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Liara's Time Capsules


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#76
Kabooooom

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I can't help but feel that tragedy as a genre has always been outnumbered in film and television, but to say that it's largely dead strikes me as inaccurate. Breaking Bad is a perfect example of how to create a tragic ending that fits while being largely praised by both critics and its audience. Admittedly, I'm not familiar with enough films across all genres to draw up lots of examples, but if you haven't seen a movie that didn't have some sort of forced happy ending, I question whether or not you've watched a lot of movies made in the past decade.

Granted, I was being somewhat hyperbolic by calling it a largely dead genre - but it essentially is so unpopular that very few tragic films or shows become mainstream popular, and hence not many are produced. Simple supply and demand. And it should be noted that just because a story has a tragic ending, that doesn't necessarily mean that it is a "tragedy", even though they are commonly referred as such. Stories with tragic endings seem to be more common (but still rare) than true tragedies. I did cite one film produced in the past decade - In Bruges - as the most recent one with a tragic ending that I've seen, but there are others. I can probably think of ten at most that I've seen that were made within the past eight years. Compared to the massive numbers of films with happy endings, I think that number is somewhat negligible, do you not? Another relatively recent film of sci-fi/horror with a tragic ending in which all protagonists die (in order to save countless lives), is the movie Sunshine.

Breaking Bad was somewhat unusual, I think. That was probably the best television show that I have ever seen in my life. It was absolutely incredibly well done in almost every way. The entire show was a true tragedy, not just the ending. And with regards to the ending, I mean - how could it have ended any other way? Did people expect Walt to suddenly be cured of cancer? It's a miracle, praise Jeebus! If it had a happy ending, it would have been thematically jarring with the rest of the show. And the ending was, in a sense, at least a bittersweet if not happy one for Jessie's character. But I think that show succeeded for two reasons: one, it was unusually well done. Two, it exemplified a characteristic of the tragedy - it invoked a cathartic experience in the viewers who watched the suffering of Walt and other characters that were so well written that people loved to hate them.

Who knows, maybe the success of that show will make tragic dramas more popular again. But I doubt it. People seem to prefer elements of tragedy within shows ("oh no that character died! I loved them") which have a different altogether tone overall. The Walking Dead is a good example of a show that is often tragic but is not a true tragedy thematically.

But all that is rather tangential to the discussion at hand :). I prefer a tragic ending to Mass Effect, which is why if I had to choose a head canon, one in which everyone tried, failed, but ultimately freed the next cycle would be it. But, other people prefer a happy ending, and that's totally fine. Both could fit with the story.

#77
Mordokai

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I find it funny how some Liaramancers disregard even the slightest criticism of their waifu as 'immature' or 'hate', no matter how well or badly written, no matter how intense. But disliking and criticizing other characters is totally fine :D

 

Hypocritical much?


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#78
Sir DeLoria

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Hypocritical much?


How so? I never talked about myself or compared you, so how is it hypocrisy?

I'm just sayin.

#79
themikefest

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You know, if we ever find the way to turn all the snarking about Liara, all the hate thrown into her direction and all the immature pettiness that we've been witness to so far into some sort of renewable energy, energy shortage problems will be the thing of the past for pretty much ever. Hell, this thread alone would probably be enough to power a small power plant.

So you wouldn't have a problem if it was Javik or Jacob or Miranda or Zaeed or Jack or any other character telling your story for the next cycle?



#80
KaiserShep

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Zaeed's account would sure be colorful.
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#81
Mordokai

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How so? I never talked about myself or compared you, so how is it hypocrisy?

I'm just sayin.

 

You?

 

Who use every available opportunity to tell the whole wide world how useless, ugly, not needed, in-general-the-story-would be-better-without-her, stalkerish (and I could probably come up with some more colorful adjectives) Liara is(or isn't, depending on how it suits you)?

 

You have the guts to call Liara fans when they decide to defend their favourite character out on criticizing other characters?

 

Yeah, I see no problems with it.

 

So you wouldn't have a problem if it was Javik or Jacob or Miranda or Zaeed or Jack or any other character telling your story for the next cycle?

 

I certainly wouldn't ****** about it, like ten year old spoiled brat, two years after the game is out and well and properly finished.


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#82
KaiserShep

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To think that such an inconsequential scene would be an issue at all.

#83
sH0tgUn jUliA

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I think of any of the other characters, I'd like to listen to Zaeed's account. Alas, Robin Sachs isn't around to do it anymore. Jack's account would be pretty colorful as well.



#84
themikefest

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I certainly wouldn't ****** about it, like ten year old spoiled brat, two years after the game is out and well and properly finished.

So your calling me a 10 year old brat? I haven't insulted you so don't insult me.



#85
Mordokai

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To think that such an inconsequential scene would be an issue at all.

 

Well, when you think about it...

 

There are two names we know about of in that capsule. Shepard's and Liara's. For all we know, they are the only names in that capsule and, thanks to Liara, they are the only ones that matter.

 

Thanks to Stargazer, we know Shepard is viewed with almost deific reverence. And Liara is her good friend, who had the privilege to know her.

 

Now, if Shepard is the new deity... that makes Liara her prophet. And who is the second most known figure after the deity? It's prophet.

 

So yeah, I can imagine that scene infuriates Liara haters a great deal.

 

So your calling me a 10 year old brat? I haven't insulted you so don't insult me.

 

Oh no... not just you.

 

I'm calling out everybody who still didn't get over the fact that Liara is what she is for the reasons that Bioware deemed legit. If you can't get over the fact that you don't have as much control over the fate of your character as you'd like to and are still throwing temper tantrums two years after everything is finished...

 

Well, I imagine you can finish that thought for yourself.



#86
sH0tgUn jUliA

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I really disagree here. There were 12 disciples of The Shepard in the time capsule. The dirty dozen. Liara was the author of the holy book. The Shepard had to give a blood sacrifice to end the war with the Reapers and save the organics of the galaxy from their sins.


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#87
themikefest

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Oh no... not just you.

 

I'm calling out everybody who still didn't get over the fact that Liara is what she is for the reasons that Bioware deemed legit. If you can't get over the fact that you don't have as much control over the fate of your character as you'd like to and are still throwing temper tantrums two years after everything is finished...

 

Well, I imagine you can finish that thought for yourself.

Really? Then why did you quote me specifically?



#88
Mordokai

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I really disagree here. There were 12 disciples of The Shepard in the time capsule. The dirty dozen. Liara was the author of the holy book. The Shepard had to give a blood sacrifice to end the war with the Reapers and save the organics of the galaxy from their sins.

 

There were dirty dozen who went on suicide mission. If we take unimported game for canon, a good portion of them died on it. Some of them probably died during events of ME3.

 

Yeah, they might be mentioned, though the game(and the scene in question) itself doesn't show it and that's what I'm basing my speculations on.

 

Really? Then why did you quote me specifically?

 

You asked me a question?



#89
themikefest

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You asked me a question?

Yes, by insulting me. And then in your next post you mentioned you were talking about others as well. Why didn't you post that to begin with?



#90
Mordokai

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Yes, by insulting me. And then in your next post you mentioned you were talking about others as well. Why didn't you post that to begin with?

 

I consider it logical enough on it's own.



#91
KaiserShep

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Liara leads to flame wars.
Flame wars lead to hate.
Hate leads to suffering.
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#92
themikefest

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I consider it logical enough on it's own.

By insulting people.

 

I have nothing against T'soni and the capsule. I don't like that it her that tell the story of my femshep who doesn't care about Liara at all. I would've preferred that there was an option to pick that would best fit Shepard without any input from T'soni.

 

In the 2 years I've been on the forum, I don't recall if this has ever been discussed before.



#93
Mordokai

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Liara leads to flame wars.
Flame wars lead to hate.
Hate leads to suffering.

 

Yeah, because BSN was such loving and caring oasis of peace in the first place, right? :)

 

By insulting people.

 

I have nothing against T'soni and the capsule. I don't like that it her that tell the story of my femshep who doesn't care about Liara at all. I would've preferred that there was an option to pick that would best fit Shepard without any input from T'soni.

 

In the 2 years I've been on the forum, I don't recall if this has ever been discussed before.

 

If you were insulted... sorry. But for the love of all that's holy... drop it already! You don't like her? I think pretty much everybody has figured that out already. No need to hammer the point in with sledgehammer. No need to point that out in every thread that's about her.

 

Why don't you do yourself the favor and stop visiting threads that are about her in the first place? Why not spare yourself and others the hate?

 

And yeah, I realize I would do well to follow my own advice. Never claimed I was the brightest of the bulbs in the box.



#94
von uber

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Sheesh, enough of the fighting. Why can't we all just get along? Look what you've all done to her:

RwOhcEU.jpg

(been a while since I've dragged that one out, hasn't it).
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#95
themikefest

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If you were insulted... sorry. But for the love of all that's holy... drop it already! You don't like her? I think pretty much everybody has figured that out already. No need to hammer the point in with sledgehammer. No need to point that out in every thread that's about her.

 

Why don't you do yourself the favor and stop visiting threads that are about her in the first place? Why not spare yourself and others the hate?

 

And yeah, I realize I would do well to follow my own advice. Never claimed I was the brightest of the bulbs in the box.

Why do you get so worked up about people saying stuff about the character you like?



#96
Mrs_Stick

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Why do you get so worked up about people saying stuff about the character you like?



Who knows really. From some of your post I know you don't like Garrus. He is my favorite but what the heck who cares. You don't have to like him cuz I love that turian!

#97
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Who knows really. From some of your post I know you don't like Garrus. He is my favorite but what the heck who cares. You don't have to like him cuz I love that turian!

I may not like him, but in ME2 I use him quite a bit. In ME3, if he's alive, I use him until I get Ashley/Kaidan back.



#98
ImaginaryMatter

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I may not like him, but in ME2 I use him quite a bit. In ME3, if he's alive, I use him until I get Ashley/Kaidan back.

 

Garrus is pretty awesome in ME2. Squad Armor Piercing Ammo and the only Area Oveload on Insanity that can completely strip the full shields off of mooks (due to his +Power Damage passive). That Turian is useful.



#99
Mrs_Stick

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I just say don't get worked up if someone does not like a character you do. They have a right not to and to suggest things that might have worked better without them.

#100
ImaginaryMatter

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I just say don't get worked up if someone does not like a character you do. They have a right not to and to suggest things that might have worked better without them.

 

I try not to. Then again the characters that I like, that others seems to dislike (Kaidan and Jacob), never quite attract all the ire that Liara does.