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[I Tsunayoshi I]

There are only a few of them. Terramorphus, and the one at the end of the Pirates DLC, and stuff like that. Otherwise you can solo the basic game, even on true vault dweller level. At least Terramorphus you can leave the boss fight. Pirates you're trapped.

 

Terra doesnt encourage the Siren suicide method of soloing. You can do that easily with a Sand Hawk and Bee with a Dahl artifact. Assassin does it best in that method though.

 

Hyperious though. Sirens with Norfleets and Immolate will decimate him without even trying. Literally kicking his ass through suicide.

[SporkFu]

* Siren-y awesomeness * 

Now I really want to play BL2 again. Argh, okay...soon. 

[Iakus]

By turning them into a Reaper they would then forever be a Reaper serving the Reaper cause. That leaves no opening to building their own future. It ends with becomming a Reaper. Their future would have been given to them.(Reaperised)

Or do you think they were promised to fly off on their own ignoring the other Reapers, the cycle, the catalyst and everything else? I seriously doubt that was part of the deal.

Therefor it follows that the "Geth build their own future, and the deal wouldn't allow for that." The Reaper offer was a dead end. Possibly slightly better than absolute death.

 

Except that is not how Legion explained it:

 

Shepard: Some of the geth followed Sovereign.  The "heretics."
Legion: The heretics accepted their technology.  The Old Machines offered to give us our future. The geth will achieve our own future.
Shepard: What difference does it make how you acquire a certain technology?
Legion: Technology is not a straight line.  There are many paths to the same end.  Accepting another's path blinds you to alternatives.  Nazara — Sovereign — said this itself.  "Your civilization is based upon the technology of the mass relays.  Our technology.  By using it, your society develops along the paths we desire."

 

It's almost as if when Chris L'Etoile left Bioware, they burned all his notes on the characters he wrote for, leaving the other writers to start from scratch.

[Obadiah]

@Iakus
In that same game, Legion also was willing to use a virus it had not developed to further its own interests.

I think you are taking Legion's statement as some sort of law the Geth follow, which is not the case.

[Iakus]

@Iakus
In that same game, Legion also was willing to use a virus it had not developed to further its own interests.

I think you are taking Legion's statement as some sort of law the Geth follow, which is not the case.

 

Except, that is what the geth (excluding the Heretics) follow.

 

And Legion proved indecicive in using that virus, if you'll recall.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

If you mean my problem is I want Legion to act consistently, then yes.

 

He did act consistently. By changing his mind on this topic, his actions were consistent with his new beliefs.

 

Lots of NPCs of note similarly change their lines of thinking over the course of the story.

 

It only seems to be a problem when people liked their previous opinions, and don't like their new ones.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

Except, that is what the geth (excluding the Heretics) follow.

 

And Legion proved indecicive in using that virus, if you'll recall.

 

Indecisive in the purpose of the virus, as Legion's subroutines are debating over rewriting and destroying for the entire mission. Legion fully intended to use the virus regardless.

[Iakus]

He did act consistently. By changing his mind on this topic, his actions were consistent with his new beliefs.

 

Lots of NPCs of note similarly change their lines of thinking over the course of the story.

 

It only seems to be a problem when people liked their previous opinions, and don't like their new ones.

 

And these new beliefs were completely inconsistent with his old beliefs, with no explanation for why the sudden, dramatic shift.

[Iakus]

Indecisive in the purpose of the virus, as Legion's subroutines are debating over rewriting and destroying for the entire mission. Legion fully intended to use the virus regardless.

 

the intention was originally to destroy the virus.  It was once they hit the station that they learned it could be repurposed to use on the Heretics

[Obadiah]

But it would use the virus, right? Indicating a willingness to use the technology of others, right?

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Legion using Reaper code to change the geth is a complete 180 on this.  What he did wasn't evolution, it was a shortcut.  More so, it was done by Legion alone, without the consent of the consensus.  In a sense, what Legion did was almost a dry-run of Synthesis.  "Upgrading" an entire people without their knowledge or consent into something fundamentally different from their origin "for their own good"

 

Yes, humans grow and change over the course of their lives.  But we are talking about changes far deeper than lifestyle changes or nutrition.  We are talking about altered thought patterns.  Not jsut the wisdom of experience but in mental wiring.  Changes in the DNA.  Not just changes in who we are, but what we are.  Both philosophical and scientific sense.

 

Better question: is being human good or bad?

 

It's in our psychology to value things that are ours more highly. Do we assume to equate humanity to goodness?

 

I'd say being human is good, in some ways, not good in others. As it relates to the geth, I'd say that autonomy is a positive thing that comes with being human, which is what Legion's geth achieve with the code upgrade. Sure, the geth may have been more "interesting" as a hive-mind entity, but that was also a weakness which was exploited by their enemies. It would also be rather silly of them to hold on to that weakness for sentimental value. Doubly so when their collective lives are on the line.

[Iakus]

But it would use the virus, right? Indicating a willingness to use the technology of others, right?

 

You're implying the geth didn't already have this technology?

[teh DRUMPf!!]

And these new beliefs were completely inconsistent with his old beliefs, with no explanation for why the sudden, dramatic shift.

 

Well that's kind of the point of changing your mind.

 

But YES, a clear explanation would have been nice. Something more meaningful than "Ooh, it's so pretty..."

 

... I guess the sentimentality thing goes both ways.

[Iakus]

Better question: is being human good or bad?

 

It's in our psychology to value things that are ours more highly. Do we assume to equate humanity to goodness?

 

I'd say being human is good, in some ways, not good in others. As it relates to the geth, I'd say that autonomy is a positive thing that comes with being human, which is what Legion's geth achieve with the code upgrade. Sure, the geth may have been more "interesting" as a hive-mind entity, but that was also a weakness which was exploited by their enemies. It would also be rather silly of them to hold on to that weakness for sentimental value. Doubly so when their collective lives are on the line.

 

And the consenus is a strength as well.  They could form a gestalt mind of incalculable vastness.

 

By making autonomy, becoming more like humans,  inherently good for the geth, Bioware fell victim to the benign anthropomorphism Legion warned about in the second game.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

And the consenus is a strength as well.  They could form a gestalt mind of incalculable vastness.

 

Perhaps they still can. How hard would it be to join their upgraded runtimes together?

[Iakus]

Perhaps they still can. How hard would it be to join their upgraded runtimes together?

 

Given the are now all individuals and not a consensus anymore, that's probably not possible.

 

Not without a Reaper smoothie machine, anyway

[Obadiah]

You're implying the geth didn't already have this technology?

Its Heretic developed, stored in a Reaper container. The point is that it is technology not developed by the Geth.

[Obadiah]

Given the are now all individuals and not a consensus anymore, that's probably not possible.

Not without a Reaper smoothie machine, anyway

With the Reaper upgrades they have the ability to form a consciousness with far fewer programs. Why does that mean they are no longer a consensus?

[Iakus]

With the Reaper upgrades they have the ability to form a consciousness with far fewer programs. Why does that mean they are no longer a consensus?

 

Pure headcanon

[Iakus]

Its Heretic developed, stored in a Reaper container. The point is that it is technology not developed by the Geth.

 

You have a point about the Reaper container.  But the Heretics are still geth.

[DeinonSlayer]

the intention was originally to destroy the virus.  It was once they hit the station that they learned it could be repurposed to use on the Heretics

"Another solution to the Heretic question"

Real subtle, Bioware.

[Obadiah]

Pure headcanon

I don't think so. Legion had the upgrades and is still part of the consensus. That's why when it frees the Geth from the server it says, "They are now us."

[KaiserShep]

But it would use the virus, right? Indicating a willingness to use the technology of others, right?

 

In fairness, its willingness to use it depends on Shepard's, simply because coexistence is not possible in their present state.

[Ecael]

The writer of the following is AssaultSloth, a PhD med student who wrote the best depiction of Project Lazarus I've yet encountered.

 

I do not mean to try and derail the thread (although you did mention it) -- but when you say "Ph.D. med student", do you mean just Ph.D., or M.D.-Ph.D.?

 

If AssaultSloth is a biologist in graduate school, then he is a graduate student (M.S. or Ph.D). He would still be referred to as a doctor if he pursued a Ph.D. (like Dr. Mordin Solus), even though he is not a medical student. If he is a biology major who now attends medical school, then he would be referred to as a medical student -- either M.D. or D.O. (like Dr. Karin Chakwas or Dr. Chloe Michel). If he applied to a M.D.-Ph.D. program and was accepted, then he would be considered both a medical and graduate student (even if the GRE was waived), until the completion of both degrees.

 

If he completed graduate school, received his doctorate, and then attended medical school, he would be a "Ph.D. medical student". I am not familiar with many classmates who went this route, mainly because of the incredible debt that would pile up by the start of residency.

 

It's just semantics, I know...

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

With the Reaper upgrades they have the ability to form a consciousness with far fewer programs. Why does that mean they are no longer a consensus?

 

Because they are now individuals. They are "true AI." They do not need consensus. They can get a job, work 9-5, get a credit card, go into debt, feel good about getting a mortgage. They can build homes, raise little gethlings, mow their lawns weekly. They don't need that big structure out in space anymore. They don't even need to seek true unity. They date each other, get married. Fight, get divorced. It's so great to be alive! It's so great to feel human! Then they can even feel like killing one another. They're good at killing already. They'll have to come up with laws about that now, too.