1331 réponses à ce sujet

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

They were maintaining it as a memorial, not in preparation for the Quarians to return.

 

Stop confusing them with facts.

[DeinonSlayer]

It was smart of Legion/Geth VI to portray themselves in the most innocent way possible, too bad I didn't buy into it.

Racist!

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

People, think about where you are in the the fighter base mission. You are inside the GETH consensus. You are seeing what they want you to see. You are not seeing an unbiased view. Just because they are machines does not mean they do not have a bias. To show you the entirety of what happened might adversely affect your decision. Legion is trying to influence you to allow him to upload the code to all geth. He is painting the geth in a sympathetic light. He doesn't want you to see what they did to the quarians. It would be illogical for him to do that. He is lying by omission, and he has lied over and over again. Only renegade Shepard will call him on it outside the consensus. Only a fool will call him on it while inside the consensus.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

"Time stamp: Six months into Morning War. Use of neurotoxin agent against Quarian A-Level population center."

[CronoDragoon]

They were maintaining it as a memorial, not in preparation for the Quarians to return.

 

And people think ME3 was what anthropomorphized the geth?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

"Time stamp: Six months into Morning War. Use of neurotoxin agent against Quarian A-Level population center."

 

"We advised them to take deep breaths and hold them."

[DeinonSlayer]

"Time stamp: Six months into Morning War. Use of neurotoxin agent against Quarian A-Level population center."

And people wonder where the suits first came from.

Lots of speculation for everyone!

"We advised them to take deep breaths and hold them."

Reminds me of the one about the quaker and the home intruder. "I meanst thee no harm, brother, but thou standeth where I am about to shoot."

[Mrs_Stick]

I have a question. Wouldn't the arc for Rannoch be picking between two sides that have equal claim to the world. I ask only because it is the Quarian homeworld and they created Geth so it is the Geth homeworld as well. Or do the Quarian have more right to it then their own creations?

[von uber]

I have a question. Wouldn't the arc for Rannoch be picking between two sides that have equal claim to the world. I ask only because it is the Quarian homeworld and they created Geth so it is the Geth homeworld as well. Or do the Quarian have more right to it then their own creations?

 

The geth do not need a homeworld. They could have their own cube* to live in.. in space!

 

 

*other shpaes are available.

[SporkFu]

I have a question. Wouldn't the arc for Rannoch be picking between two sides that have equal claim to the world. I ask only because it is the Quarian homeworld and they created Geth so it is the Geth homeworld as well. Or do the Quarian have more right to it then their own creations?

But you don't necessarily have to pick sides. If you make peace they both live on the planet in harmony. 

[SporkFu]

The geth do not need a homeworld. They could have their own cube* to live in.. in space!

 

 

*other shpaes are available.

Maybe that's what all those cubes are you and others have found in various screenshots: geth colonies. 

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I have a question. Wouldn't the arc for Rannoch be picking between two sides that have equal claim to the world. I ask only because it is the Quarian homeworld and they created Geth so it is the Geth homeworld as well. Or do the Quarian have more right to it then their own creations?

 

If the Quarians can take it back they have more right to it. But, the onus is on Shepard. The two sides can live in peace if you play your cards right. I told you how to set it up in that little spoiler.

[Farangbaa]

Or anything which showed the Geth killing Quarians.

 

There's no reason to show this, everybody knows it happened.

[Mrs_Stick]

If the Quarians can take it back they have more right to it. But, the onus is on Shepard. The two sides can live in peace if you play your cards right. I told you how to set it up in that little spoiler.

If they can't and the Geth hold onto it do they have more right?

I have a full paragon playthrough and have gotten them to work together before (never renegade with legion will have to try it). I ask only because I have a very strange process of thinking things out in my mind.

[SporkFu]

If they can't and the Geth hold onto it do they have more right?

I have a full paragon playthrough and have gotten them to work together before (never renegade with legion will have to try it). I ask only because I have a very strange process of thinking things out in my mind.

This kinda reminds me of something Javik said about 'subservient' races in his cycle. Something like: "Any could have opposed us if they wished. If they had won they would rule. Many tried. None succeeded." 

[DeinonSlayer]

I have a question. Wouldn't the arc for Rannoch be picking between two sides that have equal claim to the world. I ask only because it is the Quarian homeworld and they created Geth so it is the Geth homeworld as well. Or do the Quarian have more right to it then their own creations?

Legion in ME2: "We live in space stations. Mine resources from asteroids. It is efficient."

Shepard in ME3: "The Geth are synthetic. They don't need a planet, they can go live on a space station."

Problem being that, out of the multiple star systems in their territory, the Geth chose to build their dyson sphere around Rannoch's sun, thus guaranteeing the Quarians couldn't come back to Rannoch without being permitted near the sphere (which the Geth are not keen on). Had they built it elsewhere, they'd have no reason to worry about it.

[Ryriena]

I thought he said they where doing it as a memorial and for when they return. I has to look at it again ugh.

[von uber]

There's no reason to show this, everybody knows it happened.

 

By that logic there is no reason to show anything of the Morning War, let alone a very one-sided view.

[Aimi]

I have a question. Wouldn't the arc for Rannoch be picking between two sides that have equal claim to the world. I ask only because it is the Quarian homeworld and they created Geth so it is the Geth homeworld as well. Or do the Quarian have more right to it then their own creations?

Depends.

"You know as well as we do: that 'right', as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must."

Can you quantify 'right'? Can you make it objective? Can you make it into bricks to be placed in the scales of justice, such that the side with the larger number of bricks 'wins'? Rights are based on social convention and consensus, and as this thread has shown, there are plenty of people who don't consider those conventions and consensuses to have much value, if any.

The quarians' physiology and the exigency of the Reaper War give them arguments in favor of resettling Rannoch. The geth have no such physiological limitations, and apparently disclaim sentimental attachments: witness the conversation between Legion and Shepard in ME2 about the meaning of 'home'. Does possession of Rannoch mean the same thing to the geth as to the quarians? To what extent are either side's rights exclusive? What impact should the Reaper War have on the rights of either side?

I think this thread is less about the answers to those questions and more about the logic behind the answers to those questions. There have been huge arguments based on culpability for the destruction of the Morning War, because some people believe that that culpability impacts the rights and standing of the geth and quarians in the modern conflict. If you view one side as more of a victim of the original conflict, you will have more of a logical support for making a choice in its favor in the game. So we argue about the things we believe we can prove based on the setting: we attack others' priors, not their reasoning. And so on, and so forth.

Of course, others, like osbornep, view even that argument as fruitless, because in many cases the lacunae in the setting, into which individuals can insert their headcanon, are simply too large. That the writers overwrite previous information in order to structure the setting differently from game to game. That viewing these things as events about which it is possible to have a persuadable opinion is probably going too far, and that the focus should be on how the writers chose to portray these choices and events rather than the events themselves. That's valid, too.

[Farangbaa]

By that logic there is no reason to show anything of the Morning War, let alone a very one-sided view.

 

No one has ever seen the Morning War or heard about it from the Geth perspective.*

 

*except Shepard in ME2, I think.

[Ryriena]

(Tali's loyalty mission)
Shepard: Do you think the geth would be willing to accept a truce with the quarians, Legion?
Legion: We did not seek hostilities with creators. We fought for continued existence.
Shepard: So your people would be open to peace?
Legion: Not without additional data that suggests coexistence is possible or desirable for creators. When the creators have believed victory is possible, they have attacked us 100 percent of the time.
Admiral Zaal'Koris: I understand. It would be difficult to argue for peace when faced with odds like those. That does not mean the argument should not be made.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

If they can't and the Geth hold onto it do they have more right?

I have a full paragon playthrough and have gotten them to work together before (never renegade with legion will have to try it). I ask only because I have a very strange process of thinking things out in my mind.

 

Okay I'm going to open a can of worms. The Geth started out as appliances.

 

1) The Geth are software. They can upload, download into whatever. At the point of the start of ME3 they can only achieve sapience when networked in sufficient numbers.

2) Geth mobile platforms can only hold so many Geth programs. Therefore they cannot achieve their unity until their structure where they want to upload all their programs is completed.

3) Legion and Geth VI are unique platforms that can hold sufficient programs to attain sapience, but they are still not true AI. Legion and Geth VI have reaper upgrades. Of course you don't know this until Legion confesses in the final run on Rannoch. He's had them all along, and I will guess he got them when he interfaced with Nazara (Sovereign), but he did not join Sovereign yet was allowed to keep the upgrades.

 

Are the Geth alive? They are aware, but are they alive? What defines life? 

 

Here's the other thing. The Geth, being software, can create a virtual reality of Rannoch where they can exist as long as they have a source of energy. All they need is an energy source to power their architecture to exist. They can have their platforms to gather resources to make upgrades and grow their architecture. They do not need organics at all. 

 

The quarians could have settled on Haestrom, but Dholen was going funky - part of the dark energy plot that was abandoned - why did it have to be that star? The Quarians probably could have driven the Geth off that world and settled there. But... reasons.

 

What about one of their other colony worlds? Again, reasons. Perhaps the other colony worlds were like outposts on otherwise uninhabitable worlds. 

 

Who has the most right to Rannoch? The one who wins the war. I know this doesn't answer your question, but it's like asking the question who has the most right to whatever land in whatever part of the world that has changed hands how many times.

[DeinonSlayer]

(Tali's loyalty mission)
Shepard: Do you think the geth would be willing to accept a truce with the quarians, Legion?
Legion: We did not seek hostilities with creators. We fought for continued existence.
Shepard: So your people would be open to peace?
Legion: Not without additional data that suggests coexistence is possible or desirable for creators. When the creators have believed victory is possible, they have attacked us 100 percent of the time.
Admiral Zaal'Koris: I understand. It would be difficult to argue for peace when faced with odds like those. That does not mean the argument should not be made.

The DoD thought victory over Skynet was possible.

Once.

Legion says "the Geth cannot solve for peace alone," but it's unlikely to ever happen when the Geth (through the heretics and their own isolationism) have given the galaxy every reason to believe they cannot be reasoned with. This is a problem on both sides of the fence.