Well then she showed nobles that she bends to them and they are in control not she.She reminds me Dumar who feared do crap because of nobility wouldn't like that pretty much where his fear lead him or rather his head...
That's not how a monarchy works.
That's not how a monarchy works.
With weak leaders sure behlen and loghain managed do their thing even if loghain wasn't king celene couldn't.
With weak leaders sure behlen and loghain managed do their thing even if loghain wasn't king celene couldn't.
Behlen had support and an army of castless dwarves and warrior caste to back him. He could force it. Loghain was far from successful and was stuck in a civil war that was impasse.
If you have not notice, unless you have an army that can readily impose your will on every noble at once, you can't force you're rule on everyone.
As I pointed that not how a monarchy works. That would only start a civil war.
Do you even know how a monarchy works? A king/emperor or Queen/Empress only is in power by the allowance of the nobility. Their power is based on how many nobles are on their side or the army that backs them. Celcene held power in Orlias through the manipulation of the nobility. She has to compromise with them to keep that power or they will turn against her. Each noble has their own private army and fighting men that support her own private army. If the nobility turn against her they can easily make an army that surpasses hers. Losing their support is the last thing she want because she loses her power over her empire if that happens.
The power of any ruler is how many people are on their side. Nobles are just smaller monarchs.
If monarchy doesn't work in a way that allows you to achieve your goals, change the rules. Go straight to the people, to the soldiers, who couldn't care less which noble's banner they're flying so long as they've got full food stores for the winter.
Behlen had support and an army of castless dwarves and warrior caste to back him. He could force it. Loghain was far from successful and was stuck in a civil war that was impasse.
If you have not notice, unless you have an army that can readily impose your will on every noble at once, you can't force you're rule on everyone.
As I pointed that not how a monarchy works. That would only start a civil war.
Army of them? well he got their support and i doubt that was more than orzammar had he eliminated his enemies one way or another that was his strength.Loghain in fact perhaps brought civil war it was said many times he was winning pretty much reason that he lost was our protagonist.
As i said either you are weak ruler that bow to nobles or strong ruler that is in control and others bow to them. Pretty much not rly perhaps certain types of monarchy but absolute monarchy don't work like that. Pretty much she is weakling if you want use system as as an excuse your call.
The power of any ruler is how many people are on their side. Nobles are just smaller monarchs.
If monarchy doesn't work in a way that allows you to achieve your goals, change the rules. Go straight to the people, to the soldiers, who couldn't care less which noble's banner they're flying so long as they've got full food stores for the winter.
Of Course power of rule is based on how many people are on your side. You just not noting that the nobles have that ability, too. Each noble head of a family has their own private army and can equally go straight to the people for support as well.
Of Course Celene could do the same thing as well but with how slow travel can go, she would not be able to cover the majority of the empire with that message. Added not everyone would have the motivations she has. Also, the question if she would have full chevier support is also in question. It come down to it that she did not build her empire on the concept of force in her 20 years of ruler ship. It's based on manipulation.
Army of them? well he got their support and i doubt that was more than orzammar had he eliminated his enemies one way or another that was his strength.Loghain in fact perhaps brought civil war it was said many times he was winning pretty much reason that he lost was our protagonist.
As i said either you are weak ruler that bow to nobles or strong ruler that is in control and others bow to them. Pretty much not rly perhaps certain types of monarchy but absolute monarchy don't work like that. Pretty much she is weakling if you want use system as as an excuse your call.
1. His strength was he used any means to get to his goals. The nobles were not using castless as soldiers...He was. And a good portion of the warrior caste were fed up with the noble class. A change up in the laws of Osimar was going to happen one way or another. He was just at the right place and time and new how to manipulate it to his favor. And With Loghain we already know one way or another he was going to lose even if the warden was not there.
2.Again, that not how a monary work. The only way that can work is if you have an army that can impose on all the nobles at once. And remember each noble has an army of their own. History already show us that only lead to civil war.
Honestly I'm just annoyed. Politicians fail, and they blame the system they're working with for tying their hands. They succeed, however minor that success is, and they hail it as a victory.
Celene never accepts responsibility for anything she does wrong. She blames Gaspard, she blames the Game, she blames Mantillon. It's never her fault. She does what she has to do. It's never her fault.
And I'm tired of it.
1. His strength was he used any means to get to his goals. The nobles were not using castless as soldiers...He was. And a good portion of the warrior caste were fed up with the noble class. A change up in the laws of Osimar was going to happen one way or another. He was just at the right place and time and new how to manipulate it to his favor. And With Loghain we already know one way or another he was going to lose even if the warden was not there.
2.Again, that not how a monary work. The only way that can work is if you have an army that can impose on all the nobles at once. And remember each noble has an army of their own. History already show us that only lead to civil war.
1.Still castless don't outnumber orzamar army i rather doubt that not mention that most of them lack of combat traning. And he used that means to crush obstacles on his way... as i said behlen took all power for himself when in normal system he wouldn't if not his strength.
2.Loghain would win civil war in fact he was doing that on ease sure he would lose with archdemon but he would won civil war and only that intrest us in that matter.
3.As i said depending on type of monarchy if monarch is weak he will have little power and even in that case strong monarch could have grow up in strenght and took more power it wouldn't be first time. As i said better civil war like in orzammar than be weak and lack actual power.
Honestly I'm just annoyed. Politicians fail, and they blame the system they're working with for tying their hands. They succeed, however minor that success is, and they hail it as a victory.
Celene never accepts responsibility for anything she does wrong. She blames Gaspard, she blames the Game, she blames Mantillon. It's never her fault. She does what she has to do. It's never her fault.
And I'm tired of it.
Her imposing her will would not solve anything ether. The sad thing with politics is that it's inherit about sharing power with other to reach a goal. Sure she never takes full responsibility but she really can't rule her country any other way but to do these compromises. She did it any other way she would turn the county into a war zone, a tyranny, or someone else would be ruling it for her in the shadows. The game for as bad it is is the best way to get the country to function with out setting it on fire. She has years of social practices against her and that takes generations to undo.
Her imposing her will would not solve anything ether. The sad thing with politics is that it's inherit about sharing power with other to reach a goal. Sure she never takes full responsibility but she really can't rule her country any other way but to do these compromises. She did it any other way she would turn the county into a war zone, a tyranny, or someone else would be ruling it for her in the shadows. The game for as bad it is is the best way to get the country to function with out setting it on fire. She has years of social practices against her and that takes generations to undo.
The problem with that argument is that it became a warzone anyway. It was always going to become a warzone. Nothing she did prevented that.
1.Still castless don't outnumber orzamar army i rather doubt that not mention that most of them lack of combat traning. And he used that means to crush obstacles on his way... as i said behlen took all power for himself when in normal system he wouldn't if not his strength.
2.Loghain would win civil war in fact he was doing that on ease sure he would lose with archdemon but he would won civil war and only that intrest us in that matter.
3.As i said depending on type of monarchy if monarch is weak he will have little power and even in that case strong monarch could have grow up in strenght and took more power it wouldn't be first time. As i said better civil war like in orzammar than be weak and lack actual power.
1. Yes, the castless do outnumber the orzammar army. The castles are the mass majority. And we already now how well they fight.
2. Don't try it. We already know he would of lost to Alistair. We had a dlc dedicated on the what if scenario if the warden died. He would of lost. That is that.
3. A monarchy or any rulership power is based on how much people supports them or who. Then need powerful people to support them or an army to impose there will. In a monarchy, the army mostly comes from the nobility, as each noble rules an area and has a private army each. Even a tyrant can impose his rule with out support. So they can't just do ANYTHING they want. If they ****** off the people who support them they lose their power.
The problem with that argument is that it became a warzone anyway. It was always going to become a warzone. Nothing she did prevented that.
It became a war zone because to the actions of another. Not hers. He only mistake was not kill Gaspard before he reached that power and though she could manipulate him with politics.
It became a war zone because to the actions of another. Not hers. He only mistake was not kill Gaspard before he reached that power and though she could manipulate him with politics.
Which is a pretty big mistake.
End of the day I don't blame her for the war. It was out of her hands. But I'm not going to praise her for her efforts in preventing war when they amounted to nothing, anyway.
1. Yes, the castless do outnumber the orzammar army. The castles are the mass majority. And we already now how well they fight.
2. Don't try it. We already know he would of lost to Alistair. We had a dlc dedicated on the what if scenario if the warden died. He would of lost. That is that.
3. A monarchy or any rulership power is based on how much people supports them or who. Then need powerful people to support them or an army to impose there will. In a monarchy, the army mostly comes from the nobility, as each noble rules an area and has a private army each. Even a tyrant can impose his rule with out support. So they can't just do ANYTHING they want. If they ****** off the people who support them they lose their power.
1.Eee? where it is stated? Nope they can't have weapon even in warden case duncan says he lacks basic trening sure we they have many criminals but many of them is also simple beggars.
2.Remove alistair and the warden his party pretty much he would won without warden party as i said he was winning only the hero saved the day.
3.Absolute monarchy? nobility don't have all army in fact she would gain more allies than behlen considering how abusive place orlais for everyone not counting nobility. In fact even gaining some nobility support wouldn't be problem especially if she was ready burn some nobles one way or another in behlen style.
It use to be.
And now it isn't. So her job really can't be said to be that of an ideological theocratic inquisitor, to make nobles believe what she wants or remove them.
Which is a pretty big mistake.
End of the day I don't blame her for the war. It was out of her hands. But I'm not going to praise her for her efforts in preventing war when they amounted to nothing, anyway.
It's not the issue that her efforts were wrong. It's that she let her pride get in the way.
1.Eee? where it is stated? Nope they can't have weapon even in warden case duncan says he lacks basic trening sure we they have many criminals but many of them is also simple beggars.
2.Remove alistair and the warden his party pretty much he would won without warden party as i said he was winning only the hero saved the day.
3.Absolute monarchy? nobility don't have all army in fact she would gain more allies than behlen considering how abusive place orlais for everyone not counting nobility. In fact even gaining some nobility support wouldn't be problem especially if she was ready burn some nobles one way or another in behlen style.
1.One, it in the lore. 2. The carta clearly can supply the weapon. 3. The warrior caste is also backing them. 4. You pick the traditional guy he and his ruler ship get taken down by a castless rebellion.
2. We already know he fails to do that. Which bring me back to my point that it's not just the Warden his plans fail. It's destine to fail.
3. Yes, nobles do have armies. Look up how monarchies work. Hell, just look at dao and you see that they do. And you're still not getting that noble can offer the same thing Celene can.
Sorry but ruler can't just do ANYTHING they want without considering the consequences and how much support they have.
It's all a moot discussion. Come Inquisition, I don't give a toss about which of them's a better leader; my decisions will be based entirely on who's of greater use to me. If that's Celene, so be it.
1.One, it in the lore. 2. The carta clearly can supply the weapon. 3. The warrior caste is also backing them. 4. You pick the traditional guy he and his ruler ship get taken down by a castless rebellion.
2. We already know he fails to do that. Which bring me back to my point that it's not just the Warden his plans fail. It's destine to fail.
3. Yes, nobles do have armies. Look up how monarchies work. Hell, just look at dao and you see that they do. And you're still not getting that noble can offer the same thing Celene can.
Sorry but ruler can't just do ANYTHING they want without considering the consequences and how much support they have.
1.Where in the lore?As many other cirminal organizations.Harrowmont could handle them.
2.Not rly as i said he was winning until the warden/alistair healed eamon and still he won only thanks to the warden/alistair.
3.I see you are avoiding what what I write as i said absolute monarchy yes they have "army" so what so competent monarch would brought on his side,.... so please stop justify celene as she is weak and can only stay in her position without actual power by pleasing nobles...
1.Where in the lore?As many other cirminal organizations.Harrowmont could handle them.
2.Not rly as i said he was winning until the warden/alistair healed eamon and still he won only thanks to the warden/alistair.
3.I see you are avoiding what what I write as i said absolute monarchy yes they have "army" so what so competent monarch would brought on his side,.... so please stop justify celene as she is weak and can only stay in her position without actual power by pleasing nobles...
I don't know if someone already bought this up, but Alistair gets the throne if the warden dies as seen in the Darkspawn Chronicles. He loses at the landsmeet no matter what.
I don't know if someone already bought this up, but Alistair gets the throne if the warden dies as seen in the Darkspawn Chronicles. He loses at the landsmeet no matter what.
As i said hero saves the day alistair found ashes and healed eamon... no hero party eamon stay sick no landsmeet.
As i said hero saves the day alistair found ashes and healed eamon... no hero party eamon stay sick no landsmeet.
Why is it a hero party Alistair is just doing what he has to do to win? And of course he would have won because without Alistair there is no one else with a claim to the throne.
As i said hero saves the day alistair found ashes and healed eamon... no hero party eamon stay sick no landsmeet.
And he still beats Loghain. You're not getting it that it's cannon Loghain loses the war no matter what even if the warden is not there?
1.Where in the lore?As many other cirminal organizations.Harrowmont could handle them.
2.Not rly as i said he was winning until the warden/alistair healed eamon and still he won only thanks to the warden/alistair.
3.I see you are avoiding what what I write as i said absolute monarchy yes they have "army" so what so competent monarch would brought on his side,.... so please stop justify celene as she is weak and can only stay in her position without actual power by pleasing nobles...
1. D
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