85 réponses à ce sujet

[miltos33]

[quote]Alesia_BH wrote...

There is part of the cake that my Druid can't eat though- she does lose out on a lot of offense.

Hmmm, It's been a while now that I want to role play a druid like character and the only way I can imagine this character is by taking the shapeshifter and keeper specializations and focusing on the primal and creation schools.

However, what has stopped me from doing so is the consensus that the shapeshifter is more or less a useless specialization although I once maxed Morrigan's shapeshifting and despite the fact that she wasn't built very carefully she wasn't really all that bad.

So, apart from role playing I wonder if a build like this could be viable as well and if you have any tips to share? 

[old book]

There's a very good thread on making an effective shapeshifter with no mods. Personally, I've used Morrigan as a Shapeshifter/Arcane Warrior and found her pretty effective (though probably not as powerful as she would have been if properly minmaxed). I was also using a mod that made Shapeshifting instant, which certainly shifts the balance.



SS/AW works best as a caster who then switches to an animal shape when almost out of Mana, or when facing a single boss after the minions have been taken care of. The Animal form inherits the stat boosts of any equipment, and all attacks auto hit if the Mage had a staff equiped when she shifted. Animal forms cant be grabbed, which makes them immune to one of the nastier boss attacks, do fair damage, and have fair special attacks of their own.



I had Morrigan set to instant shift when her Mana dropped under 10%, and only got her Combat Magic in the AW line so she could use equipment. She'd bombard the enemy with crowd control and damage spells, then become a bear (with bonuses from her equipment) and charge in when she was done casting. Had I min-maxed her as per the SS thread she might have been more effective, but as it was she was a good CC caster and solid off tank.

[old book]

Alesia_BH wrote...

You know, one poster, Agni008, has been trying to get a No Reload Challenge thread going here but he's been posting them in the Story and General Discussion Forums.  I think there may be more takers in the Tactics Forum. Perhaps we can encourage him to try it there? In the alternative, I can start the thread. I'd enter Alora. Would you be interested in entering your Arcane Warrior or some other character? 

Sure.

I'm starting a new Hard Dead is Dead run now with Slinks S3 Random Drops installed and a "No purchased Equipment" rule. I've always disliked the idea that Legendary Magic Items are for sale at shops, and so usually try to run without them in later playthroughs.

The Random Drops mod spawns random items at about the same level as those in the vanilla game, with bosses dropping more powerful items (close to the best you can buy). It makes the game easier if you also buy items, but the balance stays the same or becomes a bit harder if you only use items you find.

[Alesia_BH]

miltos33 wrote...

Hmmm,
It's been a while now that I want to role play a druid like character
and the only way I can imagine this character is by taking the
shapeshifter and keeper specializations and focusing on the primal and
creation schools.

So, apart from role playing I wonder if a build like this could be viable as well and if you have any tips to share? 

Maybe we can talk about that in PM Miltos33- it's kind of off topic in this thread.


Trying to kind-of-sort-of link this into the topic, I'll note that it's difficult to budget for added Con points if you are trying  to make the Spider and Bear usable, since  you need to allocate points to Strength as well as Magic.  


Yeah, that was a tortured link... We'll talk in PM.


Best,

A.



 

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 19 juin 2010 - 05:11 .

[Alesia_BH]

Alesia_BH wrote...

You know, one poster, Agni008, has been trying to get a No Reload Challenge thread going here but he's been posting them in the Story and General Discussion Forums.  I think there may be more takers in the Tactics Forum. Perhaps we can encourage him to try it there? In the alternative, I can start the thread. I'd enter Alora. Would you be interested in entering your Arcane Warrior or some other character? 

old book wrote...

Sure.

Yeah! Now we have 2. That's a start.

I suppose we need to let this thread get back on topic though right?


Best,

A.

[ladydesire]

Is the No-Reload challenge limited to Bioware-only classes? If not, I'd like to enter Elissa Cousland, who is a Tevinter Warden class character http://social.bioware.com/project/815/

[Alesia_BH]

ladydesire wrote...

Is the No-Reload challenge limited to Bioware-only classes? If not, I'd like to enter Elissa Cousland, who is a Tevinter Warden class character http://social.bioware.com/project/815/

Yeah! Now we have 3. (Maybe).

I'm inclined to say yes Ladydesire.

When we did the No Reload Challenges in the Baldur's Gate forums, we allowed custom kits. The logic being that the purpose of the challenges was to to share tactics and our mutual enjoyment of the game and the use of custom kits was consistent with that vision.

So long as the kits fell within the range of variation of those available in the original game. And so long as the player clearly and precisely stated the features of the kit so that the community could relate to the characters accomplishments, it fell within the rules of the challenge. That makes sense to me in the Dragon Age world as well.

That said, what we'd ultimately be able to do in the thread would be a function of what the community wants and I can't say that I have much of a read on this group yet. There may have been some identity and community specific reasons why people happily accepted the kit rule in the Baldur's Gate forums. I don't know. Were I to start a No Reload Challenge  thread here, I'd state a liberal custom class rule and justify it. However, if there was a ground swell of opposition, it could end up being altered.

Personally, sure: I'd love to see your Warden in action. Hopefully I'm not alone.


Wow. We're definitely in full fledge hijack mode in this thread now- though I suppose the Challenge would end up providing the best answers to No Reload build questions so there is a connection of sorts...

Still, I guess we need to let this one get back on track and continue our No Reload Challenge Discussion elswhere. I'd be happy to field PMs.


Best,

A.


FYI: Links to the original Baldur's Gate No Reload Challenge threads . The challenge is still active after 4 years. They may give people some ideas for posting formats.

http://forums.biowar...479561&forum=20
http://forums.biowar...722548&forum=20

http://forums.biowar...472526&forum=18
http://forums.biowar...712870&forum=18

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 20 juin 2010 - 10:45 .

[Arttis]

Do you think it is possible to make an ok character who focuses all on con?

I know if i make a warrior i can have the most health in the game.

Most warriors start with 15 str.

Fade gives 4 str/helm+2/belt+1/weapon+1/key to the city +2.

So makes for +10 str for equipping items that req. 25 str with a base 19 str

Can you think of a warrior that can handle those restrictions to stats and make a good build from it.

[Elhanan]

^ Probably will survive, but I would find it dull playing a whipping board....

[Alesia_BH]

Arttis wrote...

Do you think it is possible to make an ok character who focuses all on con?
I know if i make a warrior i can have the most health in the game.
Most warriors start with 15 str.
Fade gives 4 str/helm+2/belt+1/weapon+1/key to the city +2.
So makes for +10 str for equipping items that req. 25 str with a base 19 str
Can you think of a warrior that can handle those restrictions to stats and make a good build from it.

I'm really reluctant to comment on Warriors Arttis- that's outside of my circle of competence. I haven't done any experimenting there.

One of the reasons investing in Con works for my Druid is that she relies on her Staves, Stinging Swarm, and Bombs for damage. Now, the Staves don't miss irrespective of stats and her Spellpower really isn't that bad given that she has Arcane Mastery and Spell Wisp. For her, the Damage versus Health Point tradeoff ends up working out relatively well- especially when you take into account that she spends less time healing herself thanks to the high Health Point total and Master Herbalism.

The other reason is that her Spells, Items, and Incenses of Awareness can keep her defense score in the unhittable range. The Dex-Con tradeoff is therefore favorable for her as well.

The logic differs with Warriors since Defense, Damage, and To Hit scale agressively with stats. I doubt the tradeoffs would be as favorable there.

In general, the Con heavy approach is interesting for characters that satisfy 2 conditions: A) their defense score is already in the unhittable range, damage output doesn't scale agressively with stats. I'm finding it hard to see how a Warrior could satisfy those conditions. But again, I don't really appreciate the contours of the class at the moment.   

Best of luck with your warrior Arttis!


A.

 

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 21 juin 2010 - 03:26 .

[Last Darkness]

Con is a useless stat unless you invest in it HEAVILY, it only gives +5 health per point. Certain build it can be useful or differant. Like the Arcane Warrior/Blood Mage build tahts 2 Magic and 1 Con every level.

You would seriusly get a far FAR larger return on investing into Dex instead for some classes.

Even then party makeup and how you pull and abilities will play more of a effect on your "No reloads" point

[Alesia_BH]

Last Darkness wrote...

Con is a useless stat unless you invest in it HEAVILY, it only gives +5 health per point.

Setting aside the potential need to allocate Con points strategically at particular stages of the adventure in a solo No Reload, I'd agree that you'd have to invest a significant number of points to notice a difference.

In a No Reload game though, those points only have to save your character once to justify themselves.

You would seriusly get a far FAR larger return on investing into Dex instead for some classes.

Agreed.

Even then party makeup and how you pull and abilities will play more of a effect on your "No reloads" point

I competely agree with that. In No Reload games, tactics and battlefield management are absolutely critical- especially when you are solo. If you make mistakes, your luck will run out.

I'm guessing you'd also agree that build remains relevant and that one should strive for synergy between tactics and build.


Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 20 juin 2010 - 08:04 .

[miltos33]

@old book: Sorry for being late and thanks for the info.



@Alesia_BH: I apologise for being late and thanks for the tip. I recently started a blood mage/battlemage and that's why my interest in constitution a stat that I always used to neglect in all my previous builds.



And you are right it's probably best not to derail this thread and when I start my druid like character I may have to PM you for more details.

[Unrefined-Nemesis]

I'm seeing a pattern that everyone whose done the No Reload challenge is on a Arcane warrior or a Mage.

Since potions and tactical pausing is allowed. Allow me to share my build of a warrior whose done this run.

STR: 70 after fade bonuses and equipment
DEX: 30 after fade bonuses and equipment
WILL: 25 after fade bonuses and equipment
MAGIC: BASE
CUNNING: 16
Constitution: 35 after fade bonuses and equipment not with livegiver though with livegiver it was 45

2 Hander Warrior.
Gear:
Evon + Wade's
Starfang 3 runes Magic resist.
Spellward
Key to the city
Lifegiver and sometimes Harvest festival ring
Andruil's blessing.

Sure it does lesser damage than a pure str 2hander but it has survived a solo nightmare run with no reloads. A crap ton of potions and swift salves are your best friends.

Modifié par Unrefined-Nemesis, 20 juin 2010 - 03:55 .

[TBastian]

Con is a supporting stat, and will always be one (even Guardians don't need that much). Once you have your survivability and damage covered you get better returns for putting a few points in it than raising strength or dex, depending on party composition and gear availability.

Party composition: a Shielder doesn't need to invest heavily in dex anymore if the party mage knows his way around support spells, or if the party mage is capable of wiping out most threats quickly. In this case he's better of raising his str, or even con/willpower by a bit. While putting more dex seems to make more sense individually, party-wise it doesn't matter when you have less to tank/you're loaded with buffs.

Gear availability comes into play when there's more than one type of any class in the party. Two warriors need to share, two mages need to share, etc. The guy who ends up using subpar equipment, for example, may need to focus more on his main stats rather than con.

Modifié par TBastian, 20 juin 2010 - 07:41 .

[Arttis]

so far level 2 warrior with 211 health with equipped items.
Would be 201 without equiped item.
right now i plan on playing normal with a group.
Not sure i can solo any difficulty level with his set up.
Maybe do nightmare?
Never mind il do nightmare with group.

lvl 3 232 health 222 without item

Modifié par Arttis, 20 juin 2010 - 08:14 .

[Last Darkness]

Well solo NM runs are becoming boring because people are using the optimal build for ever class.

Mages = DPS or Arcane Warriors, Rogue just combat stealth and heal up, warriors just do their warrior thing.



I wanna see some sub optimal solo NM runs lol. Wheres a pure shapeshifter mage doing a solo run? How about a Ranger/Duelest rogue? or a berserker/Reaver run?

[Alesia_BH]

Unrefined-Nemesis wrote...

I'm seeing a pattern that everyone whose done the No Reload challenge is on a Arcane warrior or a Mage.

Since potions and tactical pausing is allowed. Allow me to share my build of a warrior whose done this run.

Congrats on finishing a Nightmare Solo No Reload Unrefined Nemesis. Very well done!

I would have loved to have seen your character in action.

STR: 70 after fade bonuses and equipment
DEX: 30 after fade bonuses and equipment
WILL: 25 after fade bonuses and equipment
MAGIC: BASE
CUNNING: 16
Constitution: 35 after fade bonuses and equipment not with livegiver though with livegiver it was 45

2 Hander Warrior.
Gear:
Evon + Wade's
Starfang 3 runes Magic resist.
Spellward
Key to the city
Lifegiver and sometimes Harvest festival ring
Andruil's blessing.

That's interesting. (*)

The Con number is about what I had in mind for my upcoming No Reload Arcane Warrior.

I expected to see the Knight Commander Armor listed. Did you just use it on an as needed basis?

Edit: When I initially replied, I hadn't read your post closely enough. I thought you had built a strength based mage. I've heard reports that that approach can be surprisingly effective and thought that you might have figured out ways to take it up a notch. Sorry!

A crap ton of potions and swift salves are your best friends.

Agreed.


Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 21 juin 2010 - 05:45 .

[Alesia_BH]

Last Darkness wrote...

Well solo NM runs are becoming boring because people are using the optimal build for ever class.
Mages = DPS or Arcane Warriors, Rogue just combat stealth and heal up, warriors just do their warrior thing.

I wanna see some sub optimal solo NM runs lol. 

That's one of the reasons why I built my Druid in the first place: for a challenge. Soloing Nightmare using only the Base Tree, Shapeshifting, and the Creation School was an interesting experience (a bit like soloing Nightmare with Wynne but without the Rock Armor, Stonefist, and Earthquake). It took a look of reloads -and she was a heavy drinker- but it was still satisfying.

I've been enjoying her No Reload run far more though. I'm hoping I can tweak her build for a high level Solo No Reload- without compromising her Druidic identity. 

In general, invoking the No Reload rule is a good way to put the excitement back into the adventure.

How about a Ranger/Duelest rogue?

I've done that one- and I'm certainly not alone. It works well actually. The pets are very helpful- as are the Duelist defense bonuses.

TBastian wrote...

Con is a supporting stat, and will always be one

Unless you are writing "The Adventures of Sir Spam: Meat in a Can"


Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 20 juin 2010 - 10:51 .

[Alesia_BH]

Post Deleted...

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 20 juin 2010 - 10:16 .

[ladydesire]

I will likely set up two characters for a No-Reload Challenge:



Elissa Cousland: Human Noble Tevinter Warden



Melissa Cousland: Human Noble Rogue



The following mods will be active for my playthroughs:



Tevinter Warden class (needed for Elissa)

Of Noble Cast (makes minor changes to Human Noble Origin, but I will not use the gear I gain with it after I reach Ostagar)

Ser Gilmore NPC (adds recruitable Ser Gilmore to Lothering)



I will post starting stats for these characters once I've created them.

[Alesia_BH]

Sounds good Ladydesire. I look forward to seeing your characters in action.

If you are eager to begin, the Dragon Age No Reload Challenge Thread started by Agni108 can be found over in the Quest and Storyline Forum. Link below.

http://social.biowar...7/index/1665456

I'll talk to him about relocating to Tactics soon.


Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 21 juin 2010 - 11:43 .

[Unrefined-Nemesis]

Alesia_BH wrote...

Unrefined-Nemesis wrote...

I'm seeing a pattern that everyone whose done the No Reload challenge is on a Arcane warrior or a Mage.

Since potions and tactical pausing is allowed. Allow me to share my build of a warrior whose done this run.

Congrats on finishing a Nightmare Solo No Reload Unrefined Nemesis. Very well done!

I would have loved to have seen your character in action.

STR: 70 after fade bonuses and equipment
DEX: 30 after fade bonuses and equipment
WILL: 25 after fade bonuses and equipment
MAGIC: BASE
CUNNING: 16
Constitution: 35 after fade bonuses and equipment not with livegiver though with livegiver it was 45

2 Hander Warrior.
Gear:
Evon + Wade's
Starfang 3 runes Magic resist.
Spellward
Key to the city
Lifegiver and sometimes Harvest festival ring
Andruil's blessing.

That's interesting. (*)

The Con number is about what I had in mind for my upcoming No Reload Arcane Warrior.

I expected to see the Knight Commander Armor listed. Did you just use it on an as needed basis?

Edit: When I initially replied, I hadn't read your post closely enough. I thought you had built a strength based mage. I've heard reports that that approach can be surprisingly effective and thought that you might have figured out ways to take it up a notch. Sorry!

A crap ton of potions and swift salves are your best friends.

Agreed.


Best,

A.

Didn't go with a Templar Spec therefore the armour was pretty much coin deposit for me. Went with a Champion and Reaver spec. Berserker was tempting but a Debuff was way advantages to the extra muscle and penalty to stamina sure andruil's blessing removes it but Stamina is the real problem with a 2 hander. Indomitable was always on it is a must damn those pesky knockdowns and stuns. Precise striking was cycled on when need too. Pommel Strike + next skill = Perfect hit for some reason. 

Starfang had 1 Grandmaster Dweomer Rune + 2 Master Dweomer = 26% spell resist
Toss in Spellward  and key to the city = 58% + 4% more if I switch to ancient elven gloves if there are about 2 mages or more on the screen gives a grand total of 62% and if you're playing as a dwarf you'll have 72% but I played as a weak human ugly dwarfs throw me off. 62% was enough to dodge most magic spells except crushing poison D= but it doesn't kill you with the proper salves it does reduce your hp to about 3/4 or 1/2. 

I know the constitution is weird by everyone's standard and that Dex should be higher, but sorry the way I roleplay is that Warriors are meant to be meat shields and Dex should be only added for accuracy purposes though having the 30 Dex did help increase the defence rating but the Physical resistance of my character was high enough and the HIGH HP did help more than the extra defence.

You'll notice the difference late game though early game was a pain in the ass with only Blood Dragon Plate with its advantages before switching to Evon + Wade's. 

The + Healing Effects I know its glitched on 1.03 but nutkien's fix helped with it and boy its a help. Reduce the amount of gold on potions.

Call me cheap or cheating but i don't think that pausing in a battle then switching to effort armour for the +10 healing effects and the reflection + 15% along with the livegiver's 20% = 45% for a heal than pausing to switch to staple equipment to continue. 

Battles can rage from the basic 1/2 to 3 hours of combat. Yeah the built is for long combat so screw me if you want a fast game.

[Mr_Steph]

I use the points on dex instead and have items that buff my con.

[Arttis]

Well i started to play oblivion again sorry folks my con warrior will have to wait.