Really? Imo when she had Briala arrested that showed otherwise.
That was only having Briala confined to a comfy room in the palace though. Had she actually have had to have Briala killed...
I'm sure she would give up Briala's freedom or their relationship for the throne, but not the womans life.
The Breach explosion in the beginning of the game is at a peace conference for the Mage/Templar War, not the Orlesian Civil War.
So unfortunately, I'm stuck with characters I like being killed.
Damn it I was hoping I wouldn't have to deal with these assholes. 
If Adrian goes up in the blaze, I'll be making popcorn.
...Well it ain't all bad. 
If Adrian goes up in the blaze, I'll be making popcorn.
Knowing my luck, she'll be the only Asunder character, minus Cole obviously, that wasn't there and thus survives.
I love Adrian. I hope no harm ever comes to her.
Briala was always free. She was not Celenes slave, she could have left whenever she chose to.
If Celene had ever been forced to chose between the Orlesian throne or Briala's life... I honestly think she would have chosen Briala's life over the Throne.
I don't see that. Nor did I see them as equals. I saw Briala doing whatever Celene needed. Her whole life was wrapped and dependent on Celene. This is her first step to independence. I really hope she finds a really beautiful female mage Elf. Long life to Briala because I really like her character.
Same.
It's almost as if BioWare was like: "Hey! You know what would be funny? Let's really ruin Hinata and Justinia's life. Let's just.. let's just take everything they like and crush it."
We still have Qunari.
As for the Breach-plosion, I'm still hoping that maybe not everyone I like went there. Fiona for example may have stayed behind and sent representatives.
I don't really know that a second-class citizen is ever really 'free' to dump the leader of their country. Like, I don't think Celene would have gone after her but let's still not discount the inherent extreme power imbalance in their relationship.
Briala did leave to find the Dalish at one point, and Celene let her. She only came back to Celene because she chose to.
"I will take joy in my love finding her people, even as my breast aches with every heartbeat I live without you".
Here's a brilliant idea; kill lady Mantillion instead of waiting for her to kill you.
Or here's a better idea; forfeit your claim to the throne and flee as far from Orlais as you can. No one forced Celene to play the game; she wanted the throne and she killed her own people to claim it.
As someone already mentioned; Celene had no support structure whatsoever, aside from Lady Mantillion. The lady wasn't actually her rival, she was more akin to a sponsor. However, as much as Lady Mantillon was her sponsor, Celene was the lady's tool, and she would have been disposed of at the first sign of weakness...or, at least, that's what Celene had been led to believe after learning the rules of the game. If she had killed her benefactor, her ONLY backing to the throne, Celene's life would have been forfeit for all she knew.
Forfeiting her claim to the throne would have been seen as nothing but an empty promise, a ruse to lull them into a false sense of security, in the eyes of the Game-playing nobles. And moving to Ferelden? Where would she go? She had nothing in Ferelden. Sure, she could have sold her family estate, but I highly doubt an Orlesian like herself would have been able to buy land in Ferelden so soon after the war. An Orlesian noble has little to nothing outside of Orlais. Celene claiming the throne was potentially a life or death situation for her at the time, it was do or die.
As much as I'd like that, I would like to hear what she has to say just to see what her mindset is now.
If she does still live, and I think there will be at least one from the mage camp that lives, I hope to God she has seen and understands what she has wrought.
Celene had all of her servants (save Briala) killed for three reasons:
1: So that none of them could be bribed/ tortured or manipulated into revealing any incriminating evidence they knew that could lose her support (I think it was stated that they did know things that could lead to this)
2: As part of a sympathy ploy. Young girl almost killed by assassins while visiting a nobles estate, all of her servants killed. Would gain her sympathy support.
3. The above playing of the game impressed lady Mantillon, earning her the Nobles support. In return lady mantillon would kill the emperor, allowing Celene to take the throne.
Thanks. So the whole thing was more or less tied to getting rid of Emperor Florian, a weak ruler. Its certainly ruthless, even if Orlais might have benefited from it.
Keeping Briala around as a lover though seems a lot harder to justify though. It could be argued that Celene's ruthless actions in gaining throne weren't entirely selfish. But could the same be said about taking Briala as a lover?
If it was a targeted assassination by the Big Bad with the aim of causing instability, then it makes more sense for Adrian, Gaspard, Celene and Briala to have survived. The Orlesian Civil War is driven specifically by the persona ambitions of all three players. Removing any one of them may end the war faster.
And Adrian, from what I understand, she doesn't sound like she'd be a calming influence on the world.
If she does still live, and I think there will be at least one from the mage camp that lives, I hope to God she has seen and understands what she has wrought.
I doubt that, she always seemed like a hot head
Briala did leave to find the Dalish at one point, and Celene let her. She only came back to Celene because she chose to.
"I will take joy in my love finding her people, even as my breast aches with every heartbeat I live without you".
Yeah, but that's a little different than breaking up. They're clearly still in love. You don't get mad at your SO for leaving to find their long-lost birth parents or whatever, but you do tend to be a bit miffed if they dump you.
If she does still live, and I think there will be at least one from the mage camp that lives, I hope to God she has seen and understands what she has wrought.
She won't care this is the same woman who framed a man she claimed to love for murder to start a war.
As someone already mentioned; Celene had no support structure whatsoever, aside from Lady Mantillion. The lady wasn't actually her rival, she was more akin to a sponsor. However, as much as Lady Mantillon was her sponsor, Celene was the lady's tool, and she would have been disposed of at the first sign of weakness...or, at least, that's what Celene had been led to believe after learning the rules of the game. If she had killed her benefactor, her ONLY backing to the throne, Celene's life would have been forfeit for all she knew.
Forfeiting her claim to the throne would have been seen as nothing but an empty promise, a ruse to lull them into a false sense of security, in the eyes of the Game-playing nobles. And moving to Ferelden? Where would she go? She had nothing in Ferelden. Sure, she could have sold her family estate, but I highly doubt an Orlesian like herself would have been able to buy land in Ferelden so soon after the war. An Orlesian noble has little to nothing outside of Orlais. Celene claiming the throne was potentially a life or death situation for her at the time, it was do or die.
Here is where a person needs to make a choice. Become a murderer killing servants and your love ones family or leaving. I would have left. What did Hawk"s father and mother do? He left the circle and she left her estate to become a commoner. In Ferelden you meet a girl that fled Orlais because she was raped. She now sells goods at the market. This is what you should do for a love one.
That was only having Briala confined to a comfy room in the palace though. Had she actually have had to have Briala killed...
I'm sure she would give up Briala's freedom or their relationship for the throne, but not the womans life.
Either way thought she chose the crown over her, that could only be the beginning of things.
I, personally, believe Celene would choose the country over Briala.
We still have Qunari.
As for the Breach-plosion, I'm still hoping that maybe not everyone I like went there. Fiona for example may have stayed behind and sent representatives.
Prayer circle
If she does still live, and I think there will be at least one from the mage camp that lives, I hope to God she has seen and understands what she has wrought.
I hope so too, but I can't imagine her to be in much remorse.
And Adrian, from what I understand, she doesn't sound like she'd be a calming influence on the world.
Oh yes. That red headed....woman cares for nothing but her own agenda, friends and allies be damned. Her betrayal of Rhys has not made me hate a character so much in years. Not since Petrice have I hated a character so much.
In Ferelden you meet a girl that fled Orlais because she was raped. She now sells goods at the market. This is what you should do for a love one.
Actually, she was almost raped. Her brother stopped the Chevalier and they killed him later for interfering, so she she fled for her life.
Actually, she was almost raped. Her brother stopped the Chevalier and they killed him later for interfering, so she she fled for her life.
Thanks that is even better. I'm glad she made it. A great success story.
Thanks. So the whole thing was more or less tied to getting rid of Emperor Florian, a weak ruler. Its certainly ruthless, even if Orlais might have benefited from it.
Keeping Briala around as a lover though seems a lot harder to justify though. It could be argued that Celene's ruthless actions in gaining throne weren't entirely selfish. But could the same be said about taking Briala as a lover?
I read it more as "mutually falling in love" than "taking Briala as a lover" when I read the book. Its implied near the end that Celene often thinks about how she had Briala's parents murdered and feels an incredible amount of guilt over it.
It's also worth noting that Celene implements a lot of pro-elf policies for Briala, including forcing a university that has 0 non-noble students to accept an elf, and her kind treatment of elves is what is ultimately used by Gaspard to turn nobles against her. So I don't think the relationship is particularly lop-sided or unfair, if a bit selfish.
Here is where a person needs to make a choice. Become a murderer killing servants and your love ones family or leaving. I would have left. What did Hawk"s father and mother do? He left the circle and she left her estate to become a commoner. In Ferelden you meet a girl that fled Orlais because she was raped. She now sells goods at the market. This is what you should do for a love one.
Did she love Briala at the time though? I thought it was implied that they fell in love afterwards.
Betraying somone you love and wronging someone who you later fall in love with are two different things.
Also, it was less "Become a murderer killing your servants or leave" and more "Become a murderer killing your servants or die".
Thanks that is even better. I'm glad she made it. A great success story.
Well, ignoring the brother was killed bit.
Did she love Briala at the time though? I thought it was implied that they fell in love afterwards.
Betraying somone you love and wronging someone who you later fall in love with are two different things.
Also, it was less "Become a murderer killing your servants or leave" and more "Become a murderer killing your servants or die".
It doesn't matter. Never lie to a love one. If she did the act before they fell in love then Celene should have told her before the relationship started. A long term relationship is based on trust. Having strong feeling for a person doesn't conquer all obstacles. Celene doesn't get a pass here.
Betraying someone you love and wronging someone who you later fall in love with are two different things.
They're also both equally wrong. Some would say wronging someone you don't know is even worse.
Well, ignoring the brother was killed bit.
Oh boy. I didn't read that correctly. Sorry that happen.
They're also both equally wrong. Some would say wronging someone you don't know is even worse.
They are both wrong, I agree, but as for the equally... eh...
I would be more upset by someone I trusted and loved betraying that trust than someone I don't know wronging me.
It doesn't matter. Never lie to a love one. If she did the act before they fell in love then Celene should have told her before the relationship started. A long term relationship is based on trust. Having strong feeling for a person doesn't conquer all obstacles. Celene doesn't get a pass here.
I personally believe that lying is wrong by default and would have been honest, but I accept Celenes logic that telling Briala the truth would have been far more damaging than keeping it a secret, so long as it stayed secret. I suppose the bottom line is that while I care a lot about sticking to my own moral code I accept that other people have different opinions on morality, and that I can no more tell them what is right or wrong than they can tell me.
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