187 réponses à ce sujet

[DrBlingzle]

Simple question, how do you think homosexuality is treated in the Qun?

 

Different gendered relations in the Qun are prohibited, but this is mainly down to the worry that such a relationship could produce a less than adequate child who would be a waste of resources. Due to the fact that that could never happen in a same-sex relationship would a homosexual relationship be prohibited as well? Of course it could be prohibited because the Tamassrans believe any sort of relationship could get in the way of one's duty to the Qun.

 

Anyway, thoughts? 

[wcholcombe]

Considering followers of the Qun don't seem to have a concept of love and that sex is selective breeding and you don't raise your children and seem to have no societal concept of love.....I doubt it occurs or is allowed.

 

Considering the Qun is built largely on discipline and fulfilling your role in society, I predict a high level of celibacy probably exists outside of breeding purposes.

[Reznore57]

There's not really "sexuality" in the Qun.There's only breeding.

[Exaltation]

Obviously having relationship with same gender will be a waste of time as no "resources" are produced lol,also they're sent to be "reeducated" by the Ben-Hassrath,same goes for heterosexuals,should they have sex,like selective breeding.

The Qun are pretty much robots,set to do specific things,and the Ben-Hassrath is the engineer that fixes the defected robots lol,and should someone go AWOL they're to be killed on sight.

[jedicam10]

Homosexuality would be purposeless within the Qun. Gay sex does not breed offspring and would be a waste. And Qunari do not waste.

[Grieving Natashina]

Considering followers of the Qun don't seem to have a concept of love and that sex is selective breeding and you don't raise your children and seem to have no societal concept of love.....I doubt it occurs or is allowed.

 

Considering the Qun is built largely on discipline and fulfilling your role in society, I predict a high level of celibacy probably exists outside of breeding purposes.

That is just not true.  They have deep feelings and do love, but they don't show it physically.  They do and can love each other, but their culture works differently than ours.  The children are still raised by elders, just not their own birth parents.  They do have a family with their peers and form relationships that are every bit as meaningful as any conventional family in Thedas.  Sten had strong feelings of brotherhood with his other Quanri scouts that came with him, which is proven if you do his Fade sequence during Broken Circle.

 

For adults, you can have romantic love without sex.  There is several asexual forum posters that have repeatedly said as such.  Anyway, to address your question Doc, I really don't think it's an issue due to selective breeding.   There might be Quanri that are attracted to men, but we're talking a culture that separates love and sex very thoroughly. 

[AlanC9]

But conversely, that means that recreational sex, with whatever gender, is conceptually no more of a problem than any other form of recreation would be.

[MrMrPendragon]

Homosexuality would be purposeless within the Qun. Gay sex does not breed offspring and would be a waste. And Qunari do not waste.

Yep, I'm going with this too.

The Qunari are too strict and too disciplined to do anything that doesn't benefit their society.

[DrBlingzle]

Considering followers of the Qun don't seem to have a concept of love and that sex is selective breeding and you don't raise your children and seem to have no societal concept of love.....I doubt it occurs or is allowed.

Considering the Qun is built largely on discipline and fulfilling your role in society, I predict a high level of celibacy probably exists outside of breeding purposes.

Actually Mary Kirby did a post on this.
http://forum.bioware...nari/?p=3294715

They feel love. They have friends. They form emotional bonds with one another. They just don't sleep with each other to express it. And if they do, they get re-educated by the Ben-Hassrath.

While most followers of the qun don't express love through sex, it's possible that some might. Mark said that if they did they would be re-educated but this could just be done out of fear that such a relationship could produce a child with no skill in anything. There would be no such fear if it was a homosexual relationship.

[thats1evildude]

Qunari who form relationships are sent for re-education. I imagine that's the case for straight or gay couples.

[Faerlyte]

Well, if the game were going to be true to the nature of animals, there would be a lot of homosexuality being practiced, because, strict ideologies aside, they are animals like anything else and the the drive for sexual reproduction is, and shall always be, one of the strongest instincts any animal possesses. Given that they cannot simply procreate with the opposite sex as it would go against their code, there's only one other alternative for satisfying that need. 

 

Strict codes and ideology do not re-format one's instincts. It would be very stressful indeed. Celibacy is not normal, or healthy, for any animal. 

[Jazinto]

Rules and laws have never stopped homosexual behaviour from happening. As long as there is same-sex attraction there is same-sex behaviour. (Or maybe not even attraction is needed. Some people argue men having sex with other men in the military or in prison don't even have to be gay or bisexual just aroused.)

[wcholcombe]

That is just not true.  They have deep feelings and do love, but they don't show it physically.  They do and can love each other, but their culture works differently than ours.  The children are still raised by elders, just not their own birth parents.  They do have a family with their peers and form relationships that are every bit as meaningful as any conventional family in Thedas.  Sten had strong feelings of brotherhood with his other Quanri scouts that came with him, which is proven if you do his Fade sequence during Broken Circle.

 

For adults, you can have romantic love without sex.  There is several asexual forum posters that have repeatedly said as such.  Anyway, to address your question Doc, I really don't think it's an issue due to selective breeding.   There might be Quanri that are attracted to men, but we're talking a culture that separates love and sex very thoroughly. 

A feeling of brotherhood is not the same thing as romantic love.  I played the fade with Sten and saw the scene you refer to, but that isn't romantic love.  Also, the children aren't raised by elders, they are raised by what are basically women priests, but it isn't a parent child type of dynamic.  It is like they are sent off to a private school at birth.

 

The qunari don't practice affection as others on Thedas do. Sten says as much.  They don't truly even have a concept of personal identity or property. Sten isn't even sten's name, its his rank.  "Stop teasing the Sten". Sure Sten has his sword, but he says it isn't a thing he owns but a part of his body.

So no, while we don't know, what we do know leads me to believe that Qunari practice a very duty and service life style and I do not expect that Qunari society allows for hetero or ****** sexual relationships outside of breeding purposes.

[Grieving Natashina]

Yep, I'm going with this too.

The Qunari are too strict and too disciplined to do anything that doesn't benefit their society.

Just wanted to point out the amount of sex, or lack thereof, has little to do with romantic attraction.  One can be a gay man, for instance, being attracted to and only love men romantically, but doesn't use sex to express it. 

[DrBlingzle]

Rules and laws have never stopped homosexual behaviour from happening. As long as there is same-sex attraction there is same-sex behaviour. 

I agree, but I was wondering about what the Qun's stance on it would be.

[calvinien]

Qunari don't have sex for any reason except breeding. So in that respect it is impossible. Any qunari found doing so, regardless of gender would be reeducated.

As for non sexual love? Talk to sten sometime after you find his sword. Apparently Kadan is qunlat for 'where the heart lies'. he's essentially referred to the warden in the exact same terms that a romanced merril does hawke.

 

Mary Kirby said (possibly in jest) that your relationship with sten could be considered a romance. I'd say with regard to a qunari caring for someone more than anyone else as a definition of love....then gender would be no issue. In fact it would be easier to pull off with a same gendered person since they would both have the same tasks.

[thats1evildude]

Rules and laws have never stopped homosexual behaviour from happening. As long as there is same-sex attraction there is same-sex behaviour. (Or maybe not even attraction is needed, depending on your opinion on rape in the military or in prison.)

 

And it would be regarded as an aberration.

 

Are we debating whether the qunari can be gay, or whether homosexuality is tolerated in the Qun? I think the answer to the first question is probably "yes," but the answer to the second question is an emphatic "no."

[Former_Fiend]

I'd imagine homosexuality in the qun is treated the same as any sexuality in the qun is treated; with reeducation camps.

 

The Qun doesn't want anyone expressing sexuality for the purposes of pleasure or love. Sex is preformed only for procreation and only at the behest of the priesthood.

 

Now, in terms of romantic but non sexual relationships, I doubt that the qun sees gender as an object.

[wcholcombe]

Actually Mark Kirby did a post on this.

http://forum.bioware...nari/?p=3294715

 

While most followers of the qun don't express love through sex, it's possible that some might. Mark said that if they did they would be re-educated but this could just be done out of fear that such a relationship could produce a child with no skill in anything. There would be no such fear if it was a homosexual relationship.  

Sorry I was referring to love in the sense you were asking.  If they don't express love though sex, why would they express it under same sex relationships?  And the fact that it is said that they reeducate those who do sleep together, it leads to the idea that indeed it wouldn't be tolerated irregardless of sexual orientation.

[King Cousland]

Actually Mark Kirby did a post on this.

http://forum.bioware...nari/?p=3294715

 

While most followers of the qun don't express love through sex, it's possible that some might. Mark said that if they did they would be re-educated but this could just be done out of fear that such a relationship could produce a child with no skill in anything. There would be no such fear if it was a homosexual relationship.  

 

Is Mark Kirby a relation of Mary Kirby by any chance? 

[KainD]

To be fair, if Qunari expressed love through sex, Qun would be THE place for homosexuality, seeing how there is such a big gender segregation. 

[Grieving Natashina]

A feeling of brotherhood is not the same thing as romantic love.  I played the fade with Sten and saw the scene you refer to, but that isn't romantic love.  Also, the children aren't raised by elders, they are raised by what are basically women priests, but it isn't a parent child type of dynamic.  It is like they are sent off to a private school at birth.

 

The qunari don't practice affection as others on Thedas do. Sten says as much.  They don't truly even have a concept of personal identity or property. Sten isn't even sten's name, its his rank.  "Stop teasing the Sten". Sure Sten has his sword, but he says it isn't a thing he owns but a part of his body.

So no, while we don't know, what we do know leads me to believe that Qunari practice a very duty and service life style and I do not expect that Qunari society allows for hetero or ****** sexual relationships outside of breeding purposes.

 

I also read the same thing you did.  I noticed that these women priests acted a lot like like teachers and guides, which sounds a lot like a parent to me.  Hmm, the other children in the area being raised together?  Where everyone looks out for each other, encourages each other and sometimes bickers?  That sounds like a family.

 

I even said that they weren't sexual.  They might not be physically affectionate, but you don't need to be to express love.  I know Qunari go by title, and I know all of that about Sten's sword.  You're still not showing me how one Quanri is incapable of loving another romantically, only talking about things about their culture that I already knew.  Mary Kirby herself even said that the Quanri love, just don't use sex to express it.

 

I came to the exact opposite conclusion that you did, after reading World of Thedas.  

[Faerlyte]

The Qun is completely moronic if they don't want anyone expressing sexuality. Their entire ideology would fall apart because that is not feasible. And most of them would not be adhering to it either, if that truly was a demand of the Qun.

 

They are animals and you cannot repress natural instincts to such a degree without massive repercussions.  It would be entirely practical for them to have some outlet of relieving sexual frustration, I don't care how strict and 'disciplined' they are. It would be foolish to expect anyone to deny their natural impulses. 

[KainD]

The Qun is completely moronic if they don't want anyone expressing sexuality. Their entire ideology would fall apart because that is not feasible. And most of them would not be adhering to it either, if that truly was a demand of the Qun.

 

They are animals and you cannot repress natural instincts to such a degree without massive repercussions.  It would be entirely practical for them to have some outlet of relieving sexual frustration, I don't care how strict and 'disciplined' they are. It's completely unnatural to expect anyone to deny their natural impulses. 

 

What if they practice genital circumcision/mutilation and don't feel that much pleasure during sex? Many IRL religious societies do. 

[DrBlingzle]

 

 

I came to the exact opposite conclusion that you did, after reading World of Thedas.  

What did World of Thedas say exactly?