156 réponses à ce sujet

[SwobyJ]

I'd make the argument of respect more.

 

How long have I been telling you to get ready for the Reapers again and just what did you do with all that time you had to do so?

 

I think that in itself is a valid argument.

 

They really should be listening.

 

It is curious why they don't seem to be.

 

But I don't think that's where so many players come from. When they are actually challenged on why they are upset, and have to provide a reasoning for it, *then* the good arguments come out. But I don't think that's where the players come from. I think it is based on emotion and a lack of understanding others' perspectives - even perspectives that you disagree with and consider stupid. And that's okay here, because the Council showed itself to be wrong again and again.

[Farangbaa]

I'd make the argument of respect more.

 

How long have I been telling you to get ready for the Reapers again and just what did you do with all that time you had to do so?

 

Are you for real? Because they didn't believe your highly unbelievable story at first, they should blindly sacrifice their homeworld to save yours?

 

Again, are you for real?

[SwobyJ]

It makes zero sense, be it before or after the galaxy races decide to get on board. I don't see any Council race calmly accept the Coup and their Councilor get killed and then lend Udina some mlitary forces they badly need for their own homeworld, just to save Earth. 

 

I also forgot to mention that the Reapers still took over the Citadel anyway and apparently without that much of effort...

 

They wouldn't do it calmly. They would be coerced into it. Hey, those Alliance failed you - you have to come with us now, or die. We must evolve or die, through controlling the Reapers, not fighting or dying, through destroying the Reapers.

 

Most Cerberus actions we see, are done to sabotage the war unification effort of the Alliance and Shepard. They don't want people unified, passionate, and fighting. They want people lost, confused, and looking for.. sanctuary.

 

The Citadel would act as that Sanctuary. They wouldn't just kill the Council. They would make it an Omega (except with maybe less experimentation on the wider population), rule the place, and tell the other species that if they want to be safe at all, they need to abide by their rules, order, and goal to control the Reapers.

 

Since Cerberus plans keep getting pushed back, their ME3 plan doesn't come into full fruition. But it always moves foward, allowing TIM to feel confident about his chances, instead of concerned about his own indoctrination and placement as a pawn of the Reapers.

 

You can consider this all headcanon if you want btw, but I believe that the pattern of their story fits this.

 

~~~

 

The Reapers only take the Citadel once the jig is up. They're fine with things before that, and the Citadel acts as a pacification method (everyone living there in an illusion of safety instead of inspired to fight), and Cerberus disrupts any other forms of resistance.

 

Yes, they could have taken it any time. That's kind of the point that is progressively being made more and more clear - the galaxy is usually just a laboratory for the Reapers, and any act of resistance we do against them only stalls for time, while they are sure of their success. If a few monkeys (organics) maul a couple scientists (Reapers) over decades (millenia) of studies, that isn't yet cause to shut down the experiment, but perhaps even proof of some of their hypothesis.

 

Everything even until the Crucible was planned. It was the culmination of anomalous events (Shepard, the Crucible's capabilities, etc) that surprised the Intelligence (if it could be surprised) and encouraged or forced it into acting as our guide for the next step, whatever that may be.

 

But until then, taking the Citadel wasn't important to them, and if anything, kept leaders pacified just enough that they wouldn't unify with us to take Earth and contribute to the Crucible. They expected everyone to just sit and wait for the Reaping, and they were wrong. Once Cerberus went down and TIM warned the Reapers of Shepard's intentions... it was time to safeguard it and prepare for the Crucible fleets to arrive.

[Fixers0]

Nah, It doesn't make any sense. The Reaper could have taken the Citadel immediately and the start of the war with that disorganize the entire war effort as well as locking down the galaxy right then and there, but they didn't. In all reality, the Reaper invasion should have been a complete walkover, instead the Reaper's strenght and intelligance was reduced to what's convientent for the plot.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

It makes zero sense, be it before or after the galaxy races decide to get on board. I don't see any Council race calmly accept the Coup and their Councilor get killed and then lend Udina some mlitary forces they badly need for their own homeworld, just to save Earth. 

 

I also forgot to mention that the Reapers still took over the Citadel anyway and apparently without that much of effort...

It wouldnt be a matter of lending forces. If Udina was able to get into a position of power due to the coup being successful, there wouldnt be much of a choice once the orders started going out. More so if things went down and word of the coup didnt slip out because then the galaxy at large wouldnt know about change in regimes.

 

Though this is just speculation at this point.

 

Are you for real? Because they didn't believe your highly unbelievable story at first, they should blindly sacrifice their homeworld to save yours?

 

Again, are you for real?

Before Ilos? Understandable that they wouldnt believe it. Its hard to believe for those around you, much less for anyone straight up detached from the situation.

After Sovereign got wrecked at the Citadel? They damn well better start believing after seeing one first hand. Doubly so once they start examining the remains and seeing it doesnt match up with Geth tech.

After the SM and Shepard starts sending in reports for what went down? Only fools would ignore the truth at this point.

After Arrival? The Council are proven fools for looking the other way and getting involved in a petty and political case against Shepard doing what was needed.

 

Fact of the matter is, after Sovereign's defeat, the Council was nothing short of delusional as **** and disrespecting the (wo)man that saved their ungrateful asses when it would have been so much easier to let them die for the sake of the mission so that the full Alliance backup could do what the Citadel fleet was clearly incapable of doing on their own.

[Farangbaa]

It wouldnt be a matter of lending forces. If Udina was able to get into a position of power due to the coup being successful, there wouldnt be much of a choice once the orders started going out. More so if things went down and word of the coup didnt slip out because then the galaxy at large wouldnt know about change in regimes.

 

Though this is just speculation at this point.

 

Before Ilos? Understandable that they wouldnt believe it. Its hard to believe for those around you, much less for anyone straight up detached from the situation.

After Sovereign got wrecked at the Citadel? They damn well better start believing after seeing one first hand. Doubly so once they start examining the remains and seeing it doesnt match up with Geth tech.

After the SM and Shepard starts sending in reports for what went down? Only fools would ignore the truth at this point.

After Arrival? The Council are proven fools for looking the other way and getting involved in a petty and political case against Shepard doing what was needed.

 

Fact of the matter is, after Sovereign's defeat, the Council was nothing short of delusional as **** and disrespecting the (wo)man that saved their ungrateful asses when it would have been so much easier to let them die for the sake of the mission so that the full Alliance backup could do what the Citadel fleet was clearly incapable of doing on their own.

 

That still doesn't warrant them sacrificinging their homeworld and their populations just to save your planet. It's ridiculous.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

That still doesn't warrant them sacrificinging their homeworld and their populations just to save your planet. It's ridiculous.

I agree that even when ordered most wouldnt give you a damn thing. On the other hand, If Udina wanted their support, he could take them by force by ordering Alliance ships to take the aid that he wants by force. While in no one's best interests to do so, Udina wouldnt give a frosty **** if it meant he got what he wanted for trying to take back Earth under his own more than faulty plan.

[Farangbaa]

I agree that even when ordered most wouldnt give you a damn thing. On the other hand, If Udina wanted their support, he could take them by force by ordering Alliance ships to take the aid that he wants by force. While in no one's best interests to do so, Udina wouldnt give a frosty **** if it meant he got what he wanted for trying to take back Earth under his own more than faulty plan.

 

How is this even a response to what I said?!

[I Tsunayoshi I]

How is this even a response to what I said?!

Reading comprehension issues, or do you really not understand that I just agreed that no one would willingly do such a thing and that force would be the only means Udina would get what he wanted?

[Farangbaa]

Reading comprehension issues, or do you really not understand that I just agreed that no one would willingly do such a thing and that force would be the only means Udina would get what he wanted?

 

We were talking about the council's bs, which isn't really bs.

[Uncle Jo]

1) They wouldn't do it calmly. They would be coerced into it. Hey, those Alliance failed you - you have to come with us now, or die. We must evolve or die, through controlling the Reapers, not fighting or dying, through destroying the Reapers.

 

2) Most Cerberus actions we see, are done to sabotage the war unification effort of the Alliance and Shepard. They don't want people unified, passionate, and fighting. They want people lost, confused, and looking for.. sanctuary.

 

*snip*

 

3)  Since Cerberus plans keep getting pushed back, their ME3 plan doesn't come into full fruition. But it always moves foward, allowing TIM to feel confident about his chances, instead of concerned about his own indoctrination and placement as a pawn of the Reapers.

 

4) You can consider this all headcanon if you want btw, but I believe that the pattern of their story fits this.

 

~~~

 

5) The Reapers only take the Citadel once the jig is up. They're fine with things before that, and the Citadel acts as a pacification method (everyone living there in an illusion of safety instead of inspired to fight), and Cerberus disrupts any other forms of resistance.

 

6)Yes, they could have taken it any time. That's kind of the point that is progressively being made more and more clear - the galaxy is usually just a laboratory for the Reapers, and any act of resistance we do against them only stalls for time, while they are sure of their success. If a few monkeys (organics) maul a couple scientists (Reapers) over decades (millenia) of studies, that isn't yet cause to shut down the experiment, but perhaps even proof of some of their hypothesis.

 

7) Everything even until the Crucible was planned. It was the culmination of anomalous events (Shepard, the Crucible's capabilities, etc) that surprised the Intelligence (if it could be surprised) and encouraged or forced it into acting as our guide for the next step, whatever that may be.

 

*snip*

Edit: I'm considering TIM as not indoctrinated in this case.

 

 

1) How? By shouting at them? 

 

2) Most of the Cerberus actions we see are plainly trolling. TIM has nothing to gain by disturbing the war effort. His version of controlling the Reapers is far from perfect. He still needs time. Guinea pigs for the experiment are not the problem. The limited time is one.  If he sabotages the galaxy alliances, he weakens the resistance against the Reapers, thus losing time.

 

3) His plan is going nowhere. On the contrary, he's just sawing off the branche he's sitting on. 

 

4) It is, indeed. But that's not the problem.

 

5) Then the Reapers are going an incredibly hard and costly way to win the war. Or really having fun by making the war last more than it should, thus increasing their own losses. They're known to be highly efficient though. Taking the Citadel is the fastest way to destroy any organized resistance.

 

6) I don't buy the experiment thing. They're not interested in it. For them the story is already set in stone: Organics never change, always build robots and then die by the robots. They've calculated their cycle precisely so the organics don't suffer a total extinction because of robots they never ever face a too strong opposition. The only experiments I saw them trying is how to successfully merge Batarians with Humans or Turians with Krogan,so they can have cheap canon fodder.

 

7) No. The keepers being hacked wasn't planned. Sovereign losing thousands of years to open the Citadel and then miserably fail and die while the brat Catalyst was taking a nap wasn't planned. The whole freaking third game's plot wasn't planned.

[SwobyJ]

Nah, It doesn't make any sense. The Reaper could have taken the Citadel immediately and the start of the war with that disorganize the entire war effort as well as locking down the galaxy right then and there, but they didn't. In all reality, the Reaper invasion should have been a complete walkover, instead the Reaper's strenght and intelligance was reduced to what's convientent for the plot.

 

Consider it this way.

 

Imagine you're one of the highest masters of a slave city. For every one master, there's thousands of slaves. There's so many, that you have to afford them some 'rights', but for the most part, you're brutal towards them and may kill them and their children if it suits your purpose - and you do.

 

There's a revolt. A lot of its coordination comes from one quarter of the city - one that actually has a little-known tunnel that the masters could use to devastate the revolt in a fell swoop.

 

But you don't use it. Why? Because then, you won't find out why the slaves chafe so much against your oh-so-superior will, and how they managed to even take the city quarter since you thought it was secure.

You want to gather intelligence, keep the conflict ongoing but controlled, and send spies to stall the revolt until the right intel is gathered.

 

Can the revolt be squashed ASAP? Absolutely. You can squash it, over and over if you need to. But if you can figure out how and why it happens, as well as countermeasures, then you may maintain a longer-term rule over the city without you being caught in a chaos that you could never manage.

 

That is the Citadel to the Reapers in this Cycle. The Prothians did something that exploited a flaw in their plan* - hacking the Keepers. Now the Reapers want to test us for the sake of the Harvest and a greater control over the galaxy.

 

 

 

 

 

*forget about the Catalyst in this example. Keep it simple.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

We were talking about the council's bs, which isn't really bs.

Wrong. It is bullshit.

 

The Council had fair ****** warning since Sovereign was destroyed to get ready for the war that was coming. They could ignore the warnings and treat them as delusions prior to Shepard going to Ilos and the attack on the Citadel, but not for a moment after Sovereign got reduced to scrap.

[SporkFu]

We were talking about the council's bs, which isn't really bs.

I think it kinda is, though. I can't speak for the replacement councilors if you let the others die in ME1, because I can't really remember how they act off the top of my head. Having said that, Tevos comes across as an indecisive hand-wringer, and Valern just has his head buried in the sand. Sparatus is the only one even willing to listen to you, because his planet is being devastated just like Earth, but even then, at the meeting, he goes along with the others. It wouldn't take much effort to see that Earth is indeed "facing the brunt of the attack." and it's not much of a stretch to see that a united force might stop the reapers before they really get started. 

 

Their unwillingness to leave their own planets undefended is understandable, but their behavior is complete bs, especially after Sovereign's attack in ME1. 

[Farangbaa]

Wrong. It is bullshit.

 

The Council had fair ****** warning since Sovereign was destroyed to get ready for the war that was coming. They could ignore the warnings and treat them as delusions prior to Shepard going to Ilos and the attack on the Citadel, but not for a moment after Sovereign got reduced to scrap.

 

Yes, they had all the warnings. That still does not warrant them sacrifing their homeworld and their populations to save yours. That  would be bs.

[Uncle Jo]

Wrong. It is bullshit.

 

The Council had fair ****** warning since Sovereign was destroyed to get ready for the war that was coming. They could ignore the warnings and treat them as delusions prior to Shepard going to Ilos and the attack on the Citadel, but not for a moment after Sovereign got reduced to scrap.

A plot implying that the Council is still denying obvious facts and stucking their heads in the sand in the third (and last) episode of the game is an insult to the intelligence of anyone who played ME from the beginning. Same goes for attitude of the Alliance. 

 

On the other hand for someone who began with ME3 and doesn't have a clue about the previous games it's not that disturbing.

[Farangbaa]

I think it kinda is, though. I can't speak for the replacement councilors if you let the others die in ME1, because I can't really remember how they act off the top of my head. Having said that, Tevos comes across as an indecisive hand-wringer, and Valern just has his head buried in the sand. Sparatus is the only one even willing to listen to you, because his planet is being devastated just like Earth, but even then, at the meeting, he goes along with the others. It wouldn't take much effort to see that Earth is indeed "facing the brunt of the attack." and it's not much of a stretch to see that a united force might stop the reapers before they really get started. 

 

Their unwillingness to leave their own planets undefended is understandable, but their behavior is complete bs, especially after Sovereign's attack in ME1. 

 

Yes, them not believing the Reapers are coming after Sovereign is bs. But them not willing to sacrifice their homeworld and populations to save yours is not.

[Fixers0]

That is the Citadel to the Reapers in this Cycle. The Prothians did something that exploited a flaw in their plan* - hacking the Keepers. Now the Reapers want to test us for the sake of the Harvest and a greater control over the galaxy.

 

While this is a fine headcannon it doesn't unfortunantly change anything to the fact that conquering the citadel right at the start of the war is the most beneficial action for the Reapers in every tactical aspect.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

Yes, they had all the warnings. That still does not warrant them sacrifing their homeworld and their populations to save yours. That  would be bs.

See below since the same reply is going to apply here.

 

Yes, them not believing the Reapers are coming after Sovereign is bs. But them not willing to sacrifice their homeworld and populations to save yours is not.

 

Bull-******-****.

 

Their refusal to believe the goddamn truth that nearly killed them once, makes them directly responsible for nearly all the damage caused during the entire ****** war. Anyone with a hint of competence in their spines would have begun preparing for a goddamn war and making the alliances and advances needed to stand up and defend the main homeworlds of the races that were fully capable of doing something. I will admit that they likely would not have succeeded in such a defense, but that is much better than knowing that the one race is pretty much going to die off because of inaction, and another is being decimated for the same reason. The ME1 council has absolutely no excuse to deny the truth, especially while actively covering it up.

 

I wont speak for the new Council that comes in to replace them since I've never dealt with them, but I dont think they will fair any better in that regard.

[SporkFu]

Yes, them not believing the Reapers are coming after Sovereign is bs. But them not willing to sacrifice their homeworld and populations to save yours is not.

But at the time you meet with them, Palaven is the only homeworld under direct threat of that happening. Thessia isn't threatened until later and Sur'Kesh looks positively peaceful when you go there after Eve. The method of combating the reapers at Earth could have been debated but just imagine if they had all thrown their support behind the crucible project from the beginning. Humanity is on the council too, and the rest of them outright abandoning Earth to its fate is crap. Udina has a point when he says humanity will always be considered second-rate. 

[SwobyJ]

1) How? By shouting at them? 

 

2) Most of the Cerberus actions we see are plainly trolling. TIM has nothing to gain by disturbing the war effort. His version of controlling the Reapers is far from perfect. He still needs time. Guinea pigs for the experiment are not the problem. The limited time is one.  If he sabotages the galaxy alliances, he weakens the resistance against the Reapers, thus losing time.

 

3) His plan is going nowhere. On the contrary, he's just sawing off the branche he's sitting on. 

 

4) It is, indeed. But that's not the problem.

 

5) Then the Reapers are going an incredibly hard and costly way to win the war. Or really having fun by making the war lasting more than it should, thus increasing their own losses. They're known to be highly efficient though. Taking the Citadel is the fastest way to destroy any organized resistance.

 

6) I don't buy the experiment thing. They're not interested in it. For them the story is already set in stone: Organics never change, always build robots and then die by the robots. They've calculated their cycle precisely so the organics don't suffer a total extinction because of robots they never face never ever face a too strong opposition. The only experiments I saw them trying is how to successfully merge Batarians with Humans or Turians with Krogan,so they can have cheap canon fodder.

 

7) No. The keepers being hacked wasn't planned. Sovereign losing thousands of years to open the Citadel and then miserably fail and die while the brat Catalyst was taking a nap wasn't planned. The whole freaking third game's plot wasn't planned.

 

1)No. Through the Citadel appearing (even though it isn't) to be the only refuge left in the galaxy from the Reapers. False hope, channeled not through the Council this time, but through Cerberus (and thus the Reapers).

 

2)He knows he's short on time regardless. He doesn't care how long the Alliance stalls the Reapers - only that they are stalled. He doesn't want an Alliance that can work enough with others to allow the construction of a Crucible that can Destroy the Reapers. That's what he's trying to keep from happening. He wants control over the Crucible (first its plan, then its construction, and eventually the machine itself), and we keep him away from that, just as he tries to keep us away from forging alliances and unifying with aliens.

 

Mars - Keep plans from Alliance, and thus the Crucible

Sur'Kesh - Keep alliance with Krogan from happening

Bomb - Keep alliance with Krogan from happening

Grissom - Gather subjects for indoctrination, especially with engineering expertise

Citadel - Take Citadel, use it to coerce others into working with Cerberus instead of allying with Alliance

Ex-Cerberus Scientists - Take out resources that have turned against Cerberus, before they can help the Alliance

Thessia - Gain confirmation of the Crucible's nature and workings, and thus the steps to take next

Sanctuary - Gain confirmation of the prospect of Control over things of Reaper nature, which combined with understanding of the Crucible, is enough evidence for TIM to made a more deluded attempt for the Crucible

Cronos Station - Put up a defense and stall Shepard and the fleet, while TIM aims to be ready for the Crucible's integration with the Citadel..

 

3. By 'going forward', I mean in his own mind. He's the bad guy, you know? He runs off from a logical basis (the Reapers are just old machines that can be controlled as machines) and personal bias (humanity first, through directed evolution), that in his own mind advances with every step. He's never proven wrong, just yelled at by Shepard.

 

4. Kay.

 

5. They don't consider it a war. At most, the one Reaper says "finish your war". To them, it is but an acceptable loss as long as their agenda is advanced. At first, this would be to let the Reapers in to commence the Harvest (ME1). Later, it is to incorporate humanity into a capital Reaper (ME2). Once other factors come into play, yes, they do sit back and take some hits on the chin for the 'greater good', as they define it.

They don't want to eliminate all resistance at this point. They want to channel the resistance into a solution. Again, even as Shepard resists in ME1, he impresses Sovereign. And then in ME2, we have Harbinger seemingly fixated on Shepard. And now in ME3 we can get a clue why.

 

6. Yes. They suck. They're not seriously looking for a solution. However, imo, after the events of ME1-ME2, they're looking for one more than they ever have. The monkeys are rebelling. They're keeping us from entering the lab. They're disrupting our tests. They're running through the hallways and breaking the restraints. Maybe if that was happening, one might be curious about it? Being curious doesn't mean that they're sympathetic or cooperative. It just means that they can allow the experiment to continue in another way. They'll wait for Shepard anyway. He can have his war, and ascend regardless.

 

7. Can I swap 'planned' for 'understood as a logical possibility'? They're giant machines with supposedly benevolent motives. If they wanted to, they could just hack into us Matrix style and not even bother with any Harvest. The Citadel+Cycle system was the best they could do with what they had, and the goals they wanted to achieve. I don't believe that Synthesis or whatever was planned from the start by the writers (of course it wasn't), but this works just as well with the Dark Energy prospect. In either case, the Reapers let organics exist for a time, knowing that it could backfire on them to some exist, but being confident that it won't. You'll find that attitude with scientists all the time, so add in robo-god and....

[SwobyJ]

While this is a fine headcannon it doesn't unfortunantly change anything to the fact that conquering the citadel right at the start of the war is the most beneficial action for the Reapers in every tactical aspect.

So is bombing the London FOB with one hit. So is sending more than one destroyer to Rannoch and Tuchanka. So is shooting the Normandy down once its spotted (there's no way that their advanced tech wouldn't spot the Normandy on Vancouver).

 

The Reapers aren't fighting a war. They're conducting a harvest. Losing a couple of themselves for that is meaningful, but doesn't stop their purpose. That purpose is to obtain Shepard in the way they decide - just as it was for obtaining his dead and then alive body in ME2. They're already sure that they're going to win whatever 'war' is proposed by organics, and this can end up being their downfall and destruction.

[Kabooooom]

While this is a fine headcannon it doesn't unfortunantly change anything to the fact that conquering the citadel right at the start of the war is the most beneficial action for the Reapers in every tactical aspect.

Not necessarily. There is one (and only one) strategic reason for not doing so that is potentially logical. Other than this one reason, you are absolutely right - it would make no sense for them to not take the Citadel.

Remember what the alpha relay did? It linked directly to the Serpent Nebula. The reapers would flood in, through a single relay jump after reaching the galaxy via FTL and launch a surprise attack with no warning. So that's exactly what they were going to do.

But that plan failed, and they were forced to travel to the nearest relay and then traverse the network en masse. Now, there are two facts about the relay network that are often overlooked:

1) relay travel is instantaneous, but it still takes hours to days to traverse the entire galaxy. In ME1 it took the Normandy 15 hours to reach the Citadel from Eden Prime. For gameplay reasons, travel across the galaxy takes seconds- but this is not actually the case.

2) Relay travel is monitored. It's monitored all the time. A sudden increase in relay traffic can be taken note of, which is one of the reasons that it is impossible to hide the movements of a massive fleet - like the allied armada at the end of the game, for instance.

Taken together, if the Reapers sent their entire force towards the Citadel at the start, their travel across the network would be detected as a "holy **** there's a massive number of ships heading towards the Citadel" and they would close the arms, rendering it effectively impenetrable. There is a possibility of success and a instant win for the war, but also a substantial nonzero probability for failure AND the loss of the element of surprise. This is also a potential explanation why the races of the galaxy left the Citadel arms wide open for the entirety of the war - because they weren't worried about a surprise attack. In ME1, the only reason the Geth fleet could attack the Citadel like that was because of the simultaneous attack from the inside of the Presidium.

The alternative? Instead launch a surprise attack on Karshan for shock troops, and then a rapid blitz on Earth and Palaven to cut off the military defenses of the Citadel races before they have a chance to organize much. Javik tells you that in his cycle the Reapers allowed refugees to gather, and to take in indoctrinated refugees as Trojan horses. That is probably exactly what they did with the Citadel, and likely how it fell so easy to them late in the game (albeit off camera, but one can infer based on in-game evidence and dialogue).

It's still a brutally efficient plan, even without taking the Citadel right away. But it ONLY works if they would lose the element of surprise by trying - which the story actually does suggest. If not - then yes, it is absolutely, completely, 100% stupid that they did not take the Citadel right off the bat.

[ImaginaryMatter]

...

 

Perhaps, but the Reapers did attack Bekenstein, which as far as I am aware, can only be accessed by first traveling through the Widow system. If that is the case then the Reapers did manage to grease by the Citadel without raising too big of a fuss.

 

After Earth though I don't see why they would avoid the system. The Reapers have superiority over the organics. If they did attack the Citadel the best the organics could do would be to keep the wards closed but the Reapers would still occupy the system blocking off a major hub area of the Relay network and cripple the war effort for the organics. And due to the master control panel in the Keeper tunnel all it would take is a single Indoctrinated individual to sneak in there and control the station for the Reapers.

[SwobyJ]

Bekenstein. Tis' a silly place.