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[In Exile]

Alright, I didn't remember that.

 

Pretty much every human mage we need whose name isn't Morrigan seems to believe in the Maker. The Dalish obviously don't, but that's only because they believe in their own gods. 

[Cobra's_back]

Saving Irving Broken Circle

 

 

Enchanter Irving’s exact words to the warden were: “I am glad you arrive when you did. It’s almost as though the Maker himself sent you.”

 

 

 

I pretty much thought he believed in the Maker.

[SwobyJ]

Eh, I say a lot of God stuff like that, but still just treat him as mythology.

I figured Irving to be at most a passive believer. Sometimes in cultures, you just go with something by default.

[Mockingword]

^ Yeah, I say "Jesus Christ" all the time just on this forum, but that doesn't mean I believe he existed.

 

When a religion is so omnipresent in a particular culture, religious terms will spill over into the vocabulary of secular individuals.

[naddaya]

I would no more say all Andraste-ins are arrogant and self-righteous than I would say all elves are arrogant and self-righteous (though I'm inclined to think the elves deserve the attributes more).

Oh don't worry, I call the Dalish arrogant and self-righteous too, moreso than Andrastians xD

[tmp7704]

^ Yeah, I say "Jesus Christ" all the time just on this forum, but that doesn't mean I believe he existed.
 
When a religion is so omnipresent in a particular culture, religious terms will spill over into the vocabulary of secular individuals.

But do you also tell people stuff like "God bless you" or "May God watch over you" or "Thank God x happened" and such? Because it's quite different use than just "oh God" or "Jesus" like you mention.

[Mockingword]

But do you also tell people stuff like "God bless you" or "May God watch over you" or "Thank God x happened" and such? Because it's quite different use than just "oh God" or "Jesus" like you mention.

I say "thank god" when crises are averted. And someone ALWAYS says "bless you" whenever I sneeze. I don't say it to other people, because I'm ill-mannered.

[In Exile]

Eh, I say a lot of God stuff like that, but still just treat him as mythology.

I figured Irving to be at most a passive believer. Sometimes in cultures, you just go with something by default.

 

I'm as atheist as they come and use insults revolving around religion, or use a phrase like "thank god", but I don't say "It was literally the hand of God that must have brought you before me". That's very different IMO. I wouldn't even think to say something like that. 

[SwobyJ]

"It's as if God himself blessed you" is a kind of line I've often heard where I'm from.

 

The 'as if/as though' part changes everything, which might be why you didn't include it in your post.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

What does this have to do with the Thedasian religions? 

[In Exile]

"It's as if God himself blessed you" is a kind of line I've often heard where I'm from.

 

The 'as if/as though' part changes everything, which might be why you didn't include it in your post.

 

It really doesn't. The "it's as if" part doesn't carry a secular meaning, or change the phrase to a secular one. Things like "bless you" when you sneeze are things we just say, meaning "feel better" or whatever. The perfection of this moment appears to be something that only a divine omnipotent and benevolent being would create is a wholly different type of sentiment. It's pretty much saying "this is a miracle", only the tenor isn't "lucky fluke" but "moment of awe". 

[SwobyJ]

The "it's as if" part doesn't carry a secular meaning, or change the phrase to a secular one.

 

I didn't say it did. I said it changes everything. Irving saying that line doesn't tell us one thing about his belief or disbelief in the Maker, except that he at least understands the existence of belief in him.

 

"It's as if a biblical flood hit this town today, Jim." -News Anchor

 

It's...as if you can't comprehend that someone can be spiritual and acknowledge the beliefs of religions in their conversations, while also not being part of said religion. "Moment of awe" is also even literally said by plenty of atheist scientists.

[iggy4566]

I'd wish both atheist and religious folk would just stop bitching.

[In Exile]

I didn't say it did. I said it changes everything. Irving saying that line doesn't tell us one thing about his belief or disbelief in the Maker, except that he at least understands the existence of belief in him.

 

"It's as if a biblical flood hit this town today, Jim." -News Anchor

 

It's...as if you can't comprehend that someone can be spiritual and acknowledge the beliefs of religions in their conversations, while also not being part of said religion. "Moment of awe" is also even literally said by plenty of atheist scientists.

 

The flood line isn't the same thing at all, because you're not referencing the omnipotence of God, or any other divine characteristic. You're referencing a biblical story to get across the scale of a flood. Irving's line is about how the moment appears to be orchestrated by a benevolent architect. That goes far being just some vague spirituality or acknowledgement of religious belief. 

 

When scientists use "awe", they're referring it to nature, which is a pretty big and dramatic difference. It's like saying I love my dog. I understand the concept of love, and there's a reason I'm using the word "love", but I obviously don't mean romantic feelings. 

[SwobyJ]

The flood line isn't the same thing at all, because you're not referencing the omnipotence of God, or any other divine characteristic. You're referencing a biblical story to get across the scale of a flood. Irving's line is about how the moment appears to be orchestrated by a benevolent architect. That goes far being just some vague spirituality or acknowledgement of religious belief. 

 

When scientists use "awe", they're referring it to nature, which is a pretty big and dramatic difference. It's like saying I love my dog. I understand the concept of love, and there's a reason I'm using the word "love", but I obviously don't mean romantic feelings. 

 

Yeah I'm done here.

[AlanC9]

I'm as atheist as they come and use insults revolving around religion, or use a phrase like "thank god", but I don't say "It was literally the hand of God that must have brought you before me". That's very different IMO. I wouldn't even think to say something like that.

Irving didn't say "literally" either, did he?

[SwobyJ]

Irving didn't say "literally" either, did he?

 

And that kind of thing is why I'm done.

 

After this post.

[Cobra's_back]

What does this have to do with the Thedasian religions? 

 

Nothing. A few post have really moved to a different direction. I think I read one post define religion in Western Societies as focused on the end of days. 

 

Seriously, This doesn't belong in a BioWare post and is not related to the original poster's suggestion. 

[Mockingword]

He existed. That's considered fact. What's debatable is whether or not the Christian gospels contain any truth.

A lot of things are considered fact by someone.

 

ANYWAY, how about that Maker?

[Cobra's_back]

Irving didn't say "literally" either, did he?

Hear was his exact words:

 

Saving Irving Broken Circle

 

 

Enchanter Irving’s exact words to the warden were: “I am glad you arrive when you did. It’s almost as though the Maker himself sent you.”

 

 

Take it anyway you want. 

[Cobra's_back]

I believe that BioWare has been neutral showing positive and negative aspects and will continue to do so. Which should answers the OP concerns.

 

 

 

I also think this thread shouldn't be about religion itself.

 

 

I'm sure making this about religion is a good way to get it shut down.

[In Exile]

Irving didn't say "literally" either, did he?

 

That's how the phrase reads to me, given his other comments regarding the Maker and, moreover, his tone when he says it.