131 réponses à ce sujet

[Nyeredzi]

Even though alchemy is going to be useless, and annoyingly tedious, you are going to generate a lot of reagents, aren't you. Please don't put any weight on those.

[Wulfram]

While I agree with "annoyingly tedious", Alchemy will probably be overpowered rather than useless.

[Wrathion]

Would it be possible to just give "agents" all the junk we want to sell, and they go off and do it for us? 

That would be great.

[Deflagratio]

While I agree with "annoyingly tedious", Alchemy will probably be overpowered rather than useless.

 

 

At least in this case, the power has a price. Useless and Tedious, it should just be cut entirely.

 

 

I think one of the general problems with Alchemy systems in games, is Alchemy tends to focus on Buffing short term, which necessitates a lot of repetition in the system. I wonder if Long-Duration but complex potions would be better. Like an Attack or Defense buff that lasts 10-30minutes, but with a complicated recipe that takes quite a bit of exploration (most of which will of course, be organic to your travels) to assemble.

[Sylvius the Mad]

IRL, sure, but in-game, that's a 0 cost. 

It's not zero.  You have to find a relevant merchant.  The ring takes up a space in your inventory.  It's only a 0 cost if the inventory is unlimited, and if all merchant will buy all goods with no limit.

[In Exile]

It's not zero.  You have to find a relevant merchant.  The ring takes up a space in your inventory.  It's only a 0 cost if the inventory is unlimited, and if all merchant will buy all goods with no limit.

 

The space in the inventory is not a cost. An empty space adds no value. An item can just be destroyed at any time with no cost or effort to free up the space. And we know that all goods are fungible. 

[ladyoflate]

At least in this case, the power has a price. Useless and Tedious, it should just be cut entirely.

 

 

I think one of the general problems with Alchemy systems in games, is Alchemy tends to focus on Buffing short term, which necessitates a lot of repetition in the system. I wonder if Long-Duration but complex potions would be better. Like an Attack or Defense buff that lasts 10-30minutes, but with a complicated recipe that takes quite a bit of exploration (most of which will of course, be organic to your travels) to assemble.

 

Also, complicated recipes are more fun! /cook

[AlanC9]

The space in the inventory is not a cost. An empty space adds no value. An item can just be destroyed at any time with no cost or effort to free up the space. And we know that all goods are fungible. 

 

Well, destroying the item is still a cost. Ever get close to the item limit in ME1?

[DumSheeps]

Actually i enjoy empthying my inventory at some shop, but i am with OP on no more loot like spider-boots, giant-ring, nug-bow...etc.

[In Exile]

Well, destroying the item is still a cost. Ever get close to the item limit in ME1?

 

Do you mean reducing to omnigel? The're is a cost in the sense that you're only getting the net price difference between the item sold and the item you destroyed, but if the other item is known to be more expensive then you're getting ahead. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

The space in the inventory is not a cost. An empty space adds no value. An item can just be destroyed at any time with no cost or effort to free up the space. And we know that all goods are fungible.

You're ignoring opportunity costs.  Not picking up the loot takes less time and effort than picking up the loot.  Not having to drop or destroy the item later takes less time and effort than having to drop or destroy the item later.  And dropped or destroyed items offer no value.

[In Exile]

You're ignoring opportunity costs.  Not picking up the loot takes less time and effort than picking up the loot.  Not having to drop or destroy the item later takes less time and effort than having to drop or destroy the item later.  And dropped or destroyed items offer no value.

 

There is no opportunity cost of time in-game, because time stands still. If we're talking about opportunity cost to the player, then we're going to have to talk about the next best alternative available, and that just turns on the amount of time the player has (does the player want to invest [x] minutes doing [y] or [z]?) but that's totally outside the game's own reality. 

[AlanC9]

Do you mean reducing to omnigel? The're is a cost in the sense that you're only getting the net price difference between the item sold and the item you destroyed, but if the other item is known to be more expensive then you're getting ahead.

What I meant was the time and tedium cost to the player, not the in-universe cost. I was arguably going a bit OT there, though. Are we talking in-universe or not?

[Sylvius the Mad]

There is no opportunity cost of time in-game, because time stands still. If we're talking about opportunity cost to the player, then we're going to have to talk about the next best alternative available, and that just turns on the amount of time the player has (does the player want to invest [x] minutes doing [y] or [z]?) but that's totally outside the game's own reality. 

I thought that's what we were talking about.  Someone earlier in the thread was complaining that it was annoying to have to trek back out of the dungeon carrying all the loot.  I suggested that he shouldn't pick up all that loot.

 

Since the quests all wait for us, time basically never passes within the game at all.

[In Exile]

What I meant was the time and tedium cost to the player, not the in-universe cost. I was arguably going a bit OT there, though. Are we talking in-universe or not?

 

I thought we were talking in universe, but it sounds like I missed the point. Inventory bloat is very aggravating as a player, but I don't see why simply not picking things up is a solution (as others have said repeatedly in the thread). 

 

I thought that's what we were talking about.  Someone earlier in the thread was complaining that it was annoying to have to trek back out of the dungeon carrying all the loot.  I suggested that he shouldn't pick up all that loot.

 

Since the quests all wait for us, time basically never passes within the game at all.

 

Right, I see what you're saying. I think it's a good point. My apologies for misunderstanding; we so often talk in-universe that I failed to appreciate the context of the thread.  

[Sylvius the Mad]

Right, I see what you're saying. I think it's a good point. My apologies for misunderstanding; we so often talk in-universe that I failed to appreciate the context of the thread.  

That's okay.  I compartmentalise these discussions (much like my roleplaying), so I'm not necessarily using the same assumptions from one to the next.

[AlanC9]

I thought we were talking in universe, but it sounds like I missed the point. Inventory bloat is very aggravating as a player, but I don't see why simply not picking things up is a solution (as others have said repeatedly in the thread). 

I agree that not picking stuff up doesn't really help much, unless we're late enough in the game that I really don't care about more stuff. I never actually get to that point in DA2 because usually I want more potions.

[In Exile]

I agree that not picking stuff up doesn't really help much, unless we're late enough in the game that I really don't care about more stuff. I never actually get to that point in DA2 because usually I want more potions.

 

The real issue, I think, is that most items are just garbage sold for coins. The economic has to be revamped where the majority of income doesn't come from selling old boots to bakers, and items have to have more use than a coupon for coins. 

[In Exile]

It's worth pointing out that in DA ][ the junk items had very little value, only a few silvers for a couple dozen items. One might argue that you could play through the game without picking up any junk items and not miss a step (I certainly could, all I buy are the attribute points or talent points).

 

That's true, but then DAII had big problems with loot period, since you couldn't  use the majority of items you picked up because of how the companion gear system worked without mods. 

[In Exile]

Very true. That wasn't the junk part, though--that was the viable stuff. While I'd agree the armor system was problematic, I'd say they did the junk part pretty well (if it's got to be part of a game at ALL, I personally don't really see much pleasure in carrying around 50 Trade Manifests or Blank Vellums).

 

All I mean is that if I wasn't picking up and selling literal junk, the end result would be that I'd never even interact with merchants, because warrior and rogue armour for my mage was also just junk.