Guest_StreetMagic_*
Both sound damning somehow. US and Ritual alike.
With the US, I'm still not clear on what happens. It sounds like your soul is destroyed with the Archdemon's. If there's some kind of afterlife for Thedas, then that's an even worse sacrifice than mere death. You're just completely obliterated from any existence. Other than getting some statue at Weisshaupt. Even then, nobody will give a **** what you did anyways. Look at Garahel.
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Both sound damning somehow. US and Ritual alike.
With the US, I'm still not clear on what happens. It sounds like your soul is destroyed with the Archdemon's. If there's some kind of afterlife for Thedas, then that's an even worse sacrifice than mere death. You're just completely obliterated from any existence. Other than getting some statue at Weisshaupt. Even then, nobody will give a **** what you did anyways. Look at Garahel.
I thought of this once. It was very disturbing and actually a good reason to go with DR. I don't like the DR because of how it is done.... sex and morrigan getting control of an old god... yeesh. But if my soul is going to be obliterated as a result of killing an archdemon, that is something I DID NOT sign up for and she can have her baby. In fact, she can have a whole litter.
Also, as a player who has only played a male PC once, I get tired of having to ask alistair to do it. I would rather just do it myself. That's another problem with the DR. I really would care a lot less if I could just do it myself. As a male PC I didn't the one time I was a male PC. I sent loghain in for the US. But if I could do it, I would do it without a second thought. It's that I have to go down the hall and even bother with bringing someone else in on it that I am annoyed about it, especially the goody two shoes virgin or newly minted non-virgin who HATES morrigan. The whole thing is such a drag... really. It feels like just one more sexist bit of BS thrown into this game. Right up there with the glory of being a mistress if you romance alistair and choose to let him be king or marry anora. The whole thing sickens me so either he is not king or king and never married because he is with me no matter what his dialogue says. There's just something so tasteless about the whole thing that AGAIN smacks of sexism. I don't care what era it was, what the lore was, or any of that. Gaider had a free for all with women in this game and it's rather insulting. You don't see any of that sort of nonsense in Skyrim... which is why I really do love skyrim so much more.
Also, as a player who has only played a male PC once, I get tired of having to ask alistair to do it. I would rather just do it myself. That's another problem with the DR. I really would care a lot less if I could just do it myself. As a male PC I didn't the one time I was a male PC. I sent loghain in for the US. But if I could do it, I would do it without a second thought. It's that I have to go down the hall and even bother with bringing someone else in on it that I am annoyed about it, especially the goody two shoes virgin or newly minted non-virgin who HATES morrigan. The whole thing is such a drag... really.
I agree. I'd have absolutely no problem with it if my female Wardens could do the ritual somehow with Morrigan. I know that presents some obstacles, but they have magic, dammit.
The one time I played as a male, he was romancing Morrigan and it was an easier choice to make (though still with its own issues- he'll never see her again, etc.).
The one time I played as a male, he was romancing Morrigan and it was an easier choice to make (though still with its own issues- he'll never see her again, etc.).
Witch hunt will solve that problem. I usually romance her so it doesnt feel that terrible to do it especially when they are reunited in Witch hunt.
Also, as a player who has only played a male PC once, I get tired of having to ask alistair to do it. I would rather just do it myself. That's another problem with the DR. I really would care a lot less if I could just do it myself. As a male PC I didn't the one time I was a male PC. I sent loghain in for the US. But if I could do it, I would do it without a second thought. It's that I have to go down the hall and even bother with bringing someone else in on it that I am annoyed about it, especially the goody two shoes virgin or newly minted non-virgin who HATES morrigan. The whole thing is such a drag... really. It feels like just one more sexist bit of BS thrown into this game.
I agree. It would not feel that terrible if the warden could do it himself/herself no matter what.
As I have said before, to me the thought of Morrigan laying with Alistair or worse, Loghain feels so very wrong in every possible way. This is why I play with a male character and often romance her so I can do it myself and not feel that bad about it. The moment when this feels bad is when I have romanced Leliana. I still do it because I just cant bring myself to ask Alistair to lay with a woman he absolutely hates. I wonder if the warden ever tells Leliana behind the scenes about it. I dont like the idea that the warden keeps it as a dirty little secret.
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Witch hunt will solve that problem. I usually romance her so it doesnt feel that terrible to do it especially when they are reunited in Witch hunt.
I agree. It would not feel that terrible if the warden could do it himself/herself no matter what.
As I have said before, to me the thought of Morrigan laying with Alistair or worse, Loghain feels so very wrong in every possible way. This is why I play with a male character and often romance her so I can do it myself and not feel that bad about it. The moment when this feels bad is when I have romanced Leliana. I still do it because I just cant bring myself to ask Alistair to lay with a woman he absolutely hates. I wonder if the warden ever tells Leliana behind the scenes about it. I dont like the idea that the warden keeps it as a dirty little secret.
Yeah, the one plus about it is that if you are a female PC and have romanced Alistair, you can play up the idea that you are closer because you just did this so you both could survive this ridiculous fate you never knew about. Still, having to go through the conversation with Alistair is so old now.
I recently changed the dialogue I have with Riordan once we arrive at redcliffe to respond 'how are we supposed to kill the archdemon' which was pretty amusing how they made it like he was so shocked and then later apologizes because he thought you knew but then follows it up with 'but Duncan wouldn't have told you because you were new' which to me is terrible logic. Six months is still a long time to have kept it from alistair. Perhaps they should have made him a warden for more like two or three months. I think if they made it shorter for him the whole thing would have worked very well. It would have fixed a lot of things that just seem absurd. Two or three months as a warden is enough time for alistair to still believe they are these great heroes rather than a chunk of them having less than honorable histories without coming off as super naive. It's also logical that Duncan might have wanted to wait a few months to drop that bomb. Six, not so much. But two or three, yes. Even his mourning them might have made more sense because he just found a place that felt like home to him. Who wouldn't be furious to lose it so quickly.
I did it once. Well, had Alistair do it, but you know what I mean 
I prefer Redeeming Loghain. Everything works out for the most part that way. Dark Ritual feels too much like punting the problem to the next generation.
I did it once. Well, had Alistair do it, but you know what I mean
I prefer Redeeming Loghain. Everything works out for the most part that way. Dark Ritual feels too much like punting the problem to the next generation.
I have a question whose answer may greatly support doing the dark ritual.
If the ritual is performed, is a Grey Warden still required to slay the archdemon?
If not, then there is much incentive from from the pc's standpoint to do the ritual in case the wardens all die before even reaching the archdemon. Since the old god baby acts like a beacon shouldn't the archdemon's soul go to it instead of a nearby corpse/darkspawn/whatever when the dragon is slain regardless of whom; thus making the Grey Warden's killing blow unnecessary?
I imagine a Warden still has to slay the archdemon.
Otherwise killing an archdemon would be as simple as having a Grey Warden be in the immediate vicinity when someone kills it.
Witch hunt will solve that problem. I usually romance her so it doesnt feel that terrible to do it especially when they are reunited in Witch hunt..
True. I was thinking more of what he knows when deciding to do the Ritual that night (without meta-gaming). He can swear to her that he'll find her, but he doesn't know if he'd succeed.
The reunion was very nice, though, when they entered the Eluvian together. I also liked how keeping her ring had affected the story a bit in Witch Hunt.
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
I have a question whose answer may greatly support doing the dark ritual.
If the ritual is performed, is a Grey Warden still required to slay the archdemon?
If not, then there is much incentive from from the pc's standpoint to do the ritual in case the wardens all die before even reaching the archdemon. Since the old god baby acts like a beacon shouldn't the archdemon's soul go to it instead of a nearby corpse/darkspawn/whatever when the dragon is slain regardless of whom; thus making the Grey Warden's killing blow unnecessary?
I think that it wouldn't matter if it was a grey warden who did the killing blow since the killing blow without the ritual has more to do with attracting the essence into the warden to takes it and you've just removed that with the ritual. Anyone could actually kill it at that point I think. The 'death' of the archdemon itself is about the soul essence being destroyed because it jumps into something with the taint. The killing blow though, itself, just kills the dragon. Anyone could do that but they always do the same cut scene.
What I've always wondered about is how on earth the archdemon is attracted to a newly fertilized egg because taint or not, honestly, it is literally JUST fertilized. It's microscopic. Truly. MICROSCOPIC. And blood is not really even involved in the literal sense if I remember my college biology. It's semen from the warden. And it's a single sperm that fertilizes the egg. I can't seriously imagine a old god soul being drawn to that OVER the warden who is a lot more attractive unless something in the ritual were to make this fertilized egg very attractive to the old god soul. I really just can't imagine it shooting over to morrigan OVER the warden. Seems like it would go to the nearest tainted person. I guess that has to do more with morrigan's magic. Yeah, I guess it's more about some sort of magic that draws it to the egg. Otherwise it would go straight to the warden.... and I kind of wonder about the logic about the killing blow as well because if morrigan can set up a ritual for that couldn't all wardens have a ritual done so that anyone who kills the archdemon triggers the archdemon soul to go charging into any one of the wardens that has this ritual done so now it doesn't even matter WHO actually kills it but as long as there are wardens with this taint and spell that would work to draw the archdemon old god soul to it, then it would pick one of them thereby making the whole thing much easier to accomplish? That spell could come in quite handy.
I did it because my thinking was that the traditional way of ending blights wasn't really ending them at all, so I tried something new.
What I've always wondered about is how on earth the archdemon is attracted to a newly fertilized egg because taint or not, honestly, it is literally JUST fertilized. It's microscopic. Truly. MICROSCOPIC.
Because Plot. And Magic.
The Fantasy genre has a lot to answer for XD
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Because Plot. And Magic.
The Fantasy genre has a lot to answer for XD
I know. It's funny how sometimes it's like they don't even try to make it look plausible or make some kind of sense. It's fantasy so anything goes. Uh-huh.
Depends on my playthrough and what ever particular characterization, code, set of morals, etc my Warden goes by.
Male, Human Noble: Refused the Ritual as the Warden was wary of unknown magics. He may have accepted it as necessary if it allowed a better chance to defeat the Archdemon, instead of insuring that he survived the encounter. Loghain took the final blow.
Female Human Noble & City Elf: Was convinced by Morrigan's argument to insure their and Alister's lives so they could be together.
Female Mage: Refused to use such magic. Alister took the final blow.
Male Mage: Romanced Morrigan so ritual was done, of course.
Because Plot. And Magic.
The Fantasy genre has a lot to answer for XD
Hey, it's no sillier than believing in souls ITRW, and a lot of people do that.
I think that it wouldn't matter if it was a grey warden who did the killing blow since the killing blow without the ritual has more to do with attracting the essence into the warden to takes it and you've just removed that with the ritual. Anyone could actually kill it at that point I think. The 'death' of the archdemon itself is about the soul essence being destroyed because it jumps into something with the taint. The killing blow though, itself, just kills the dragon. Anyone could do that but they always do the same cut scene.
What I've always wondered about is how on earth the archdemon is attracted to a newly fertilized egg because taint or not, honestly, it is literally JUST fertilized. It's microscopic. Truly. MICROSCOPIC. And blood is not really even involved in the literal sense if I remember my college biology. It's semen from the warden. And it's a single sperm that fertilizes the egg. I can't seriously imagine a old god soul being drawn to that OVER the warden who is a lot more attractive unless something in the ritual were to make this fertilized egg very attractive to the old god soul. I really just can't imagine it shooting over to morrigan OVER the warden. Seems like it would go to the nearest tainted person. I guess that has to do more with morrigan's magic. Yeah, I guess it's more about some sort of magic that draws it to the egg. Otherwise it would go straight to the warden.... and I kind of wonder about the logic about the killing blow as well because if morrigan can set up a ritual for that couldn't all wardens have a ritual done so that anyone who kills the archdemon triggers the archdemon soul to go charging into any one of the wardens that has this ritual done so now it doesn't even matter WHO actually kills it but as long as there are wardens with this taint and spell that would work to draw the archdemon old god soul to it, then it would pick one of them thereby making the whole thing much easier to accomplish? That spell could come in quite handy.
This is why it's a ritual, and not just say, the baby Morrigan is supposed to be pregnant with if she romanced a male warden (without the DR). What is happening, isn't just sex, it's blood magic. Flemeth's blood magic.
And the devs have said, it MUST be a Grey Warden dealing the blow, even with the ritual. So if Riordan, PC and Alistair/Loghain all perished prior to the AD buying the farm, but Morrigan was still up and kicking, and someone else kills it, they have to go through all that again just as if there were no wardens present for the final blow. Her ritual just ensures the spirit comes to the unborn child, not assures the death of the Archdemon (permanently). That still requires a grey warden (though not the one who did the ritual apparently).
Guest_StreetMagic_*
"I laugh at a world full of stupid humans, who abandon their vigilance to chase after mortal goals. Pray not that someone else destroy the blight for you. It will always nip at your heels." -Flemeth
This is kind of offtopic, but this doesn't sound like someone who'd plan the Dark Ritual.
I usually do. Not so much for roleplaying reasons as because I don't want my Wardens (or Alistair/Loghain) to die. I've only refused twice, and both times as a mage so that Morrigan departing isn't so much of a loss. (And each time I let the other Warden in the party, first Alistair and then Loghain, die. I considered doing the US as my third mage, but elected not to.)
Both sound damning somehow. US and Ritual alike.
With the US, I'm still not clear on what happens. It sounds like your soul is destroyed with the Archdemon's. If there's some kind of afterlife for Thedas, then that's an even worse sacrifice than mere death. You're just completely obliterated from any existence. Other than getting some statue at Weisshaupt. Even then, nobody will give a **** what you did anyways. Look at Garahel.
if the maker can create a soul from the void, then he can rebuild the same frome the void.
those who believe in the creator will not be humiliated or at least so says the church...
I usually do the Ritual, since most the time I romance Alistair and want to keep both of us alive.
I still feel if your a Fem! mage(especially specced blood mage) you should have the option to be able to do the DR yourself. In my cannon story my mage is a blood mage who over time pulls the spell from Morrigan's mind. 
Dark Ritual. Draco Style
Uh... this thread is actually pretty old, but what the heck... I always refuse. I simply cannot trust Morrigan.
if you use an orlesian warden in witch hunt you discover that morrigan,yavana and his mother as well as the architect are the responsable of urthemriel's rebirth and for the devastation of the blight, because of them Maric disappeared and fereldean became very weak, i want to be a true hero like gharael or better, i do not need to become a selfish clown.
Sorry, you discover that Morrigan is responsible for the Blight? I've never heard that before. Could you please be more specific as to exactly what evidence the game gives to support that idea?
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