551 réponses à ce sujet

[TheLittleTpot]

After finally having gotten my butt into my comfiest chair to read The Masked Empire in one sitting, there is but one issue from this book that I wish to resolve. Picking a side in the Orlesian civil war, aiding Michel in his hunt for Imshael and the matter of the elven rebellion are mere trifles compared to this matter of grave import; we must be given the chance to play matchmaker so that Celene and Briala can kiss and make up!

 

I'm half-joking here, but there is a serious note to be had here. Knowing the setup of the story and the characters involved in this romance, I was well prepared for the possibility that it would end in either tragedy or a lost love of some sort, and despite this, the ending of the book still made me pout in mild disappointment.

 

Don't get me wrong. I don't think that every story should have a happy ending. Hell, in the Dragon Age universe, I'm surprised whenever something pleasant at all happens, but here's the thing; this is actually a trope regarding lesbian and gay romance stories; it almost always ends on a bitter-sweet, sad or downright tragic note. It worked incredibly well in regards to this particular story but it still made me frustrated, and I can't help but hope that we'll be able to somehow see a continuation to Celene and Briala's story that ends on a happy note.

 

I'm sorry if this post comes off as preachy. It was originally meant to be just a humorous jab consisting of the first paragraph but as I typed it out, I was reminded of all the lesbian love-stories I've read that end on a sad note. I'm aware that the romance was not necessarily central to The Masked Empire but it still helped immensely in setting the tone....but I'm still just so incredibly tired of encountering this trope of Gay romances meeting an unhappy ending. Maybe I'm just reading too much yuri manga.

[Gannayev of Dreams]

I'm not sure how you reconnect with a lover that had your parents murdered.  Even aside from that Briala had plenty of grievances against Celene that would preclude a happy relationship.  For Briala's side I don't think the woman she loved really existed.  There were just elements of what could be.

[jedicam10]

As the Inquisitor, I'll have nothing but indifference in regards to Briala and Celene getting back together. My focus will be on closing the rifts in the Veil and making Orlais a better place then when I found it. Between the three factions (Celene's, Gaspard's, and Briala's elves) I lean towards the city elves. They are the true victims of the civil war and gain to lose the most.

 

Celene's past relationship with Briala will be factor I'm sure. However by the end of TME, Celene has shown herself to be as ruthless as Gaspard but possibly worse, since at least he's bound by the chevalier's code. I'll always know where I stand with Gaspard while Celene could stab me in the back at any moment. Perhaps Briala can be used as leeway for or against Celene, but that's where my interest in their past relationship ends. 

[Former_Fiend]

I'm throwing my lot in with the naysayer ring here.

 

Even if their relationship was important enough for us to spend time trying to fix - it isn't - it isn't a relationship that should be fixed.

[dewayne31]

Well i got the vibe if you were human/elf Female you might be able to have a fkling or relationship jusyt my opinion.

[In Exile]

I'm not sure how you reconnect with a lover that had your parents murdered.  Even aside from that Briala had plenty of grievances against Celene that would preclude a happy relationship.  For Briala's side I don't think the woman she loved really existed.  There were just elements of what could be.

 

Personally, there would be no one that I could ever reconcile with (much less stop loathing) someone who for years was responsible for the death of my family and keep up a lie, basically, while ostensibly loving me. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

To be honest how many happy relationships we have in da setting?

 

Pretty much not many if we have such relationship at all.

 

And pretty much from what i heard it isn't very healthy relationship more leliana-marjolaine.

[wright1978]

Have to say after reading masked empire I have no desire to see Briala re-united with Celene.

[dewayne31]

Have to say after reading masked empire I have no desire to see Briala re-united with Celene.

i totally agree

[TheLittleTpot]

What I'm hoping for here is the possibility of their relationship being reconciled, through the player's choices. Celene should have, by the rules of the game, have had Briala killed along with her parents, but she didn't. She could have simply told her to go to the Dalish and left it at that but she didn't; she kissed her, just to show her that she cared about her, showing the readers that she's not as calculating and ruthless as she appears, and that at least gives me a little bit of hope....but then again, I'm a hopeless romantic.

[Former_Fiend]

She killed the woman's parents for a purely selfish reason and lied to her about it for twenty years. I can hardly imagine a greater violation of a person's trust.

[jedicam10]

What I'm hoping for here is the possibility of their relationship being reconciled, through the player's choices. Celene should have, by the rules of the game, have had Briala killed along with her parents, but she didn't. She could have simply told her to go to the Dalish and left it at that but she didn't; she kissed her, just to show her that she cared about her, showing the readers that she's not as calculating and ruthless as she appears, and that at least gives me a little bit of hope....but then again, I'm a hopeless romantic.

 

This is a nice sentiment. However, the problem I have with going into the Orlesian Civil War with the hopes of trying to repair their relationship is that it's such an inconsequential issue in the larger picture.

 

Gaspard, the most renown chevalier, an order sworn to protect the empire, has called for the death of his empress. In an attempt to assassinate her, he lured her out by forcing a revolt by city elves, knowing she'd have to massacre hundreds if not thousands of them to maintain her influence. She then went missing during the failed attempt and now most people in the capital of Val Royueax think she's dead. However in truth, she was alive and in an attempt to return to the throne, she and her elven handmaiden have discovered a network of ancient eluvians that give the city elves a chance to prolong the war and fight for their own freedom.

 

Where in all of this would you place "fixing the Empress and her handmaiden ex-lover's relationship" as a priority?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Briala and Celene also have diametrically opposed goals. Briala would have to give up trying to free her people from Orlesian rule or Celene would have to give up ruling Orlais or holding it together.

[TheLittleTpot]

Where in all of this would you place "fixing the Empress and her handmaiden ex-lover's relationship" as a priority?

Oh, I never said it was a priority, which is why I stressed the word possibility. The thing I love about the Bioware games is that we're often given the option to reach a favorable outcome in different ways. Reconciling Celene and Briala's relationship wouldn't be a necessary part of ending the civil war, it could just be an optional part of it, with it's own set of consequences, similar to the different ways you could recruit the Krogan in ME3.

[calvinien]

After finally having gotten my butt into my comfiest chair to read The Masked Empire in one sitting, there is but one issue from this book that I wish to resolve. Picking a side in the Orlesian civil war, aiding Michel in his hunt for Imshael and the matter of the elven rebellion are mere trifles compared to this matter of grave import; we must be given the chance to play matchmaker so that Celene and Briala can kiss and make up!

 

I'm half-joking here, but there is a serious note to be had here. Knowing the setup of the story and the characters involved in this romance, I was well prepared for the possibility that it would end in either tragedy or a lost love of some sort, and despite this, the ending of the book still made me pout in mild disappointment.

 

Don't get me wrong. I don't think that every story should have a happy ending. Hell, in the Dragon Age universe, I'm surprised whenever something pleasant at all happens, but here's the thing; this is actually a trope regarding lesbian and gay romance stories; it almost always ends on a bitter-sweet, sad or downright tragic note. It worked incredibly well in regards to this particular story but it still made me frustrated, and I can't help but hope that we'll be able to somehow see a continuation to Celene and Briala's story that ends on a happy note.

 

I'm sorry if this post comes off as preachy. It was originally meant to be just a humorous jab consisting of the first paragraph but as I typed it out, I was reminded of all the lesbian love-stories I've read that end on a sad note. I'm aware that the romance was not necessarily central to The Masked Empire but it still helped immensely in setting the tone....but I'm still just so incredibly tired of encountering this trope of Gay romances meeting an unhappy ending. Maybe I'm just reading too much yuri manga.

I know what you mean, but it will never happen. The business with Briala's parents is a dealbreaker. There is no way they can be together with that out there. I think the best we can hope for is them having some kind of reconciliation due to our actions in getting them to ally.

 

But I still wish you could get them together. I loved the pairing and really like both characters

The fact that the book takes the time to hammer in that they STILL love each other gets me every time I think about it. I'm seriously tearing up right now. Such an awesome book.

 

 

To be honest how many happy relationships we have in da setting?

 

Pretty much not many if we have such relationship at all.

 

And pretty much from what i heard it isn't very healthy relationship more leliana-marjolaine.

 

Not at all. Leliana/Marjolaine was an exploitive relationship between a terrible person and an expendable tool of theirs that was also kind of a terrible person. Celene/Briala is more ike a tragic romance. They both care about each other and want many of the same things bit circumstances force them apart.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Not at all. Leliana/Marjolaine was an exploitive relationship between a terrible person and an expendable tool of theirs that was also kind of a terrible person. Celene/Briala is more ike a tragic romance. They both care about each other and want many of the same things bit circumstances force them apart.

 

To be honest i think marjolene "cared" about leliana but her own ends were much more important for here so she betrayed leliana it was little more shown in LS.It seems be same here both may "care" about each other but they care more about their own ends and use each other like tools to reach own goals.

[jedicam10]

Oh, I never said it was a priority, which is why I stressed the word possibility. The thing I love about the Bioware games is that we're often given the option to reach a favorable outcome in different ways. Reconciling Celene and Briala's relationship wouldn't be a necessary part of ending the civil war, it could just be an optional part of it, with it's own set of consequences, similar to the different ways you could recruit the Krogan in ME3.

 

I suppose. But I think calvinien put it best. Their love is a tragic one. Where old circumstances made it difficult in the past, new revelations have made it impossible in the present. I don't see Briala ever going back to her old life and how could she? She went from seeing Celene has her closest friend to knowing she personally killed her parents. Plus, she's a rebel now, fighting the most powerful empire in Thedas. She can't exactly go back to being a handmaiden again. Even if she could, Orlesian nobles would make such a scandal of it, Celene would just be forced to prove her power over the eves all over again.

 

Maybe I'm thinking to hard on this. If people want to help the two back together again, have at it, I say. I, for one, care not for petty things like love in a world that is collapsing on itself.

[Former_Fiend]

I wouldn't quite compare Celene to Marjolane....

 

Actually, you know what, yea, I kinda would. If anything, Celene's worse.

 

I get why she does the things she does. From her perspective, at the very least, they're necessary. But that doesn't make her a decent human being. And her treatment of Briala is entirely selfish. You don't get to do that to someone; murder their family, and keep them on as your lover by keeping them in the dark and still be sympathetic.

[jedicam10]

I wouldn't quite compare Celene to Marjolane....

 

Actually, you know what, yea, I kinda would. If anything, Celene's worse.

 

I get why she does the things she does. From her perspective, at the very least, they're necessary. But that doesn't make her a decent human being. And her treatment of Briala is entirely selfish. You don't get to do that to someone; murder their family, and keep them on as your lover by keeping them in the dark and still be sympathetic.

 

A very god point indeed. This is the heart of why I won't trust Empress Celene.

 

EDIT: Well that and the whole debacle at Halamshiral.

[The dead fish]

I know what you feel, op. That reminds me of the Stolen throne. I was very upset when Marric killed his love, Katriel, while she was crying, begging silently for his forgiveness. I couldn't believe it. Loved that couple. Very tragic. Didn't expect that outcome. I was angry against Maric because he did the right thing as a king, I was angry against Loghain convincing Marric and for being so reasonable, so strong, imperturbable to the woman's plight . And David Gaider was awesome to make me feel that way. LOL ! Of course, after a few minutes I respected and loved even more Maric. 

 

Celene is indeed chilling and terrifying. Being able to lie for 20 years to her love about killing her family,and then making love with her everynight for years, acting as if nothing ever happened... ( otherwise she couldn't sleep with her if she had true remorse, and anyway she'd never tell anything if Briala didn't discover the truth ) 

 

 My inquisitor will monitor every single word that comes out from her mouth. I still don't know what I feel personally about Celene to be honest. I think she's a good ruler though. 

[TheLittleTpot]

I wouldn't quite compare Celene to Marjolane....

 

Actually, you know what, yea, I kinda would. If anything, Celene's worse.

 

I get why she does the things she does. From her perspective, at the very least, they're necessary. But that doesn't make her a decent human being. And her treatment of Briala is entirely selfish. You don't get to do that to someone; murder their family, and keep them on as your lover by keeping them in the dark and still be sympathetic.

Selfish to a point. Celene had every intention of allowing Briala to simply flee to the Dalish, but she came back to her so what was she to do?

[Former_Fiend]

Selfish to a point. Celene had every intention of allowing Briala to simply flee to the Dalish, but she came back to her so what was she to do?

 

Tell her the truth?

[jedicam10]

[TheLittleTpot]

Tell her the truth?

Ah, yeah, no. As righteous as it would be, you can't expect a person to be that virtuous. Just put yourself in her shoes.

[Ianamus]

I don't believe that they should get back together for a completely different reason: Briala completely betrayed Celene, not the other way around. 

 

What people seem to forget is that Celene was sixteen when she had Briala's parents murdered, recently orphaned, and was not in love with Briala at this point, or at least had not been for a very long time. 

 

Briala on the other hand, betrayed the woman she had "loved" for decades when she had promised to free her people, and genuinely planned to try to do so, deliberately made it so that the war in Orlais would be long and bloody, destroying everything Celene had worked for, all while being an adult, not a sixteen year old girl. 

 

That was bloody harsh. Sure Celene never told Briala the truth about killing her parents, but Briala actively trying to draw out the war and destory everything Celene worked towards after Celene had tried her best to help the elves numerous times was just painful to read. No way should Celene ever forgive her for such betrayal.