Fictional survival has no meaning,the redemption and the Ultimate sacrifice ending are by far more impressive as ending than a DR,which is lamely addressed in DAI.
Use blood magic on an infant and risk another blight,plus with Flemeth and Solas for 1 single GW? Just no
This was a great conversation, and I enjoyed reading both sides of the argument.
One thing I haven't seen brought up is that, as someone playing a female elf mage, yes, I agree that we have to convince Alistair to do the DR, which is no fun, but I disagree that he is coerced or forced into it.
Almost all of the posts on the negative aspects of the DR seem to feel that Alistair is being forced to do something, or as if he has no ability to make the decision on his own. I disagree. To me, Alistair very clearly has free will. He asks my mage's opinion but within the scenario as presented, he certainly has the option to say no. My mage never insists that he do it. The game's technical use of the word 'coercion' at one point I think has more to do with the character's persuasive abilities, as far as I remember -- I definitely do not ever believe my character is actually making him or forcing him to do something. He asks her if she truly believes it is the right thing, and she gives her honest opinion. The fact that he says yes simply means that he trusts the Warden (whether romanced or friend) and will do it because the Warden truly believes it is necessary and will save their lives while still accomplishing the greater good of ending the Blight.
In my Warden's case, a female elf mage who romanced Alistair, I didn't want either of us to die, and beyond that, I felt that one lone Grey Warden remaining would pretty much doom the future of the Grey Wardens as a force for good in Ferelden. My character had also gotten the highest friendship/approval rating with Morrigan, as well, so she trusted her.
At this point in the story, Morrigan had tirelessly fought the darkspawn, had risked her life many times for the Warden's, had shown friendship toward my elf, and had even broken down in tears at one point over finding a 'sister.' Yes, Morrigan occasionally asked her to consider all the choices in a scenario (especially involving power), but I always took this as Morrigan's pragmatism versus true evil. I believed in Morrigan's genuine desire to help my character, and also wasn't necessarily scared of an 'Old One' child, as the game itself had shown us several 'old ones' who didn't seem to be evil, and who simply seemed to be elemental and part of the 'wild magic' of the world.
Did my character feel icky for having the conversation with Alistair? Yes, as it's not a nice thing to ask him to do, even if he has the option to refuse. And to echo others, I do think we female characters get the short end of the ethical stick here since we have no choice but to have to ask a male character to step in whether we like it or not. (I really really wished she could have done the ritual herself, frankly. Not least because Morrigan was her girlcrush and she would have done it willingly, although she would have felt conflicted about cheating on Alistair even so.)
I do think the great thing about the DR is that there are excellent arguments to be made for both sides. I was really impressed by DAO's consistent ability to offer scenarios with really tough choices like this throughout.
I never thought the Old God child would be evil or monstrous or anything. I mean I had always assumed that it'd be a normal kid with Urthemiel's soul kicking around. Turns out I was right, but... I still don't like actually doing it. If you let Urthemiel properly die, you lose nothing (provided you let Loghain take the final blow to die), if you let it live you run the risk of it coming back to bite you in the ass.
I only did the ultimate sacrifice once, to get the achievement. There was no reason for me to decline Morrigan´s offer, especially my pc was usually in relationship with her so there was no question about it.
Yes I asked Alistair to do the ritual because I thought he didn't enjoy it anyway, so my Warden wouldn't be jealous. It was to save their lives.
I don't know why, for Loghain it's different, I guess I will try both endings. An ending where I let him do the ritual, because I want my warden and Loghain to fight together against darkspawn in the years to come, and stay friends. But in DAI I will change the tile in the DA Keep and make the warden sacrifice, I don't want the little talks between Morrigan, Loghain and Keiran, like a little happy family.
He didn't like the ritual, he truly didn't enjoy it, and yet in DAI, he sends his regards to Morrigan, like if it was a pleasant memory, it just doesn't sound logical to me. So, no baby for Loghain in DAI.
Yes I asked Alistair to do the ritual because I thought he didn't enjoy it anyway, so my Warden wouldn't be jealous. It was to save their lives.
I don't know why, for Loghain it's different, I guess I will try both endings. An ending where I let him do the ritual, because I want my warden and Loghain to fight together against darkspawn in the years to come, and stay friends. But in DAI I will change the tile in the DA Keep and make the warden sacrifice, I don't want the little talks between Morrigan, Loghain and Keiran, like a little happy family.
He didn't like the ritual, he truly didn't enjoy it, and yet in DAI, he sends his regards to Morrigan, like if it was a pleasant memory, it just doesn't sound logical to me. So, no baby for Loghain in DAI.
I look on it as it's been ten years, and regardless of whatever else Kieran is, in this instance he's Loghain's son. Maybe the reasoning Loghain has is "I was talked into this, but have no regrets, he's a fine boy any man would be proud of." After all, he does love his daughter. And maybe a part of him feels being part of this boy's existence makes up for some of the death he was responsible for in Origins. And his conversation with Morrigan in the garden is a nice one.
Anyway, it's a nice cameo for him. DAI is an awfully long game, I wouldn't suggest doing a keep tile just for that situation, but you can always UTube it (like I did).
DAI Loghain is a very different person from DAO Loghain. More settled, at peace with his demons at last.
I have played both ways as female and once as a male (did the DR myself). I prefer the happy ending.
yeah so do I. In my case though it depends on the playthrough and the character I'm playing. My last character sacrificed herself in an attempt to force change among the dwarves being a commoner and casteless to try to convince Orzammar to treat the casteless at least with more respect. All my previous wardens though went through with it. Haven't got that far yet with my current one but they will likely go ahead with the ritual too.
What with Awakening and the other DLC I need my Warden for, I would not consider going through with the sacrifice ending. Especially not after spending so much time with my character.
I much prefer to do the ritual with Morrigan, and there's little excuse to not do it if your already in a romance with her. I tried one playthrough where I sacrificed Loghain and I found it rather underwhelming. Going through with the ritual and culminating the romance with the Witch Hunt DLC by stepping through the Eluvian adds a lot more depth to my character's personal story than just killing the dragon and chit-chatting with an old friend.
I look on it as it's been ten years, and regardless of whatever else Kieran is, in this instance he's Loghain's son. Maybe the reasoning Loghain has is "I was talked into this, but have no regrets, he's a fine boy any man would be proud of." After all, he does love his daughter. And maybe a part of him feels being part of this boy's existence makes up for some of the death he was responsible for in Origins. And his conversation with Morrigan in the garden is a nice one.
Anyway, it's a nice cameo for him. DAI is an awfully long game, I wouldn't suggest doing a keep tile just for that situation, but you can always UTube it (like I did).
DAI Loghain is a very different person from DAO Loghain. More settled, at peace with his demons at last.
It's not about the boy, but about "sends my regards to the witch", smiling. He didn't see her for 10 years, his last memory of her is that awful ritual where he looked afraid/disgusted, so I don't really understand how he can now be, what, nostalgic about that? nostalgic about her? I totally understand that he could accept or even like the little boy, because he is his son after all, or even talk peacefully with Morrigan like he does in the garden. But he looks like he has fond memories of her or if she was a dear friend, and it seems odd.
I would need to change a lot of tiles anyway in my Keep for that second playthrough, because the one I did for my first DA:I playthrough is with Queen Cousland and dead Loghain, so...
yea not worth it for a 30 second scene.
I have to make a whole new "Dragon age keep storyline" anyway to fit my new playthrough, so I just have to click if Loghain did the ritual or not. I cannot keep my actual Keep I used for my first DAI playthrough because Loghain is dead in it. So I have to make changes anyway ^^
Of course! It seemed far more interesting. I wanted to see what would happen afterwards, but I still don't know what happened to her child. Also wanted my warden to survive for awakening.
The Dark Ritual has no ostensibly bad repercussions in DA:I, it is only a positive because the Warden gets to live. As for those who don't like the ending in DA:O, and prefer instead to let their character die, well that is your own personal problem. As for the dark ritual's place in the narrative, it was never going to have dire consequences because it was optional.
I just can't bother with it now. It had potential. Sex rituals with witches? Interesting. Fantasy does this quite a bit, but it only works when there are consequences. At best, it just seems like a way to live happily ever after now. There's nothing wrong with that, but it never interested me with her pairing (or just having a child). I think it's a good choice for people who really like Morrigan... but for every Warden in general? I'll go with US. And if you just wanted to live, Loghain's story is so much more potent, I think.
I refused DR only a couple of times for the achievement's sake. Otherwise, I always accept. Morrigan is useful in the final battle. If I don't play as a mage, I give her the extra tomes and build her as powerful as she could get. Why would I send her away before dealing with the archdemon? Besides, I always romance Zevran and have no intention of dying and that means I have to sacrifice either Logahin or Alistair if I refuse. .
The Dark Ritual has no ostensibly bad repercussions in DA:I, it is only a positive because the Warden gets to live. As for those who don't like the ending in DA:O, and prefer instead to let their character die, well that is your own personal problem. As for the dark ritual's place in the narrative, it was never going to have dire consequences because it was optional.
You do realize that plotline isn't finished. We don't know what Flemeth is gonna do with that power.
You do realize that plotline isn't finished. We don't know what Flemeth is gonna do with that power.
Flemeth? I think we can count on her not doing anything with it. If you wanted to disquiet people, you could ask what Solas has planned for it; he's logically the person you'd expect to have it now.
You do realize that plotline isn't finished. We don't know what Flemeth is gonna do with that power.
What Flemeth will do? Flemeth is gone, and there are still no ostensible consequences, only speculation and people who are ready to assume speculation as fact.
Flemeth? Gone? Don't be silly.
I find that "people who are ready to assume speculation as fact" are the silly ones.
Flemeth? Gone? Don't be silly.
She sure looks gone. She looks very, very gone.
I find that "people who are ready to assume speculation as fact" are the silly ones.
She sure looks gone. She looks very, very gone.
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