I don't like them because due to my dislike of breaking balance, it means I don't use them, so that's one less option for me to fool around with instead of having a balanced item I could have fun with.
That being said, I'll never complain about it, it's easier to ignore it.
It's hard for them to simply not use these items lol.
In my experience, it's harder to have yourself drawn into a game when you have to meta around poorly balanced mechanics or equipment.
On the other hand, if you want to be OP you simply push the difficulty to easy (Or lower) with a single visit to the menu.
On the other hand, if you want to be OP you simply push the difficulty to easy (Or lower) with a single visit to the menu.
This. You want the game stupid-easy, pointless, no-choice rubbish? Lower the difficulty or, if you're that terrible, use cheat codes and stop being a pain in the ass to people who want a game to play and not a win-button-pressing simulator.
Unbalanced content can damage the setting. Why doesn't everyone use this insta-win spell?
That's like asking: Why doesn't everyone use nukes?
This. You want the game stupid-easy, pointless, no-choice rubbish? Lower the difficulty or, if you're that terrible, use cheat codes and stop being a pain in the ass to people who want a game to play and not a win-button-pressing simulator.
First Order Optimal Strategies.
This is the enemy of depth in games. If you're having trouble wrapping your mind around why it matters in a Single Player game, Google that search term. Extra Credits (Youtube) is always a good place to start to get broad strokes on most concepts in gaming.
I think people just have a stick up their butts about it. They just cannot take that people play the game differently than them. I think they live inside their own heads where the world is just how they see it and everything has to conform to them otherwise it destroys their insecure mushy minds.
If someone wishes to be 'OP' in a single player game then it's their choice. It has no bearings on anyone else but them and they are playing the game that way because they want to.
If someone wishes to play it the normal or strategic way then that is their choice. It has no bearings on anyone else but them and they are playing the game that way because they want to.
Neither group of people has the right to dictate how other people play the game they bought with their own money. If someone who doesn't like 'OP emerged' is willing to buy copies of DA:I for everyone in the world than fine. Otherwise it's none of your business what other players are doing. People just need to stop, play the game the way they want to, be happy and stop being so butthurt.
This. You want the game stupid-hard pointless, bragging rights rubbish? Increase the difficulty or, if you're that desperate, don't use op gear and stop being a pain in the ass to people who want a game to play and not a combat simulator.
First Order Optimal Strategies. This is the enemy of depth in games.
Trudat.
Also, isn't Extra Credits still under the auspices of PA?
//EDIT:
Well, good thing your attempt to mock my statement made no sense, or I'd have to yell at you.
Guest_Puddi III_*
More sense of accomplishment when game is balanced and challenging. Being able to cleave through everything with an unbalanced uber weapon makes the game less challenging.
Trudat.
Also, isn't Extra Credits still under the auspices of PA?
I believe so.
It's perhaps the most important educational series on gaming. It dispels a lot of Arguments born out of ignorance. The "Personal Game" Argument against balance is a perfect example of Argument from Ignorance.
Trudat.
Also, isn't Extra Credits still under the auspices of PA?
//EDIT:
Well, good thing your attempt to mock my statement made no sense, or I'd have to yell at you.
Well good thing your just yet another gamer on the internet attempting to force his personal preference on others while insulting them or I'd have to yell at you. 
That's like asking: Why doesn't everyone use nukes?
If nukes were an instant win, everyone (who could) would use them.
It's not like Mana Clash places you at greater risk of having it used against you.
What would be one of the better examples of an overpowered weapon or spell/talent in the DA games thus far? Admittedly, I haven't gone through the full gamut of gear, since I usually go for what I think looks good than going strictly by stats.
Honestly, I have no idea where anti-balance people come from. Not only is the motivation inexplicable (what in the nine hells does anyone get out of one option trivializing the game and other options being useless, exactly?), the arguments are absolutely inane. At least in ME3 MP, it made sense that they were trying to get the most rewards the fastest -- ignoble, but comprehensible.
What would be one of the better examples of an overpowered weapon or spell/talent in the DA games thus far? Admittedly, I haven't gone through the full gamut of gear, since I usually go for what I think looks good than going strictly by stats.
Accuracy talent in DA:A is an example. Difficulty balance in the expansion as a whole was a mess -- you were 10 levels too high for every opponent -- but Accuracy in particular was bonkers because it would give you the most autoattack damage through bonus damage, crits, and all on a character with the highest range and enough defense to avoid anything but non-targeted attacks. You could down nearly anything in one shot. Four archers took 7 seconds to down the final boss on the highest difficulty. That's overpowered.
It was glorious!! I knew my dwarf noble rogue would pay offHonestly, I have no idea where anti-balance people come from. Not only is the motivation inexplicable (what in the nine hells does anyone get out of one option trivializing the game and other options being useless, exactly?), the arguments are absolutely inane. At least in ME3 MP, it made sense that they were trying to get the most rewards the fastest -- ignoble, but comprehensible.
Accuracy talent in DA:A is an example. Difficulty balance in the expansion as a whole was a mess -- you were 10 levels too high for every opponent -- but Accuracy in particular was bonkers because it would give you the most autoattack damage through bonus damage, crits, and all on a character with the highest range and enough defense to avoid anything but non-targeted attacks. You could down nearly anything in one shot. Four archers took 7 seconds to down the final boss on the highest difficulty. That's overpowered.
.
It was glorious!! I knew my dwarf noble rogue would pay off
On topic, unless I'm on days off I have 10-12 hr shifts, and if I find something that let's me burn through regular bandit combat (like a person with an Oedipal complex, hehehe) then damn right I'll do it. If I need my dragon age fix, pity the SOB that gets between me and my story.
That kind of proves the point of First Order Optimal Strategy doesn't it? People gravitate to the easy path, which means all the work to give the game systems meaningful depth was for naught. What's weird is that many of the same people who support First-Order-Optimal-Strategies are often complaining about the exact same thing when dealing with narrative choice. Imagine if every single Pro-Templar choice in the game locked away no content, while any other choice can and will lock out certain content. How many people would be willing to Meta around that?
I still haven't seen anyone reconcile their stance on OP weapons (And classes, spells, tactics) with the difficulty option. It just comes back down to the same "Don't like, don't use" metagame BS.
I can only speak for myself, but I think it's poopy when I find a weapon or armor with a unique appearance, only to discover that it's so overpowered that I don't want to use it.
That mod that added DA2 Grey Warden armor to DAO, for instance? Yeah. I loved it cosmetically, but I always felt cheap wearing it. And (as we can see from the sorts of Dragon Age Keep questions that are STILL being asked) not everyone is especially savvy when it comes to knowing how their game works, let alone how to edit stats themselves. (Plus, if I'm not mistaken, DA:I will have very limited, if any, modding potential...yes?)
Just a thought.
Well, all I was Saying is that I don't see it as a negative. If there is an OP weapon/talent/build,that's good for those who want to use it. I wanted to use it and I did, because I didn't view it's effects as negative. For those who view an Overpowered weapon/ability/build as negative, then there's no need to use it. Quite literally, despite the optim path bit, you lose any right to complain when you willingly use a tactic in game for your own benifit.
Again, an answer that fails to acknowledge a difficulty slider option. I've explained a couple times now why it actually does matter when a weapon, tactic or any other aspect of the game is out of balance. I'll go through it one more time, and pray to the Old Gods and the New that it's not completely ignored (again).
First you have to be familiar with two terms:
Cognitive Dissonance is being thrown around in the gaming lexicon a lot lately, as players are becoming more and more concerned with an immersive experience. If you're unfamiliar with the term, Cognitive Dissonance is basically the mental stress placed on an individual by holding two (or more) contradictory beliefs, values or thoughts at the same time.
How this relates to the argument at hand, comes in the form of the phenomena known as "Metagaming" .
From Wikipedia: Metagaming is a broad term usually used to define any strategy, action or method used in a game which transcends a prescribed ruleset, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game. Another definition refers to the game universe outside of the game itself.
In the case of Metagaming around OP tactics, weapons or entire mechanics, you create a cognitive dissonance because you're forced into a contradiction. That contradiction being Opting out of objectively superior gear for the sake of challenging fun, when the progression system of the game is a huge part of your fun.
This is the same reason I hate Skyrim's Crafting system. The infamous "Restoration Loop" Exploit is okay, because you're not forced to go out of your way to avoid it, you must go out of your to abuse it. But the regular crafting breaks the game all the same (And negates the entire looting mechanic) which you must specifically try to avoid.
I generally don't like long posts, but I feel the need to speak in great detail on this matter. I'm not trying to convince anyone to not like being OP, I'm just trying to show that there's very specific design reasons why poor balance is a problem in single player games.
I guess this proves that not only Mages can give into temptations? lol
Well, all I was Saying is that I don't see it as a negative. If there is an OP weapon/talent/build,that's good for those who want to use it. I wanted to use it and I did, because I didn't view it's effects as negative. For those who view an Overpowered weapon/ability/build as negative, then there's no need to use it. Quite literally, despite the optim path bit, you lose any right to complain when you willingly use a tactic in game for your own benifit.
"Tactic," he says. Is Arcane Warrior a tactic? I didn't realize it was. I'm pretty sure it's a spec, and a really cool one. So you're telling me "shove off, you can't use the Arcane Warrior in your game, har har!" because I don't want to trivialize an easy game on the highest difficulty already? And for that matter, what exactly do you gain from locking players out of a spec? If you feel for whatever reason that you need to use the overpowered equipment in the game, you're doing it wrong: you should turn down the difficulty setting in your game instead of artificially altering it by selecting overpowered gear.
Balance issues are nearly always bad. They remove choice by throwing the player into a situation where he or she uses what is effective over what they actually like, which just makes the game less fun and makes developer labor on non-optimal options effectively wasted. Works the same way with underpowered things. If the things you like are weaker than the alternative, you as a player may just be forced to swap to more effective items or classes that you don't particularly like. When you have good balance, your players can enjoy whatever the game has that suits them, not just what's optimal.
Accuracy talent in DA:A is an example. Difficulty balance in the expansion as a whole was a mess -- you were 10 levels too high for every opponent -- but Accuracy in particular was bonkers because it would give you the most autoattack damage through bonus damage, crits, and all on a character with the highest range and enough defense to avoid anything but non-targeted attacks. You could down nearly anything in one shot. Four archers took 7 seconds to down the final boss on the highest difficulty. That's overpowered.
Fair enough, though when it comes to DA:A, difficulty balance, I feel, is the least of its problems.
@efd731
Well it is not a negative per se. and yes i agree with you it is not because it is there that you will use it.
and you will not have any immersion or game balance problem because that how you want to play.
but it is not really where the bug bear is, after all if you don't want to use the special gamer pack weapon of death, it is not a problem don't buy the pack or if it comes with the game as DlC, we can trade it.
What bothers people with OP is the "normal game" OP breaking the game system.
for exemple in p&p aD&D, you have vorpal weapons, which is an insta-kill (decapitation) on critical and that fundamentally breaks the hit-point/level concept.
Now you can say i wont use it, but that will not prevent the and of level anti-paladin boss to have one.
since damage is usually a fraction of the hit point. Combat will have a large number of rolls and it is likely to roll a critical at one stage.
so the likely-hood of the insta-kill mechanically breaks the hit-point per level concept.
in game based on the chaosium system, where you have a fixed max amount of hit points, and where a critical is is doing double damage, it is not so much of an issue, because a critical is likely to do you in anyway.
the same can be said of the grease+ firestom+tremor combo in DA but the difference is that as you player you need to create the condition to make it happens. Ie it is not purely mechanical, you need to cast 3 spells (or break barrel and 2 spells) and a choke point and opponent can have protection against fire and falling over.
In my opinion is was may be too easy to do with two mages in the group but that's a different matter
Philippe
Balance issues are nearly always bad. They remove choice by throwing the player into a situation where he or she uses what is effective over what they actually like, which just makes the game less fun and makes developer labor on non-optimal options effectively wasted. Works the same way with underpowered things. If the things you like are weaker than the alternative, you as a player may just be forced to swap to more effective items or classes that you don't particularly like. When you have good balance, your players can enjoy whatever the game has that suits them, not just what's optimal.
If nukes were an instant win, everyone (who could) would use them.
It's not like Mana Clash places you at greater risk of having it used against you.
I just realized this today, but the cleanse spell in the DA2 spirit school is a spell that auto-stops enemy mages from casting. It's actually very, very powerful, because it can stunlock mages and make it very easy to defeat them. I thought that was a great improvement on Mana Clash.
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