94 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryriena]

I can't believe people enjoyed the Citadel coup arc. The Ambassador's somehow turned traitor to overthrow the government during a war. I mean, how did he have time to get that evidence against me the Salarians government official died. Then, having my LI point a gun at me... Since, I have both Garrus and James with me two people who could help me out but chose too stay out of it. I mean, why in the heck would I shoot the person my Shepard loves or considers a friend? You then encourage people by using the renegade button to shoot Ash/Kaiden.... That whole scene is mind blogging stupid. Why would the person I love pull a gun on me, I can understand a friend doing that but my lover? The whole trust issues arc with Kaiden and Ashely was badly written.

[Fixers0]

But I think they should have said Udina is indoctrinated, just like cerberus. Because his plan is rather idiotic and only the reapers profit from it.

 

Because character's just being lolindoctrinated is such a good example of storytelling.

[Barquiel]

It isn't. But at least it would explain his actions.

[Ryriena]

Because character's just being lolindoctrinated is such a good example of storytelling.

Because that would make more sense that he betrayed us just because he felt like it. I hate the indoctrination route as well it felt way cheep with TIm since to me he was an engaging villain that seemed way less than one dimensional.

[Fixers0]

Because that would make more sense that he betrayed us just because he felt like it. I hate the indoctrination route as well it felt way cheep with TIm since to me he was an engaging villain that seemed way less than one dimensional.

 

I agree, One of the biggest weaknesses of the Mass Effect universe is the lack of idealogical antagonist, the vast majority of the enemies shepard faces are hired guns, brainless monsters and mindcontrolled slaves.

[Ryriena]

I agree, One of the biggest weaknesses of the Mass Effect universe is the lack of idealogical antagonist, the vast majority of the enemies shepard faces are hired guns, brainless monsters and mindcontrolled slaves.

I liked the way in ME2 he seemed like an worthy Antagonist to Shepard. I would've compared him too Saren but they went down the lol route with him too...

[AlanC9]

I mean, why in the heck would I shoot the person my Shepard loves or considers a friend? You then encourage people by using the renegade button to shoot Ash/Kaiden.... That whole scene is mind blogging stupid. Why would the person I love pull a gun on me, I can understand a friend doing that but my lover? The whole trust issues arc with Kaiden and Ashely was badly written.

Wait... you're saying that A/K should automatically trust Shepard no matter what?

[ImaginaryMatter]

I agree, One of the biggest weaknesses of the Mass Effect universe is the lack of idealogical antagonist, the vast majority of the enemies shepard faces are hired guns, brainless monsters and mindcontrolled slaves.

 

I thought Saren somewhat fit this bill. Up until we discovered that he was Indoctrinated his plan was somewhat sympathetic, surrender instead of extinction, which made it all the more tragic when we found out that his mind had been subverted and that the Indoctrination truly made him believe what he was doing was right.

[Ryriena]

Wait... you're saying that A/K should automatically trust Shepard no matter what?

No, I'm saying make it make sense and show them mistrust Shepard in game 1. You know instead have them question stealing the Normandy

[Ryriena]

I thought Saren somewhat fit this bill. Up until we discovered that he was Indoctrinated his plan was somewhat sympathetic, surrender instead of extinction, which made it all the more tragic when we found out that his mind had been subverted and that the Indoctrination truly made him believe what he was doing was right.

But the thing is they made him believable, they did not with the Tim...

[FlyingSquirrel]

I think humans probably roughly break even in terms of their reputation by the end of the war. They'd suffer from Udina's treachery and the fact that a human extremist group tried to subvert the war effort, but Hackett and Shepard also really took the lead in getting all the species together and getting the Crucible completed.

[SporkFu]

The struggle for human interests/dominance was always uphill. And duh, the Alliance has a rather limited presence overall - regardless of Shepard's proportion of human-centric locations he visits.

That was really driven home for me when the turian councilor comes to Udina's office to tell shep that his spectre status was been upheld/re-instated. Why couldn't they have let Udina do that? 

[AlanC9]

No, I'm saying make it make sense and show them mistrust Shepard in game 1. You know instead have them question stealing the Normandy

 

Well, I'm sure the next time Bio writes a third game in a series they'll retroactively rewrite the first game and make it better too.

 

Anyway, the two situations are unrelated. In ME1 the VS knew exactly what Shepard was up to and why. Not the case in ME3.

[SwobyJ]

That was really driven home for me when the turian councilor comes to Udina's office to tell shep that his spectre status was been upheld/re-instated. Why couldn't they have let Udina do that? 

 

Yep. Udina is scrambling to bring resources together, calm human society enough to continue with...anything, and urging the Council to do bloody anything about the Reapers beyond a badly organized conventional war (if the Reapers are even to be beaten conventionally, it won't be through traditional tactics).

 

But they stonewall him whenever they can, only budging at all when the Reaper invade, and then finally contribute anything after the Coup itself.

 

I have no problem with Udina working with Cerberus. I don't like how it was paced out/told, and I think we needed at least one good scene hinting it between our first meeting with Udina, and the Coup, as well as a more reliable basis on Cerberus having their own plan that could work and convince others of, than "Hey we think we can control the Reapers, join us."

[SporkFu]

Yep. Udina is scrambling to bring resources together, calm human society enough to continue with...anything, and urging the Council to do bloody anything about the Reapers beyond a badly organized conventional war (if the Reapers are even to be beaten conventionally, it won't be through traditional tactics).

 

But they stonewall him whenever they can, only budging at all when the Reaper invade, and then finally contribute anything after the Coup itself.

 

I have no problem with Udina working with Cerberus. I don't like how it was paced out/told, and I think we needed at least one good scene hinting it between our first meeting with Udina, and the Coup, as well as a more reliable basis on Cerberus having their own plan that could work and convince others of, than "Hey we think we can control the Reapers, join us."

Taking all that into account, they did a pretty good job of setting Udina up to be ripe for the picking (by Cerberus). But even then, if you don't take the whole trilogy into account, it'd be tough to accept him as a turncoat. But I agree, there should have been something more in-between. Maybe even a big reveal when Udina finally realizes he's done (one way or the other) during the standoff with the VS. All we get is a shifty, "oh gee is that the time?" when you talk to him about the VS becoming a spectre. 

 

What if the coup had been attempted after Thessia instead of after Tuchanka?  

[SwobyJ]

But even then, if you don't take the whole trilogy into account

 

Yeah that's the case with a lot of stuff.

 

 

Hmm, I also wonder how Thessia could have affected this.

[SporkFu]

Yeah that's the case with a lot of stuff.

 

 

Hmm, I also wonder how Thessia could have affected this.

I guess they'd have to come up with a way for you to lose, so that the citadel could be taken to earth. All the other little fetch quests and meet-ups could fairly easily take place before the coup, so i don't see that being a problem... Maybe the coup attempt isn't over when you go to Horizon chasing after Kai Leng, and he becomes a decoy instead to get you off the station. Ah well, I try and rewrite the game all the time in my head. 

[themikefest]

I guess they'd have to come up with a way for you to lose, so that the citadel could be taken to earth. All the other little fetch quests and meet-ups could fairly easily take place before the coup, so i don't see that being a problem... Maybe the coup attempt isn't over when you go to Horizon chasing after Kai Leng, and he becomes a decoy instead to get you off the station. Ah well, I try and rewrite the game all the time in my head. 

I've done the same a number of times of rewriting the game in my head. Some of the idea's I laugh at and others I would be curious how they would play out. I'm sure when I start ME3 later tonight I will come up with another way to rewrite the game.

[nevar00]

I think it would have worked better if they went along with the original script where Kasumi and Thane are squaddies and you haz to stop Udina from sacrificing the Hanar home world.

 

Are you serious?  This was the original plan for Udina?

 

We could've had a Hanar homeplanet mission with Thane and Kasumi instead of a crap invasion by Cerberus and Udina going full retard.  This just makes it even worse...

[AlanC9]

Are you serious?  This was the original plan for Udina?
 
We could've had a Hanar homeplanet mission with Thane and Kasumi instead of a crap invasion by Cerberus and Udina going full retard.  This just makes it even worse...

Nobody said anything about a mission to the hanar homeworld.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

Because character's just being lolindoctrinated is such a good example of storytelling.

Except Udina was never indoctrinated. Suspected because of his actions, but seeing as Udina openly sought out Cerberus' aid in trying to take over, so that something could be done about Earth. He was just an extraordinarily stupid and desperate man.

 

Because that would make more sense that he betrayed us just because he felt like it. I hate the indoctrination route as well it felt way cheep with TIm since to me he was an engaging villain that seemed way less than one dimensional.

Except its not lolindoctrination as you claim it to be. TIM has been Indoctrinated since First Contact War. Pretty much everything that lead him to starting Cerberus in the first place came from the Evolution comic series.

[Orikon]

I maintain that the Citadel Coup is one of the worst-written missions in the game.

 

Priority:Earth is worse.

After all,except for the VS,the mission itself wasn't that bad. Fighting on the Presidium against Cerberus was just fine by mine,and the mission did its "Wow!" factor quite good since you had no idea Cerberus would try to take control of the Citadel.

 

There's also the part where the VS was with Udina the entire time while evading Cerberus. How exactly would Udina have gotten that evidence?

 

Udina was working with the Illusive Man,we can assume that Kai Leng sent him the false evidence after Shepard stopped him from killing the Salarian Councilor.

[Ryriena]

He killed many reaper allies, oh and openly opposed them. Yeah, he was so Indoctrinated that they allowed him so much leeway? They went with the lolindoctration route with him to explain the behavior in ME3. Can't believe people are defending bad writing.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

He killed many reaper allies, oh and openly opposed them. Yeah, he was so Indoctrinated that they allowed him so much leeway? They went with the lolindoctration route with him to explain the behavior in ME3. Can't believe people are defending bad writing.

He was indoctrinated during First Contact in Evolution, which also predates ME3

 

Your argument is invalid.

[Ryriena]

No it's not invalid, to me comic books don't need this medium for games.....