551 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I know. But I don't see anything particularly worthy of praise in wanting to end the Game without being able to actually offer something better. And Gaspard is most certainly not offering something better. So he gets zero points from me in this matter.

How about honest politics, or at least more honest politics? The Game is not neccesary. We only neeed to look at the other nations in Thedas to see that. Ferelden, Free Marches, Nevarra, Antiva, Rivain, Anderfels, and possibly even Tevinter don't need to have this kind of system to prosper.

[Ianamus]

 

I can respect that Celene has to do terrible things every now and then to survive in the world she lives in. I'm not even saying I wouldn't have used murder to secure the throne, were I in her shoes; I just would have murdered my rival instead of going for the sympathy play. But the fact that she kept the person she wronged the most in her action as her lover is sick. 

 

I don't know. I agree it is disturbing, but I don't think Celene was selfish or malicious in taking Briala as her lover. I think she and Briala legitimately fell in love with each other, and she was more than prepared to give Briala up to the Dalish when Briala went to find them. 

[Gwydden]

How about honest politics, or at least more honest politics? The Game is not neccesary. We only neeed to look at the other nations in Thedas to see that. Ferelden, Free Marches, Nevarra, Antiva, Rivain, Anderfels, and possibly even Tevinter don't need to have this kind of system to prosper.

What do you suggest? Tell the nobles to behave and hope for the best? The Game is part of Orlesian culture as much as slavery is part of Tevinter's. You cannot just casually and brusquely eliminate it without destroying the nation. Which is why in both countries there has been rabid resistance any time anyone tried to eliminate any of these institutions. Culture is far more persistent than that. That is no way to exert change, and it will most likely fail.

[Former_Fiend]

I don't know. I agree it is disturbing, but I don't think Celene was selfish or malicious in taking Briala as her lover. I think she and Briala legitimately fell in love with each other, and she was more than prepared to give Briala up to the Dalish when Briala went to find them. 

 

If she legitimately loved the girl, she shouldn't have allowed the relationship to start out of basic human decency. 

 

I'm not saying that Celene was intentionally messing with Briala. I don't think she was having a private laugh every time they made love about how she didn't know. But this is a situation where there was a right thing to do and a wrong thing to do and while I can understand how she made the mistake, I'm not about to try and reward her a third time by fixing that relationship. 

[G. Recruit]

She killed the woman's parents for a purely selfish reason and lied to her about it for twenty years. I can hardly imagine a greater violation of a person's trust.

If she hadn't ordered.then.lady mantillion would have killed her and then brialas parents and her. If your looking for something to blame blame the game. Cause that's what lead to this tragedy in the first place. If anything celene limited the damage by saving burials that night.

 

So yes I will be siding with celene. But I I'll be looking for a way to make sure the elves have equal rights. At least in Orlando. I think brialas plan is far too narrow and shortlisted. As inquisitor my job will be to save all the people no.matter what race I am. Though I will be an elf.

 

And yes I do hope that we can provide a resolution to celene and brialas relationship.

[Loghain Mac-Tir]

If she legitimately loved the girl, she shouldn't have allowed the relationship to start out of basic human decency. 

 

I'm not saying that Celene was intentionally messing with Briala. I don't think she was having a private laugh every time they made love about how she didn't know. But this is a situation where there was a right thing to do and a wrong thing to do and while I can understand how she made the mistake, I'm not about to try and reward her a third time by fixing that relationship. 

 

Nor should we be able to, somethings can not be fixed.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

What do you suggest? Tell the nobles to behave and hope for the best? The Game is part of Orlesian culture as much as slavery is part of Tevinter's. You cannot just casually and brusquely eliminate it without destroying the nation. Which is why in both countries there has been rabid resistance any time anyone tried to eliminate any of these institutions. Culture is far more persistent than that. That is no way to exert change, and it will most likely fail.

Yes. And if the keep it up, good luck on the Breaches near where you live.

[Former_Fiend]

What do you suggest? Tell the nobles to behave and hope for the best? The Game is part of Orlesian culture as much as slavery is part of Tevinter's. You cannot just casually and brusquely eliminate it without destroying the nation. Which is why in both countries there has been rabid resistance any time anyone tried to eliminate any of these institutions. Culture is far more persistent than that. That is no way to exert change, and it will most likely fail.

 

As it stands I'm quite content to let Orlais tear itself apart.

 

Come inquisition they will fall in line behind me so I can make sure there is a world for them to keep killing each other over once it's done, or I'll leave them to their fate. And if any of them try to stand in my way, I will decorate Val Royeaux with their charred corpses.

[Gwydden]

Yes. And if the keep it up, good luck on the Breaches near where you live.

There's a difference between forcing it to stop for a while and actually hoping to achieve long-term success.

[dewayne31]

Honestly, i felt for Celene, i really did, but on the flip side all i could really think was "Briala you treacherous skank!". I think if Celene does see Bria again, she might just chop off her head without question.

 

Wouldnt Briala be a traitor to the crown non matter what? I could see Celene having her executed as traitor

[Loghain Mac-Tir]

If she hadn't ordered.then.lady mantillion would have killed her and then brialas parents and her. If your looking for something to blame blame the game. Cause that's what lead to this tragedy in the first place. If anything celene limited the damage by saving burials that night.

 

So yes I will be siding with celene. But I I'll be looking for a way to make sure the elves have equal rights. At least in Orlando. I think brialas plan is far too narrow and shortlisted. As inquisitor my job will be to save all the people no.matter what race I am. Though I will be an elf.

 

And yes I do hope that we can provide a resolution to celene and brialas relationship.

 

I didn't knew that the DA setting was shifted from Thedas to Central Florida.

[jedicam10]

Former_Fiend, I feel like your argument against Celene is based a bit too much on hindsight and basically saying "If she was really sorry, she wouldn't have done it in the first place". She got wrapped up in The Game before she loved Briala. Had she told the truth, she'd have lost her forever. This is what happened in TME but she was hoping she'd take the secret to her grave.

 

 

I have to say, I love strategic politicking and whatnot. It's pretty fun (unless its real-life politics where people's well-being is at stake). Given the involvement of Orlais and the power the Inquisitor has in DA:I, I think that this game might be my favorite yet.

 

Now, resume with The Game!

[Former_Fiend]

If she hadn't ordered.then.lady mantillion would have killed her and then brialas parents and her. If your looking for something to blame blame the game. Cause that's what lead to this tragedy in the first place. If anything celene limited the damage by saving burials that night.

 

So yes I will be siding with celene. But I I'll be looking for a way to make sure the elves have equal rights. At least in Orlando. I think brialas plan is far too narrow and shortlisted. As inquisitor my job will be to save all the people no.matter what race I am. Though I will be an elf.

 

And yes I do hope that we can provide a resolution to celene and brialas relationship.

 

Here's a brilliant idea; kill lady Mantillion instead of waiting for her to kill you.

 

Or here's a better idea; forfeit your claim to the throne and flee as far from Orlais as you can. No one forced Celene to play the game; she wanted the throne and she killed her own people to claim it.

[Gwydden]

I didn't knew that the DA setting was shifted from Thedas to Central Florida.

So that's what all the noise was about? I should go check for any breaches xD

[Hanako Ikezawa]

There's a difference between forcing it to stop for a while and actually hoping to achieve long-term success.

Need to start somewhere. The pause in The Game gives time to start setting up a way of governance. 

[Former_Fiend]

Former_Fiend, I feel like your argument against Celene is based a bit too much on hindsight and basically saying "If she was really sorry, she wouldn't have done it in the first place". She got wrapped up in The Game before she loved Briala. Had she told the truth, she'd have lost her forever. This is what happened in TME but she was hoping she'd take the secret to her grave.

 

 

I have to say, I love strategic politicking and whatnot. It's pretty fun (unless its real-life politics where people's well-being is at stake). Given the involvement of Orlais and the power the Inquisitor has in DA:I, I think that this game might be my favorite yet.

 

Now, resume with The Game!

 

People like to build up excuses so they don't have to except the responsibility for their actions. Losing her forever was the right thing to do; she got the Throne. She didn't deserve Briala, too.

[Ianamus]

If she legitimately loved the girl, she shouldn't have allowed the relationship to start out of basic human decency. 

 

I'm not saying that Celene was intentionally messing with Briala. I don't think she was having a private laugh every time they made love about how she didn't know. But this is a situation where there was a right thing to do and a wrong thing to do and while I can understand how she made the mistake, I'm not about to try and reward her a third time by fixing that relationship. 

 

I honestly think letting Briala have the relationship may have been the kindest thing to do. Briala presumably needed Celenes comfort just as much as Celene needed hers, and giving Briala love and the promise to help the elves was likely the kindest thing Celene could do. I see your point about allowing it to start violating human decency, but similarly I can see how rejecting her, leaving her with a rejection from the one she loved as well as dead parents, and denying her that love, would have also violated human decency, particularly since Celene loved her as well. 

 

I don't think they should get back together, after what Briala did. I honestly think the best thing Celene can do is find a noble male and secure her power, using it to continue the path of progression and culture she started. 

 

As for Briala, I hope that she manages to help the elves, but I also hope that she gets some form of punishment for allowing so many innocent humans in Orlais to die to help her people, be it the guilt or something else. Sacrificing so many humans to save the elves rather than working with Celene to do it diplomatically makes her a hypocrite for being angry at Celene for killing her parents to secure the power she needed to save Orlais.

[ladyoflate]

Need to start somewhere. The pause in The Game gives time to start setting up a way of governance. 

 

The key to changing society is to plant a few seeds moving in that direction, then distract everyone and change it all at once. That way it seems like it's always been that way and is the new normal. That's how Vetinari does it.

[myahele]

I wouldn't mind the chantry HQ be relocated in Nevarre. They seem more open-minded in general and alot more straight forward. Sure, there'll always be politics, but it won't be some big theatre show where everyone is playing the game.

[Cobra's_back]

No way the two of them will get together.I thought Briala showed excellent restraint.

 

Just imagine Celene kills her parents, uses her as a spy and assassin for decades.  Then Celene gets Briala arrested kills all her people in Halamshiral. Could Celene have stabbed Briala any harder? Celene is the biggest viper I have seen in Dragon Age.

 

Question: How many people would want a lover like Celene?

[Gwydden]

I wouldn't mind the chantry HQ be relocated in Nevarre. They seem more open-minded in general and alot more straight forward. Sure, there'll always be politics, but it won't be some big theatre show where everyone is playing the game.

Nevarra's just as bad. And they share more in common with Tevinter than the Chantry would find comfortable.

[lil yonce]

What do you suggest? Tell the nobles to behave and hope for the best? The Game is part of Orlesian culture as much as slavery is part of Tevinter's. You cannot just casually and brusquely eliminate it without destroying the nation. Which is why in both countries there has been rabid resistance any time anyone tried to eliminate any of these institutions. Culture is far more persistent than that. That is no way to exert change, and it will most likely fail.

 

Weakening the nobility, strengthening the crown and getting the crown to vigorously police and punish The Game, or rather crime closely associated with it, could faze it out over time, but no, it wouldn't happen all at once, and I doubt anything but a mass culling of the nobility would end it in one fell swoop. I'd like to see Celene try to deal with The Game as part of her Orlesian societal progression plans though. I think it could fit.

[Ianamus]

 

Question: How many people would want a lover like Celene?

 

:awkwardly raises hand:

[Gwydden]

Weakening the nobility, strengthening the crown and getting the crown to vigorously police and punish The Game, or rather crime closely associated with it, could faze it out over time, but no, it wouldn't happen all at once, and I doubt anything but a mass culling of the nobility would end it in one fell swoop. I'd like to see Celene try to deal with The Game as part of her Orlesian societal progression plans though. I think it could fit.

The only way I see it happening in the short term is through a revolution. But then, revolutions have the bad habit of creating systems that are at best marginally better to their predecessors.

[dewayne31]

No way the two of them will get together.I thought Briala showed excellent restraint.

 

Just imagine Celene kills her parents, uses her as a spy and assassin for decades.  Then Celene gets Briala arrested kills all her people in Halamshiral. Could Celene have stabbed Briala any harder? Celene is the biggest viper I have seen in Dragon Age.

 

Question: How many people would want a lover like Celene?

 

But at that point wasnt Briala plotting against in the early stages? So i say Celene pllayed the game well.