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Writing failures in the Rannoch arc (by AssaultSloth)


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#601
shodiswe

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Except that is not how Legion explained it:
 
Shepard: Some of the geth followed Sovereign.  The "heretics."
Legion: The heretics accepted their technology.  The Old Machines offered to give us our future. The geth will achieve our own future.
Shepard: What difference does it make how you acquire a certain technology?
Legion: Technology is not a straight line.  There are many paths to the same end.  Accepting another's path blinds you to alternatives.  Nazara — Sovereign — said this itself.  "Your civilization is based upon the technology of the mass relays.  Our technology.  By using it, your society develops along the paths we desire."
 
It's almost as if when Chris L'Etoile left Bioware, they burned all his notes on the characters he wrote for, leaving the other writers to start from scratch.


Sovereign and Harbinger made the same offer to humans, I don't think anyone took that offer seriously. Technology in exchange for becomming Reapers seems like a terrible deal. It's not like they will allow you to make any worthwhile choices after that. There is no way they would have allowed the Geth to continue their existance other than becoming Reapers or mindless drones like the Collectors. That's the future they offered and the True Geth rejected the offer.
It's not really an offer it's more like, surrender and we will imprison you in Reaper form, resist and we will kill any who arn't captured alive.

The key is in what was offered. Also, the code Legion uploads is merely fragments of the original Reaper code modified and salvaged by Legion.
It's no more shocking than any of the other Reaper tech used by galactic society every day in every day life.
Legion found a few interesting discoveries and made it his own. It was on Legion's terms, not the Reapers.

The Geth arn't against change or evolution, but they are against others forcing it upon them against their will, especialy when it's bad for them and it's taking away all future choices.

#602
KaiserShep

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Sovereign and Harbinger never made any offer to people, unless they thought lasers were some kind of luminous embrace.



#603
shodiswe

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Sovereign and Harbinger never made any offer to people, unless they thought lasers were some kind of luminous embrace.


Well, they told people to stop resisting and stop running from the harvest. Not that anyone would take it seriously.

In ME3 they also control government officials that try to calm the masses and prepare for "ascention", or sludgification as we call it.

It's an offer, even if non-indoctrinated people obviously can't take it seriously.
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#604
I Tsunayoshi I

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With the Reaper upgrades they have the ability to form a consciousness with far fewer programs. Why does that mean they are no longer a consensus?

 

Wrong. Geth became individuals once Legion uploaded the Reaper upgrades.

 

I don't think so. Legion had the upgrades and is still part of the consensus. That's why when it frees the Geth from the server it says, "They are now us."

 

Wrong again. When Legion refers to us, he means free Geth or True Geth.



#605
Obadiah

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Right, they're all in a consensus - the Legion runtimes and the freed Geth. See? The upgrades don't prevent the consensus.

#606
I Tsunayoshi I

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Right, they're all in a consensus - the Legion runtimes and the freed Geth. See? The upgrades don't prevent the consensus.

 

Not at that point. Its after Legion's upload that the consensus is impossible.



#607
Obadiah

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It is the point. Legion is a walking example of 1000+ upgraded Geth runtimes in a consensus. It can exist in a consensus with thousands (millions?) of other freed Geth. Face it, nowhere does any Geth say the consensus is gone. That is pure head-cannon.

#608
Iakus

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Sovereign and Harbinger made the same offer to humans, I don't think anyone took that offer seriously. Technology in exchange for becomming Reapers seems like a terrible deal. It's not like they will allow you to make any worthwhile choices after that. There is no way they would have allowed the Geth to continue their existance other than becoming Reapers or mindless drones like the Collectors. That's the future they offered and the True Geth rejected the offer.
It's not really an offer it's more like, surrender and we will imprison you in Reaper form, resist and we will kill any who arn't captured alive.

The key is in what was offered. Also, the code Legion uploads is merely fragments of the original Reaper code modified and salvaged by Legion.
It's no more shocking than any of the other Reaper tech used by galactic society every day in every day life.
Legion found a few interesting discoveries and made it his own. It was on Legion's terms, not the Reapers.

The Geth arn't against change or evolution, but they are against others forcing it upon them against their will, especialy when it's bad for them and it's taking away all future choices.

I must have missed that "offer" in all the explosion as Earth was invaded.



#609
Iakus

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It is the point. Legion is a walking example of 1000+ upgraded Geth runtimes in a consensus. It can exist in a consensus with thousands (millions?) of other freed Geth. Face it, nowhere does any Geth say the consensus is gone. That is pure head-cannon.

 

They are individuals or they are not.



#610
CronoDragoon

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Wrong. Geth became individuals once Legion uploaded the Reaper upgrades.

 

A geth individual is going to be different than an organic individual, though. For example, geth can still transfer their runtimes from their mobile platform, as noted by Tali talking about the geth downloading into their suits.

 

 

They are individuals or they are not.

 

That's a dichotomy that suggests everything be categorized according to "like organic individuality" or "other".



#611
DeinonSlayer

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They are individuals or they are not.

It's, like, Schrodinger's cat or something! It's deep, man!

#612
Iakus

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That's a dichotomy that suggests everything be categorized according to "like organic individuality" or "other".

 

Oh?  Do they ever speak of consensus or gestalt intellect again once they become individuals?



#613
I Tsunayoshi I

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Oh?  Do they ever speak of consensus or gestalt intellect again once they become individuals?

 

Cant really say as we have no real Geth interaction beyond the Rannoch arc.



#614
Obadiah

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Oh? Do they ever speak of consensus or gestalt intellect again once they become individuals?

They didn't before unless prompted, they just said "we" - they still say that after the upgrade. Only Legion said I, and it was on its way to doing that in ME2.

#615
Iakus

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They didn't before unless prompted, they just said "we" - they still say that after the upgrade. Only Legion said I, and it was on its way to doing that in ME2.

 

Actually the Geth Prime Shepard talks to right after Legion's sacrifice refers to itself as "I"  Shepard momentarily mistakes it for Legion.



#616
DeinonSlayer

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Actually the Geth Prime Shepard talks to right after Legion's sacrifice refers to itself as "I" Shepard momentarily mistakes it for Legion.

Shepard mistakes every Geth for Legion. Insists on calling the VI Legion despite it refuting him every single time. Guy's kinda stupid like that.

#617
justafan

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Shepard mistakes every Geth for Legion. Insists on calling the VI Legion despite it refuting him every single time.

You humans are all racist!



#618
I Tsunayoshi I

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You humans are all racist!

 

If there was someone I wanted to punch more than anything in my last ME run was that Turian. Its being racist to stop someone from taking a 15cm knife on a shuttle? ****** please.



#619
Obadiah

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Actually the Geth Prime Shepard talks to right after Legion's sacrifice refers to itself as "I" Shepard momentarily mistakes it for Legion.

No it doesn't. Go look it up. If you have a vid where the Prime says "I" please reference.

#620
Guest_Trust_*

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No it doesn't. Go look it up. If you have a vid where the Prime says "I" please reference.

http://www.youtube.c...U5kwQoKAM#t=644



#621
AlanC9

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Four minutes. That's close to a record for this board.



#622
Obadiah

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http://www.youtube.c...U5kwQoKAM#t=644

Oh this is perfect. The platform says "we" and "us" over and over again, but one utterance of "I am sorry" is proof enough that there is no longer a collective or consensus? Bravo!

#623
Iakus

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Oh this perfect. The platform says "we" and "us" over and over again, but one utterance of "I am sorry" is proof enough that there is no longer a collective or consensus. Bravo!

Because it's not.  They're individuals now.  Not a consensus



#624
Obadiah

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The consensus exists, your proof of otherwise is quite obviously not.

#625
justafan

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The way I see it, the consensus still exists, but they are no longer "Geth", they are now Unit A113, and Unit 42, etc.  Their hive mind is no longer a sentient entity, instead becoming a forum for thoughts that are no longer universally adopted.