551 réponses à ce sujet

[Cobra's_back]

 

I personally believe that lying is wrong by default and would have been honest, but I accept Celenes logic that telling Briala the truth would have been far more damaging than keeping it a secret, so long as it stayed secret. I suppose the bottom line is that while I care a lot about sticking to my own moral code I accept that other people have different opinions on morality, and that I can no more tell them what is right or wrong than they can tell me. 

 

Bad move. I would have told her no. If Celene killed her parents before she fell in love then she built her love on top of a lie. Whatever dark secrets a person has they have to come clean with the information if they intend to have the "love of a century". It is not easy but it is a must.

 

Celene not telling the truth is showing her disrespect for Briala. Why should Briala respect Celene now?

 

This is wrong: "Briala the truth would have been far more damaging than keeping". It is not Celene's  place to make this call. Briala already loss her parents. That is painful enough but to engage in a relationship with her after killing her parents is down right ruthless.

 

Here is where Celene should have refrained from having a relationship with Briala or told her the truth before starting it.

[Han Shot First]

Although I haven't read the books, I'd have to agree with those who say that fleeing Orlais wouldn't have been option for Celene. 

 

Once Florian dies, and he would have died eventually, she is a potential claimant for the crown. Anyone who seized the throne in her stead would likely summon assassins to track her down and assassinate her as their next order of business. It may be completely ruthless but it is also the smart play. Failing to do so may be moral and honorable but it also risks a rival claimant returning and rallying an army to challenge you. If that next monarch was anything like most of the monarchs from our history, he or she would not suffer potential challengers.

 

I doubt she Celene much choice but to play the game. The alternative is probably death.

[Morroian]

Selfish to a point. Celene had every intention of allowing Briala to simply flee to the Dalish, but she came back to her so what was she to do?

 

Break up with her if they were already together, not take her as a lover if they weren't. I agree with those saying a reconciliation should never happen.

[Cobra's_back]

Ah, yeah, no. As righteous as it would be, you can't expect a person to be that virtuous. Just put yourself in her shoes.

 

Yes I would tell her the truth or don't sleep with her. Love deserves respect.

[lil yonce]

Although I haven't read the books, I'd have to agree with those who say that fleeing Orlais wouldn't have been option for Celene. 

 

Once Florian dies, and he would have died eventually, she is a potential claimant for the crown. Anyone who seized the throne in her stead would likely summon assassins to track her down and assassinate her as their next order of business. It may be completely ruthless but it is also the smart play. Failing to do so may be moral and honorable but it also risks a rival claimant returning and rallying an army to challenge you. If that next monarch was anything like most of the monarchs from our history, he or she would not suffer potential challengers.

 

I doubt she Celene much choice but to play the game. The alternative is probably death.

 

Celene makes this argument in the book, actually, and Gaspard, the honorable one, shoots it down stating had he taken the throne he wouldn't have had her killed, rather he would have married her off to a Ferelden noble. Can't recall if Gaspard was the sole rival for the throne or not, however.

[Palidane]

Celene makes this arguement in the book, actually, and Gaspard, the honorable one, shots it down stating had he taken the throne he wouldn't have had her killed, rather he would have married her off to a Ferelden noble. Can't recall if Gaspard was the sole rival for the throne or not, however.

He wasn't the sole rival, I think he mentions Montsimmard was in the running as well. He was however the most prominent, and the most likely to take the throne. It just goes to show that Celene was rationalizing and making excuses instead of taking responsibility for her actions.

[Hellion Rex]

Celene makes this arguement in the book, actually, and Gaspard, the honorable one, shots it down stating had he taken the throne he wouldn't have had her killed, rather he would have married her off to a Ferelden noble. Can't recall if Gaspard was the sole rival for the throne or not, however.

Gaspard is the only serious contender for the throne. Celene mostly had those that could challenge her killed or deposed in her early years, and Gaspard probably eliminated any potential rivals while vying for the throne.

[wickedgoodreed]

Celene makes this arguement in the book, actually, and Gaspard, the honorable one, shots it down stating had he taken the throne he wouldn't have had her killed, rather he would have married her off to a Ferelden noble. Can't recall if Gaspard was the sole rival for the throne or not, however.

 

I found that laughably difficult to believe when I read it. Regardless of whether it's actually true, Celene's fear for her life was not unwarranted. It's not like Gaspard is above murder and assassination (as he demonstrates repeatedly throughout the book) and his own wife was responsible for the death of Celene's parents to begin with.

[stuffystuffs]

Did she love Briala at the time though? I thought it was implied that they fell in love afterwards.

 

 

I got the impression she did (which is why Briala was spared).

 

Celene was, what, 16 when this all happened?

 

Dem 16 year olds make the best decisions.

[Isaantia]

There is a lot of hating on Celene here but Briala was actively and purposefully using her position with Celene to help her own (city) elven freedom agenda. When Briala finally has a way to help the elves without Celene - she takes it. 

 

Honestly it felt like deep in her heart she always knew something was weird about her revenge murder since it had happened so easily and with Lady M not killing her, but she didn't want to believe it was Celene - at least not while Celene was still very useful to her cause. But Lady M taught Briala all the same lessons and she learned them well. Celene and Gaspard got out played by an elf. 

 

Celene and Briala seem to have had more of a mutual dependency more than true love. They wanted to believe it was love but it wasn't. 

 

I like Briala. A lot.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Briala is a warmonger, plain and simple.

[Exaltation]

Is Celene stuck now in the central chamber of the Eluvian?,i don't remember TME clearly.

[jedicam10]

Is Celene stuck now in the central chamber of the Eluvian?,i don't remember TME clearly.

 

No, she was transported to a secret eluvian at the Winter Palace by Briala..

[Augustei]

My Inquisitor is here to save the world not fix peoples love lives, if they ask him for help with that he will backhand them for such a foolish request in such a crisis =P
If my Prince-Consort Warden has anything to say about it he will sabotage any efforts for reconciliation between Celene and Briala since he wants to weaken Orlais and A Millitarily achived Elven state would sound quite swell to him.

My Inquisitor plans to put Celene on the throne, but as to advocating Orlesian interests...It depends on what faction offers the most to the Inquisition...Be that the Orlesian Empire then yes he will help them reconcile if possible.

[Cobra's_back]

My Inquisitor is here to save the world not fix peoples love lives, if they ask him for help with that he will backhand them for such a foolish request in such a crisis =P
If my Prince-Consort Warden has anything to say about it he will sabotage any efforts for reconciliation between Celene and Briala since he wants to weaken Orlais and A Millitarily achived Elven state would sound quite swell to him.

My Inquisitor plans to put Celene on the throne, but as to advocating Orlesian interests...It depends on what faction offers the most to the Inquisition...Be that the Orlesian Empire then yes he will help them reconcile if possible.

 

 

Interesting. Wynne also wanted the war to rage on. For one she was a Ferelden who wanted them weakened and two it would force them to use the mages to end it. Found that in Asunder pg. 124-126.

[Cobra's_back]

Briala is a warmonger, plain and simple.

 

She is not the only person that saw a benefit in their civil war. Wynne did as well. I'm seriously hoping for the Elves to be able to section off part of their ancient home and become an independent nation again.

[dewayne31]

She is not the only person that saw a benefit in their civil war. Wynne did as well. I'm seriously hoping for the Elves to be able to section off part of their ancient home and become an independent nation again.

I think the Elves need to be put cause i honestly believe Celene was going to help them. But Briala and the others elves planned outright rebelllion. I respect the Dalish Elves. But I have no love for the city elves. DA:O your City elf basically get away with murder. Granted a crime was committed them. DA2 two elves supposely converted to the qun after committing murder, If i had a choice i'd put the rebellion down hard and brutally. I believe the elves should have a homeland. but Briala must answer for what she has done.

[Cobra's_back]

I think the Elves need to be put cause i honestly believe Celene was going to help them. But Briala and the others elves planned outright rebelllion. I respect the Dalish Elves. But I have no love for the city elves. DA:O your City elf basically get away with murder. Granted a crime was committed them. DA2 two elves supposely converted to the qun after committing murder, If i had a choice i'd put the rebellion down hard and brutally. I believe the elves should have a homeland. but Briala must answer for what she has done.

 

Hard and brutally doesn't always work in the DA world. In the first book several characters stated that if Orlais treated the Ferelden people better there would not have been a successful rebellion. 

 

I'm just guessing that in this DA world we might see the union of the City Elf and the Dalish to claim a piece of the pie for their own nation. It is just a guess and I could be wrong. 

 

I thought the book was about Briala realizing she could not trust Celene any longer and would have to go it alone. It would be pretty cool if she did unite all the Elves. I would just love to see it.

[Uirebhiril]

I'm just guessing that in this DA world we might see the union of the City Elf and the Dalish to claim a piece of the pie for their own nation. It is just a guess and I could be wrong. 

 

 

On the other hand, how easy would it be for the Dalish to see the city elves as second-class citizens too? I can't imagine they wouldn't end up as servants and laborers for the Dalish, especially after reading The Masked Empire.

 

It's sort of too bad we probably won't be able to explore that idea in any length.

[Augustei]

I don't know if the city elves would like the idea of having Dalish culture and religion forced upon them... They've been seperate for near 1000 years now

[Cobra's_back]

On the other hand, how easy would it be for the Dalish to see the city elves as second-class citizens too? I can't imagine they wouldn't end up as servants and laborers for the Dalish, especially after reading The Masked Empire.

 

It's sort of too bad we probably won't be able to explore that idea in any length.

 

You have a point there. 

[Cobra's_back]

I don't know if the city elves would like the idea of having Dalish culture and religion forced upon them... They've been seperate for near 1000 years now

 

For a period of time Briala is holding the cards. Did they have it better with the humans?

[dewayne31]

Hard and brutally doesn't always work in the DA world. In the first book several characters stated that if Orlais treated the Ferelden people better there would not have been a successful rebellion. 

 

I'm just guessing that in this DA world we might see the union of the City Elf and the Dalish to claim a piece of the pie for their own nation. It is just a guess and I could be wrong. 

 

I thought the book was about Briala realizing she could not trust Celene any longer and would have to go it alone. It would be pretty cool if she did unite all the Elves. I would just love to see it.

 

I 'll give you that just seem to a mess bigger.

 

I could be incorrect been a few days since i finished the book. But didn't Briala state she wasnt going to help Dalish? If so she is being selfish toward city elves.

 

Yea i believe you right in a way. Briala after Hisrchmal sorry spell city right. Nut then again I think Celene after that event she couldnt trust Briala or the elves.

[Cobra's_back]

I 'll give you that just seem to a mess bigger.

 

I could be incorrect been a few days since i finished the book. But didn't Briala state she wasnt going to help Dalish? If so she is being selfish toward city elves.

 

Yea i believe you right in a way. Briala after Hisrchmal sorry spell city right. Nut then again I think Celene after that event she couldnt trust Briala or the elves.

 

Actually she told the female Dalish to spread the word that she thought they were her people even if they forgot. She wants them to join.

[dewayne31]

Actually she told the female Dalish to spread the word that she thought they were her people even if they forgot. She wants them to join.

Ok do remember that now. But I dont see the Dalish joing her especiallt afer Hirschmal and whjat actually happened ther. I dont get wrong i think some flock to her. But being the inquistoir could be Dalish I think she wont have their full support atleast.