1331 réponses à ce sujet

[DeinonSlayer]

The way I see it, the consensus still exists, but they are no longer "Geth", they are now Unit A113, and Unit 42, etc. Their hive mind is no longer a sentient entity, instead becoming a forum for thoughts that are no longer universally adopted.

If we could compare the pre- and post-Pinocchio code Geth to anything, I'd say the pre-code Geth are like neurons coming together to form a single brain, and post-upgrade geth are a hundred people in one room fighting over the remote.

[AlanC9]

Oh this perfect. The platform says "we" and "us" over and over again, but one utterance of "I am sorry" is proof enough that there is no longer a collective or consensus. Bravo!

If you really thought that saying "I" didn't matter, why were you recently insisting that saying "I" never happened?

[Obadiah]

Because I thought it never happened. Now that I see where it did (and why I missed it), I'm even more convinced of its irrelevance as "proof" to the assertion that there is no consensus.

[Mrs_Stick]

If we could compare the pre- and post-Pinocchio code Geth to anything, I'd say the pre-code Geth are like neurons coming together to form a single brain, and post-upgrade geth are a hundred people in one room fighting over the remote.

Do they grow noses when they lie as post-upgrade geth? that might be interesting

[DeinonSlayer]

Do they grow noses when they lie as post-upgrade geth? that might be interesting

Geth have very peculiar fencing matches.

[jtav]

Oddly enough, Tali in ME1 says each geth maintains individual awareness and identity.

[Mrs_Stick]

Oddly enough, Tali in ME1 says each geth maintains individual awareness and identity.

ssshhhh your gonna wake the dragon!!! so to speak.

[Ieldra]

I just came across this thread. I must say I mostly agree with the statements quoted in the OP.

 

4. I can overlook most of the criticized elements but they do indeed make little sense. The most nonsensical element is Legion's assertion that the Reapers can't control them. How could I ever believe that with no further evidence? "We are too complex"? LOL...

 

3. This is noticeable, though not such a big problem. I think the writers thought players had a stronger pro-organic bias to overcome. Thus the apparent one-sidedness. What bothers me more is the quarians' stupidity. As I've commented before, the level of stupidity expressed by people in power in the ME trilogy is beyond all credibility.

 

2. Well, yeah. I think this can be rationalized, but the conflict within the geth was indeed an interesting aspect. To see it ignored is unsatisfying.

 

1. I wholeheartedly agree. The geth, up to and including ME2, were one of the most interesting species because they were truly alien one significant aspect. That this is gone in ME3 is simply inexcusable.

[thehomeworld]

Wow just reading the 1st paragraph gives alot to think on. I was disaponted in how the entire Rannoch missions were handled they were obviously rushed and Tali x Mshep's relathionship was also suppose to be bound up in this conflict in so many ways.

 

It's been some time since I've played I'll admit but I would wager loading the organics into a fighter was for their benifit also when Legion "dies" so do the rest of his units helping him, he explained it as a reasignment or something back in 2 the weird thing is why not just keep all those loged under the Legion code name on staff or get them back together in however many months it would take to rebuild a unit like Legion 1 because surely they have schematics on how they build him/it right?

 

To me Legion being captured should've then resulted in him being rewritten by the reapers going on what he belived to be a personal crusade like we saw to give his people individulisim but what he actually does is ironically rewrite the geth to the reaper side then all said geth try to wipe the floor again with the Quarians destroying lots of their ships forcing all of you to flee in away this would've been the twists on saving Legion at the end of 2 and the heretics. Its just stupid yet again BW puts in weaknesses for characters then doesn't have the enemy exploit them even when said characters know of these weaknesses. Instead we get him being captured for who knows how long and then he's fine? Just doesn't sit right with prior lore on the reapers. Its also odd he's singled out from his species to use as this source.

 

Who knows about the human sized pod thing maybe he planed this from the start? But I would've gone dark and had the heretics hack shep while he was in there and make him an enemy you'd had to fight and eventally hack back via Tali, Garrus, and EDI all working on him while you fight him maybe even make him lead the charge on the citidel with reaper forces instead of Cerberus. The geth world felt like it was suppose to have thing happen in it why give us the warning and give us so little reaction from our enemy surely they knew we were in there. I just hated how BW wasted more potental here. Not to mention shep doesn't care much for the fact his brain could be rehacked after the truma of overlord I think he should really be freaked out and Tali's no better letting her boyfriend and/or commander get jacked into a cybernetic world that could compromise him again like overlord did.

 

I agree with him on the propoganda Legion fed us was utter crap we should all just forget in ME how they wanted us dead all the time, take legion's word in ME2 he's the good side of the force and yet the reapers don't reuse him and his remaining gang after they captured him and recived their codes? I agree with him that how they retconned them was terrible they did have a way and a plan that didn't even involve them camping on Rannoch they were litterly making plans to get off of it on their own w/o a war then a contrived war starts over the very thing they were making motions to get away from why not just let them have it? The entire war was contrived and unessisary since day one when the Quarians fled the geth never needed the planet once they went space bound for anything garden maintence was a very stupid reason to hold on to a world just leave them some memos on what they did wrong, how you're leaving for a new galaxy and if they show up wanting to enslave them tell them you'll finish the job of erasing them from the galaxy I think they would've gotten the point.

[shodiswe]

Legion might not have been rewritten by the Reapers because he/it (sounds like a he when he talks though) because he never accepted the Reaper code.

Also after the upload of the code the Geth fleets around Rannoch are reinforced by yet one more Geth fleet that enter the system. That fleet might have been other Geth that supported Legions side and had rejected the reaper offer.
That fleet never shows up if you shoot legion. It's in the codex. If you upgrade the Geth and don't make the Quarians stop then the Geth recives reinforcements from an additional Geth fleet.

If you shoot Legion then it's possible that fleet goes somewhere else to start over, never forgetting what happend.

It's entierly possible that the Geth split again, one branch following Legion and saying no, the other, which likely was the larger part accepted the Reaper offer after getting slaughterd by the Quarians for weeks and loosing billions of people.

Legions proof of concept was that he had been shackled and still resisted the Reapers control, he could go on missions and still resist Reaper control. He had parts of the code that was salvaged, and the Reapers didn't control him.

Granted, Legion is kind of a Geth Superhero, one of those Geth that does what would seem impossible to the others, which makes you wonder if the others will get as strong as Legion was. But in the ned we see that the Geth helps us fight the Reapers, and there were no Reports on a Legion Geth turning.

In the future the Geth might change name from Geth to "The Legion" because being called "Servants of the people" won't fly in the long term. It would also fit the idea that that Geth Prime says they would honor Legion for it's sacrifise.

[Obadiah]

Legion is the Geth AI version of Shepard - a key figure among its people, seemingly immune to Reaper control, a bit of a rogue (doesn't side with the Reapers when the Consensus does) that represents and leads its people. Legion is not trying to give the Geth "individuality", however its platform was growing an individual personality in ME2, although it hadn't been fully actualized. I think this was fairly obvious when speaking to Legion in ME2. The Reaper upgrades it received when interfacing with the Geth Dreadnaught probably sped up the process a bit.

[EDIT]
It seemed to me that the Geth runtimes in ME2 were developing factions that formed different views and personalities anyway. That's why there was a split between the True Geth and the Heretics, that's why when the Legion runtimes were separated into one hardware platform for its extended mission outside Geth space it developed individual traits.

Legion as 1000+ programs in ME2 formed a local networked gestalt intelligence. Legion with Reaper upgraded programs in ME3 continued to do the same, and at the end of Rannoch that intelligence referred to itself as "I", an individual personality. Even with its individual traits or personality in ME2, and the Reaper upgrades in ME3, Legion was able to return to the Geth consensus in ME2, and it wanted "reunification" in ME3, so I don't think the individual personalities that platforms can develop, and the networked intelligence that the Geth have are mutually exclusive.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

Legion is not an individual, he just takes the name because Shepard insists on him having a name. He is Geth, 1183 runtimes stored in a mobile platform. He doesn't want individuality; the Geth do not want individuality; the Heretics don't; the True Geth don't. At least in ME2. 

And that's why I liked him so much in ME2, one of the game's few brightspots, as the Geth weren't some cliched "AI wants to be human" group. 

Then ME3 attacked. 

[shodiswe]

The thing that was said wasn't that the geth a single get platform wasn't capable of being sentient or intelligent. The problem was that the platform lacked the processingpower to enable this on it's own.
The Geth managed this by using cloudservers and processors.

The upgrade reduced the processor load and the need for massive amounts of dataprocessing.
The upgrade likely standardised and simplified the calculations.
Similar to a gfxdriverupdate.
If that bothers you a lot then I don't know what to say. They nolonger need their wheelchair.

[Iakus]

The thing that was said wasn't that the geth a single get platform wasn't capable of being sentient or intelligent. The problem was that the platform lacked the processingpower to enable this on it's own.
The Geth managed this by using cloudservers and processors.

The upgrade reduced the processor load and the need for massive amounts of dataprocessing.
The upgrade likely standardised and simplified the calculations.
Similar to a gfxdriverupdate.
If that bothers you a lot then I don't know what to say. They nolonger need their wheelchair.

 

No, that's not what bothers a lot of people.

 

They were intelligent before the upgrade.  But they were "a shattered mind" struggling to come together.  They wanted to become a single entity of massive intellect and perspective.  They wanted to come together in a way no organic species could.  

 

Then ME3 struck and they all wanted to be just like organics.

[Ryriena]

No, that's not what bothers a lot of people.

They were intelligent before the upgrade. But they were "a shattered mind" struggling to come together. They wanted to become a single entity of massive intellect and perspective. They wanted to come together in a way no organic species could.

Then ME3 struck and they all wanted to be just like organics.

Pretty much this, is why I liked Legion as a whole. He himself never felt the need to be like the organics. It made them more believable and I liked him as he's also a fellow gamer . This whole wanting to be rewritten crap was jarring and very OOC for the Geth and Legion. So why didn't the reapers hack them after that code was put in place like they did with the race in Javki's time frame? Thats my other nick pick of the Rannorch arc as well it just felt out of place.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Sovereign and Harbinger never made any offer to people, unless they thought lasers were some kind of luminous embrace.

 

Harbinger made the offer to Shepard - "Surrender and you will be spared." 

[shodiswe]

I must have missed that "offer" in all the explosion as Earth was invaded.

Oh, well, you see, it was the same offer! Don't fight, don't run, just surrender and prepare to get processed into a sludge and uploaded into a Reaper dreadnaught.

You don't take that offer seriously?! Well neither did the true Geth. Because it took away their ability to decide their own future and experience new things.

We don't know if the upgrades is a permanent end to the dreams of the sphere, but it's likely their interests and priorities have changed. While they might need and desire it less, it's likely still a possibility.

Also, Legion didn't describe the sphere as the final be all end all possibilities for the Geth. They can probably rebuild even if a few of them goes elsewhere to persue other dreams.
ME3 showed that the Sphere idea was a very dangerous one however, after the Quarian attack on the sphere it's beginning to look like a deathtrap.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Also, Legion didn't describe the sphere as the final be all end all possibilities for the Geth. They can probably rebuild even if a few of them goes elsewhere to persue other dreams.
ME3 showed that the Sphere idea was a very dangerous one however, after the Quarian attack on the sphere it's beginning to look like a deathtrap.

 

Shepard can also respond to Legion's description of the Dyson Sphere by saying "Sounds like a Reaper to me."

 

Legion denies this charge, but if the geth hoped to keep it (their collective) safe, it would really have to be.

[Kel Riever]

I don't need a story!

 

I have soaring music!

[Iakus]

Shepard can also respond to Legion's description of the Dyson Sphere by saying "Sounds like a Reaper to me."

 

Shepard can also express suprise that asari can mate with other asari.

[Vortex13]

 

1. I wholeheartedly agree. The geth, up to and including ME2, were one of the most interesting species because they were truly alien one significant aspect. That this is gone in ME3 is simply inexcusable.

 

Unfortunately that's to be expected among mainstream sci-fi settings. I hoped that ME would break that tradition, but like most other settings (Star Trek, Star Wars, etc.) There is a clear human or near-human analogue bias.

 

I mean look at:

 

• The pre-Reaper code/ME 2 Geth

 

• The Elcor

 

• The Hanar

 

• The Rachni

 

All interesting and 'alien' aliens, but by the end of ME 3 they are either:

 

• 'Humanized' - The Geth losing their collective intelligence; the whole Pinocchio troupe

 

• Made into a running gag - The Hanar devolving into Blasto; the Elcor being equated to lumbering idiots (not to mention that the biggest Elcor character in ME 3 says "Badassfully" before each statement)

 

• Or outright ignored, or almost entirely skipped over - The Rachni are under Reaper control! Here do this one mission, and then never see them again outside of a few off screen remarks and that one ending slide.

[Mrs_Stick]

In the Elcor's defense he is acting in a movie. He can't act badassfully so he has to say it.

[Vortex13]

In the Elcor's defense he is acting in a movie. He can't act badassfully so he has to say it.

 

 

I understand why he states that, but the fact that a joke character has a bigger role then the Elcor diplomat trying to get one of the council races to help evacuate the Elcor home world doesn't speak well of how the narrative views the Elcor in particular and 'alien' aliens in general.

[Mrs_Stick]

I understand why he states that, but the fact that a joke character has a bigger role then the Elcor diplomat trying to get one of the council races to help evacuate the Elcor home world doesn't speak well of how the narrative views the Elcor in particular and 'alien' aliens in general.

Hanar and Elcor are not viewed well by most species in the galaxy. You have the c-sec officer in ME1 complaining about the stupid jelly spouting evangelical nonsense. Elcor are not viewed as very bright. However I think it leaves room for growth in the series. There is a whole other game coming and perhaps we might see Hanar, Elcor and Volus as more than jokes. Perhaps we will see and learn more about them anything is possible. We don't have much to go off of now. Most of the games centered around council races and the Quarian and Geth. Not a lot of room to get a lot of development on the seeming lesser races.

[AlanC9]

Made into a running gag - The Hanar devolving into Blasto; the Elcor being equated to lumbering idiots (not to mention that the biggest Elcor character in ME 3 says "Badassfully" before each statement)

Isn't the butt of the Blasto film gag the formulaic nature of action films and the trashiness of pop culture, rather than the alien performers?

And the elcor acting gag goes back to ME1. Except there it was supposed to be a serious artistic statement; I thought that was almost as funny as Blasto.