109 réponses à ce sujet

[Loghain Mac-Tir]

 

As for killing new born babes ... That's not really something you should brag about 

 

 

Why?

 

If you have to ask, then you are just proving my point.

[TheKomandorShepard]

"Seems to know" and "actually knows" are two different things. I think you're giving more weight to her predictions than they deserve. 

At that actually knows is in case because that was presented in game... so playing with words won't help you...

preditctions and know what will happen to the person and many things aren't just preditctions  it is outright knowledge that she shouldn't know.

 

 

She also said that Hawke has as an important destiny or some sh!t like that, and then Hawke turned out to be one of the least important person in the history of Thedas, even Pick, the elven messenger in Ostagar, was more important than Hawke, because he at least gave the Warden a decent sword.

In fact he is important in fact that seekser went also after him along with the warden says something sure isn't that fame positive but hawke is legend even if he don't deserve on that entirely and thats from me guy who complain that hawke was mine of endless failures.

 

 

 

If you have to ask, then you are just proving my point.

 

Well i have to so answer on that.

[Loghain Mac-Tir]

At that actually knows is in case because that was presented in game... so playing with words won't help you...

preditctions and know what will happen to the person and many things aren't just preditctions  it is outright knowledge that she shouldn't know.

 

 

In fact he is important in fact that seekser went also after him along with the warden says something sure isn't that fame positive but hawke is legend even if he don't deserve on that entirely and thats from me guy who complain that hawke was mine of endless failures.

 

 

Well i have to so answer on that.

 

And how does being Omniscient make her evil or a puppeteer or whatever you are trying to claim.

 

That is because the Seekers were misinformed, they believed all the sh!t that happened in Kirkwall was because of Hawke, in actuality Hawke was just a stupid witness.

 

Because Killing newborn babes is a morally repugnant act, which no sane and even most insane human beings would never even consider doing, and if that does not concern you then consider this, you can't know for sure which newborn child is mage, unless they show some magical potency, there is no magic detection machine, So, how do you plan on cutting down newly born children if you don't even know which ones are mages and which ones are not?

[Black Jimmy]

Maybe not an Ogre, but I would like some Flemeth. I hope she's not the big bad though. I'm hoping her end game is as ambiguous as her character.

[TheKomandorShepard]

And how does being Omniscient make her evil or a puppeteer or whatever you are trying to claim.

 

That is because the Seekers were misinformed, they believed all the sh!t that happened in Kirkwall was because of Hawke, in actuality Hawke was just a stupid witness.

 

Because Killing newborn babes is a morally repugnant act, which no sane and even most insane human beings would never even consider doing, and if that does not concern you then consider this, you can't know for sure which newborn child is mage, unless they show some magical potency, there is no magic detection machine, So, how do you plan on cutting down newly born children if you don't even know which ones are mages and which ones are not?

 

Well what is evil it is up to you some peoples claim even that morrigan wasn't evil despite she was done to be stupid evil character and pretty much that is everything flemeth merit ,i will go she is ploting something another mysterious villain that does nothing and knows everything. 

 

Everyone in the world belives that hawke was important and was either hero for mages or their bane and ally for templars as i said hawke may don't deserve on his reputation in that matter but in fact he is important figure not because he is competent only because his legend that peoples think is truth. In fact devs before game were saying very same thing about hawke that flemeth said but i suspect that they screwd "most important person in thedas" part.

 

I don't or care if it is moral or not society dictates morality and most follow it standards not many think on their own this is about how effective it is and if it solves problem not about morality. We know that templars detect one way or another mage childrens and then take them to the circle so yet there is way to know.Another matter is that templar can sense mage well they can sense something weird about person that is mage but couldn't tell what.With new anti-magical order i will train better anti-mages more competent and ruthless and teach them how use their sense to detect mage

[Loghain Mac-Tir]

Well what is evil it is up to you some peoples claim even that morrigan wasn't evil despite she was done to be stupid evil character and pretty much that is everything flemeth merit ,i will go she is ploting something another mysterious villain that does nothing and knows everything. 

 

Everyone in the world belives that hawke was important and was either hero for mages or their bane and ally for templars as i said hawke may don't deserve on his reputation in that matter but in fact he is important figure not because he is competent only because his legend that peoples think is truth. In fact devs before game were saying very same thing about hawke that flemeth said but i suspect that they screwd "most important person in thedas" part.

 

I don't or care if it is moral or not society dictates morality and most follow it standards not many think on their own this is about how effective it is and if it solves problem not about morality. We know that templars detect one way or another mage childrens and then take them to the circle so yet there is way to know.Another matter is that templar can sense mage well they can sense something weird about person that is mage but couldn't tell what.With new anti-magical order i will train better anti-mages more competent and ruthless and teach them how use their sense to detect mage

 

Doing Nothing ?, She saved the Warden who single-handedly killed the Archdemon and stopped the blight with minimum destruction. I say that counts a lot in my book.

 

I really do not care to discuss anymore on the subject of Hawke, it always leaves a bad taste in my mouth...

 

Far be it from be to invoke Godwin's law, but do you 'hear' what you are saying? Killing an entire group of people, even the children, with absolutely no moral dilemma for the "betterment" of the society.. Now who does remind you of ?

[Adaar the Unbound]

It's not like she started the Blight.

I'm pretty sure Flemeth was not a part of Morrigan's plan for the OGB either, so..

 

 

The OGB was Flemeth's plan. The fact that Morrigan seems to have her own plan is cool and all, but Flemeth suggests a number of times that Morrigan isn't really outstmarting her as much as she thinks. So it's YMMV whether or not Morrigan is really undermining Flemeth. 

Morrigan actually said before the ritual that the ritual is why Flemeth sent her with you.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Doing Nothing ?, She saved the Warden who single-handedly killed the Archdemon and stopped the blight with minimum destruction. I say that counts a lot in my book.

 

I really do not care to discuss anymore on the subject of Hawke, it always leaves a bad taste in my mouth...

 

Far be it from be to invoke Godwin's law, but do you 'hear' what you are saying? Killing an entire group of people, even the children, with absolutely no moral dilemma for the "betterment" of the society.. Now who does remind you of ?

She saved warden for own benefit not for peoples or out of good heart...

 

ok.

 

Well that isn't much of problem now most of peoples already throw out their childrens out of their family after discover they are mage damn some even try kill them themselves. And that without telling them that mages are evil.When i will make mages complete outcast from society it won't be hard sure few individuals will still cause problem with that but i have solution on peoples like that well at least few.

[mikeymoonshine]

TheKomandorShepard's mage plan doesn't make sense and wouldn't work, this has already been established many times but he isn't going to stop believing it's a good idea so in my opinion we should just leave him to it. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

TheKomandorShepard's mage plan doesn't make sense and wouldn't work, this has already been established many times but he isn't going to stop believing it's a good idea so in my opinion we should just leave him to it. 

Of course it will work and i provided many point why it will not just scream "it won't work!"

[Loghain Mac-Tir]

Of course it will work and i provided many point why it will not just scream "it won't work!"

 

I think you are overestimating 'your' Importance, only crazies will follow that psychopathic solution, and despite what we have seen in the two previous games, the sane people far outnumber the crazies, so, If you think some guy like you just comes and says, "hey, let's kill all mages, including the children", do you really think everyone will get behind that stupid solution ?

[TheKomandorShepard]

I think you are overestimating 'your' Importance, only crazies will follow that psychopathic solution, and despite what we have seen in the two previous games, the sane people far outnumber the crazies, so, If you think some guy like you just comes and says, "hey, let's kill all mages, including the children", do you really think everyone will get behind that stupid solution ?

hah psychopatic please so how do you will call slaughter of elves that are supported by majority?Like it or not such things already have place in Thedas even without reason and my plan have a lot of reason... peoples will do everything for safety... and no it isn't stupid solution it would be stupid solution if that would be meaningless and it isn't it will almost entirely remove danger that mages present same for demons... 

 

That because you don't like that solution because you think that isn't moral doesn't make that stupid simple amoral but effective and that what is rly important in life not morality that is set by society.

[megamacka]

How were we her puppet?

Depends on what you mean tho. Flemeth helped you in the tower because the blight was a threat to her as well. She doesn't want to die, and you and Alistair were grey wardens. The only two left in Fereldan.

And she helped Hawke because she needed an errand boy/girl, and maybe she knew more  or saw something in Hawke. 

He/she killed a bunch of Darkspawn before she intervened, maybe she just saw that you had great potential and was best suited for her little errand.

[mikeymoonshine]

Of course it will work and i provided many point why it will not just scream "it won't work!"

 

Refusing to accept that you might be wrong about anything in any debate you have ever had on here doesn't prove your point. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

Refusing to accept that you might be wrong about anything in any debate you have ever had on here doesn't prove your point. 

empty screaming that "it won't work" neither

[Hanako Ikezawa]

empty screaming that "it won't work" neither

We've given many reasons, to which you all handwave away by calling the poster naive or stupid.

[TheKomandorShepard]

We've given many reasons, to which you all handwave away by calling the poster naive or stupid.

Yeah all of them "but thedas want love thedas never would accept murder" in fact most naive reasons that i crush it with examples how violent and cold place thedas is...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yeah all of them "but thedas want love thedas never would accept murder" in fact most naive reasons that i crush it with examples how violent and cold place thedas is...

Alright, try this one: Thedas won't like an organization that has nothing top check it from killing people. What's to stop said organization from seeing them as a threat like they do mages. The Grey Wardens are an organization that have no checks, and they are barely tolerated at best by the governments of nations. Some even decided to drive them away like Ferelden did for centuries. And the Grey Wardens are an organization that doesn't target people but monsters. If they targeted people as well, they'd have been killed off centuries ago.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Alright, try this one: Thedas won't like an organization that has nothing top check it from killing people. What's to stop said organization from seeing them as a threat like they do mages. The Grey Wardens are an organization that have no checks, and they are barely tolerated at best by the governments of nations. Some even decided to drive them away like Ferelden did for centuries. And the Grey Wardens are an organization that doesn't target people but monsters. If they targeted people as well, they'd have been killed off centuries ago.

Not rly? The wardens are accepted everywhere outside fereleden... Do i have say that templars target same thing mages and no country or noble can interfere in their job they decide about mages in every matter and country have to accept that even loghain was outlaw and when warden exposed that he said that he will face consequences when helped jowan that was declared by templars as outlaw.... so in matters of mages templars have every world and other peoples don't have...

 

Please how they would see as threat peoples that protect them from threat?

[mikeymoonshine]

Yeah all of them "but thedas want love thedas never would accept murder" in fact most naive reasons that i crush it with examples how violent and cold place thedas is...

 

All you are doing is proving his point. Only one person made that point, you have been given many other reasons (including practical ones) as to why your plan doesn't make sense. 

 

Your whole argument is based on underestimating certain factors and overestimating others just so it fits in with your opinion, this is not logical. 

 

Killing a whole massive group of people is not an easy task, especially not when they have magical powers to boot. You are also acting like there will be no backlash against this from non mages when there most definitely would be, and no you can't compare it to the elves. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

All you are doing is proving his point. Only one person made that point, you have been given many other reasons (including practical ones) as to why your plan doesn't make sense. 

 

Your whole argument is based on underestimating certain factors and overestimating others just so it fits in with your opinion, this is not logical. 

 

Killing a whole massive group of people is not an easy task, especially not when they have magical powers to boot. You are also acting like there will be no backlash against this from non mages when there most definitely would be, and no you can't compare it to the elves. 

Nope i didn't pretty much you make up things...

 

As i said genocide in thedas is common and mages are pretty much most hated minority in thedas as well most dangerous one.

 

Yep i can both are minority that is hated with that difference that with elves it are more prejudices and with mages hate is from real danger...

 

As i said majority of non-mages dislike mages or hate them another group won't care third very small will care i can deal with them.

[Orthiad]

Nope i didn't pretty much you make up things...

 

As i said genocide in thedas is common and mages are pretty much most hated minority in thedas as well most dangerous one.

 

Yep i can both are minority that is hated with that difference that with elves it are more prejudices and with mages hate is from real danger...

 

As i said majority of non-mages dislike mages or hate them another group won't care third very small will care i can deal with them.

I'm just curious how you plan of taking over the Tervinter Imperium. And for that matter the Qunari. When you have exterminated the mages in the human lands you will still have to deal with the Qunari. The Qunari have far better technology the humans and they have their own mages.

 

Keep in mind that the Qunari was only pushed back when the exalted march started using magic to countering the Qunari forces since the Circle train there mages and the Qunari does not train then a circle mages will often be stronger. Without the advantage of superior magic the Qunari will overtake the human lands.

 

In my mind you cannot convince the Qunari to kill there mages since the Qunari do not waste anything even a mage or they would have killed them off long ago.

 

All in all you will have heavy resistance in Tevinter, Qunari lands and Rivain.

[mikeymoonshine]

Nope i didn't pretty much you make up things...

 

As i said genocide in thedas is common and mages are pretty much most hated minority in thedas as well most dangerous one.

 

Yep i can both are minority that is hated with that difference that with elves it are more prejudices and with mages hate is from real danger...

 

As i said majority of non-mages dislike mages or hate them another group won't care third very small will care i can deal with them.

 

If mages are so hated then why does bioware give us so many examples of people who do not hate mages? Why did Templars seem more hated in DA2 for example?

 

Elves are a different race to humans and humans hold all the political power, elves are not their brothers, sisters, sons and daughters. There are many powerful nobles in Thedas with Mage relatives and there are even places like Nevarra and Tervinter that have mages with political power themselves. So no, not everyone will stand by and let it happen and there would most definitely be resistance against it from non mages. 

 

You can't just devide people into little groups, you have to look at all the factors. Doing something like this would probably cause a war and you would fail in killing all the mages especially now that they aren't tucked away in the circles. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Not rly? The wardens are accepted everywhere outside fereleden... Do i have say that templars target same thing mages and no country or noble can interfere in their job they decide about mages in every matter and country have to accept that even loghain was outlaw and when warden exposed that he said that he will face consequences when helped jowan that was declared by templars as outlaw.... so in matters of mages templars have every world and other peoples don't have...

 

Please how they would see as threat peoples that protect them from threat?

By the common people, sure. By the governments, not so much. They have some good graces due to the Wardens fighting off Darkspawn, but as I said that is because so far that is all the organization has really shown an interest in. If the Wardens started targeting the people of those nations, the governments would respond violently. 

 

Templars are restricted by the Chantry and Seekers to only go after mages. They can't go after normal citizens. 

 

Your organization has no checking system, so essentially can do whatever you want. That is why people will hate your organization. They are essentially thugs doing whatever they think is appropriate and have nobody to reign them in. So they can kill someone they think is a threat literally on a whim. People don't like having the possibility of death constantly hanging over them. People also don't like people having complete power over them. Plus the governments won't like you doing that, and you need their support to exist. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

I'm just curious how you plan of taking over the Tervinter Imperium. And for that matter the Qunari. When you have exterminated the mages in the human lands you will still have to deal with the Qunari. The Qunari have far better technology the humans and they have their own mages.

 

Keep in mind that the Qunari was only pushed back when the exalted march started using magic to countering the Qunari forces since the Circle train there mages and the Qunari does not train then a circle mages will often be stronger. Without the advantage of superior magic the Qunari will overtake the human lands.

 

In my mind you cannot convince the Qunari to kill there mages since the Qunari do not waste anything even a mage or they would have killed them off long ago.

 

All in all you will have heavy recistance in Tevinter, Qunari lands and Rivain.

 

I said already for now i don't plan attack tevinter empire now they can fight with qunari they can weaken each other for now. Without mages non-mages will have to start satisfy their needs with technology not magic and without magic theodasian societes will stop be destroyed or damaged by mages and disasters caused by them so thedas will start relly on safe , stable and superior to magic technology.

Tevinter won't care about non-tevinter mages i doubt it would even about their mages as long they would stay in charge. Rivian mages were already slaughtered by seekers without problems.And qunari always will be problem without nuclear bomb that explode in our territory i think thedas will be better... 

 

 

If mages are so hated then why does bioware give us so many examples of people who do not hate mages? Why did Templars seem more hated in DA2 for example?

 

Elves are a different race to humans and humans hold all the political power, elves are not their brothers, sisters, sons and daughters. There are many powerful nobles in Thedas with Mage relatives and there are even places like Nevarra and Tervinter that have mages with political power themselves. So no, not everyone will stand by and let it happen and there would most definitely be resistance against it from non mages. 

 

You can't just devide people into little groups, you have to look at all the factors. Doing something like this would probably cause a war and you would fail in killing all the mages especially now that they aren't tucked away in the circles. 

 

How many those supporters we had few in numbers in fact most of that mage "supporters" were not with mages but against meredith pretty much reason why templars were hated.

 

Mages are seen as outcasts as well as elves mages aren't seen by humans as humans only as mages pretty much why they are segregated as mages not elves or humans in circles.

 

 

As i said many times noble can do crap with mage at best noble can hide mage and prey so templars wouldn't find him thats all in mage case not even king can interfere pretty much anora and alistair are best examples as well loghian.Simple mages are on templars focus it is templars who judge mage not country and if any noble brake it have to face consequences as loghain would... 

 

 

By the common people, sure. By the governments, not so much. They have some good graces due to the Wardens fighting off Darkspawn, but as I said that is because so far that is all the organization has really shown an interest in. If the Wardens started targeting the people of those nations, the governments would respond violently. 

 

Templars are restricted by the Chantry and Seekers to only go after mages. They can't go after normal citizens. 

 

Your organization has no checking system, so essentially can do whatever you want. That is why people will hate your organization. They are essentially thugs doing whatever they think is appropriate and have nobody to reign them in. So they can kill someone they think is a threat literally on a whim. People don't like having the possibility of death constantly hanging over them. People also don't like people having complete power over them. Plus the governments won't like you doing that, and you need their support to exist. 

Goverments have little to say in matters of templars it is stated 1000 times nor king nor nobles can do anything outside hiding mage and praying to templars not find him. The wardens as well templars don't interfere to politics unless it is about darkspawn/mages those are accepted to deal with danger that darkspawn/mages present. 

 

Templars have free will in what they are doing with mages in fact only exception RoA that requires chantry permission and even then chantry isn't goverment only religious organization.

 

What i want create is grey wardens version that hunt on mages (grey wardens don't have control over their head) and organisation will be focused on mages like grey warden on darkspawn not on politics unless like in darkspawn case they need intervene and same are doing current templars.