don't know if those particular sets of paint would be available to the PC or not. They might only be there for proper qunari in-game. 

I thought it was confirmed to be the PC qunari? I could be wrong

[Hellion Rex]

I thought it was confirmed to be the PC qunari? I could be wrong

It was indeed confirmed as such.

[Divine Justinia V]

I thought it was confirmed to be the PC qunari? I could be wrong

 

That's what I remember as well.

[TurretSyndrome]

The word Qunari has only one meaning, that is "follower of Qun". Despite what some people here might say, it is not the name of the race. It is used by the ignorant humans of the Thedas to refer to the race as the whole, but it is incorrect. No Qunari will ever allow a Tal-Vashoth or a Vashoth being called a Qunari, and no Tal-Vashoth or a Vashoth will want to be classified as a Qunari. Play DA 2 if you want evidence.

 

There is officially no biological identifier for the race itself. This is why some of us like to use Kossith rather than Qunari since, Qunari is already under heavy use as an identifier for the religion itself. So as of right now:

 

Kossith: Antiquated term, used to denote an archaic culture which may or may not exist now. Used as a biological identifier of the "horned ones" race by some fans and developers(apparently from WoT).

 

Qunari: Followers of Qun regardless of race. Use race prefix to identify race of the Qunari. Ex: Human Qunari, Elf Qunari, even Kossith Qunari.

 

Tal-Vashoth: Presumed to be Kossith who have broken away from the Qun and actively fight against it, but also not limited to it. Some band together as mercenaries, others just terrorize travelers in areas around their camps.

 

Vashoth: Presumed to be Kossith who have either broken away from the Qun or are born outside of it but do not engage in terrorism like the Tal-Vashoth or actively hunt Qunari.

[Tevinter Soldier]

All so Tal-Vashoth is a slang term the Qunari do not recognise Tal-Vashoth to Qunari there is only Vashoth.

The Qun does not recognise the difference wether. The do not agree with their or if they actively oppose the Qun. All Vashoth have simply swayed from the Qun and must be brought back and be "re-educated"

[EmperorSahlertz]

Qunari IS the name of the race that was given to them by the people of Thedas. The Qunari themselves have no such denominator. To them such a distinction would be meaningless. You are either Qunari or you are not.

Tal-Vasoth is very much a term recognized by the Qunari themselves, as is proven by Sten, Talis and the Kont-ar Seer.

And Tal-Vasoth DO actively oppose the Qun, that is the SINGLE thing that distinguish them from the Vasoth. Just like Vasoth MUST have left the Qun, which is the single distinguishing factor from them and Bas.

Since Kossith CERTAINLY isn't the name of the race anymore, it can now only be used to refer to a died-out culture.

[Tevinter Soldier]

Tal-Vashoth literally means true grey ones
Where as Vashoth means grey ones.

The designation is quite clear it's an indication that it is the Qunari are the ones who are going about things incorrectly

It's taking pride in being Vashoth.
Clearly there's is subtext that vashoth is on some level derogatory.,

hence the "True" prefex is taking that term and twisting it to reflect they don't see anything wrong with being Vashoth.

Why the hell would the Qunari formally recognise the term? To a Qunari (as in follower of the Qun) they are simply Vashoth there is only the Qun by walking away from the Qun you are vashoth "grey ones"

Only a vashoth would make a distinction between rejecting the Qun and actively opposing it.

As for Kossith we don't know wether the term was a designation for the race or the culture, so it's incorrect to say it can only apply to the culture expressly because it may never have referred to the culture at all.

This is straight from Gaider. There was even a blog post on it. It's an out dated term but there is nothing expressly incorrect about using it for race or culture.

The same as Qunari can be used to describe both the race and culture, the only difference is that in universe nobody would be aware of the term during the dragon age. As gamers we are not restricted to only using terms that exist in the dragon age.

As long as somebody understands what your saying it is certainly reasonable to use the term Kossith to describe both the race and former culture of the horned race of the Qunari. Don't be such a stickler.

[EmperorSahlertz]

All we know is that the Qunari DO make the distinction between Vasoth and Tal-Vasoth. Probably because Tal-Vasoth continues to be an active threat to Qunari. whereas they see Vasoth as only weakness leaving the Qun. Therefore there is a meaningful distinction to be made between the two.

 

We KNOW that Kossith is an archaic term, and is NOT the name of the race. Therefore it cannot be sued anymore as a denominator for the race. Therefore all it can reference to is the ancient culture that Kossith must have lived in.

 

It is equally incorrect to keep using the term Kossith as it is to use the term Viking, Celt or Gaul. It is a historical term, and can only be used in historical context.

[Tevinter Soldier]

I get your point with exception of the term Viking as Viking was never a race or culture Viking is a Germanic term basically meaning to raid or pillage. It would be Norse or Northmen your after. Yet Nordic is still an appropriate term

Now culturally Nordic people are no longer Germanic by designation but it is not incorrect to label people from northern Europe as Nordic. Germanic was the cultural name
Nordic is racial/geographical designation.

Likewise Gaul was never an actual race of people nor were Celts, they are absolutely cultural designations.

And as Kossith is being used to denote physical traits it is only incorrect if your addressing an actual Qunari as Kossith. And that is because Qunari have no knowledge of the term, they would look at you weird.

But as I said we are aware of the term and are not bound to only using term's found in the common practice in the dragon age.