1331 réponses à ce sujet

[Obadiah]

Dyson Sphere, Dyson Bubble - the point is, as far as vulnerabilities go, though the bubble sounds a bit more delicate and is what is described as being destroyed in ME3, both types of structures are still weaknesses. If the megastructure wasn't around the star, then it would still have the vulnerability of being a centralized structure that the Geth would have to defend, with far greater potential losses than the pre-existing Geth networked intelligence if attacked.

The Geth built it anyway. Why? Why unify their mind if it makes them vulnerable to complete destruction in a galaxy openly hostile to them? They were building this structure before they met Shepard, before they had ANY cooperation with Organics since the Morning War. In ME3 Legion says the Geth admire the concept of "hope" that Organics have, but to me some version of this is really the only explanation to go forward with building the structure.

This megastructure was destroyed in ME3, and even with the Reaper upgrades, the Geth still stood down with the Quarian fleet before them (the very same one that had destroyed their megastructure). Again, why? Risk assessment? "Hope"? Just the ONLY option to survive the invasion given the Reaper's overwhelming force?

If the Geth survive the Rannoch War, Shepard picks the Destroy option, and then the Geth somehow manage to survive that blast, how do they judge organics then?

[shodiswe]

No matter how powerful a structure or ship seems bad thigns can happen, and if you put all your eggs in one basket then they are likely at far greater risk than if you spread them out in many baskets... Billions of baskets.

I think that was part of their increased interest in trying something new. When you are that close to total extinction you got a choice to make, change and adapt or die. The Geth choose a change that would help them live on. That's the way evolution normaly works.

[DeinonSlayer]

Everything would have been a lot easier if "people" would have talked to each other. When the Geth tried to talk to the Quarians they ignored them and just tried to kill them. The more they talked the more ruthless and stressed the Quarians got in their search for a more expedient Geth deactivation.The Quarians could have listened more and talked more.Sure, the Geth could have tried it after the Quarians had left, but I have a feeling it feelt fairly risky given the trackrecord they had with talking to the Quarians.Every other Organic species in the galaxy had brought everything they had right outside the Relay into Geth space. In that situation it might actualy be better to play dead than to risk arrousing the hornets nest and have them panick and start stampeding through Geth space.What's trickier would be their silence after the Heretic attack aiding Sovereign. Then again, even if you brought Legion before the council in ME2 the council wasn't prepared to listen to or belive Legion. They even questioned wether or not Legion was an actual Geth Representative or representative of the other Geth's views. Or a real Geth at all.The council didn't seem to care that much either. All the council wanted was for them to stay out of "Council" space. Just as they wanted Shepard to stay out of Council space as much as possible.Everyone in this fictional galaxy seems to be suffering from serious communication problems and stupidity. Though I guess that's natural if you look at our world.

Well, gee. Maybe if they hadn't exterminated every single Quarian in their territory and sat there as a silent monolith the galaxy wouldn't have viewed them as such a threat.

The Geth never "played dead." What are you on about?

Exactly what risk did the Geth face by talking after the exile? They felt safe enough trolling Salarians over the extranet. Their borders were secure for centuries. They could easily talk without letting anyone in their territory, but they chose not to. If anything, engaging in communication would have made the galaxy see them as less of a threat, not more. At the start of the morning war, people freaked out about them talking because they weren't supposed to be alive to begin with - I've yet to have a meaningful conversation with Siri. After the war, it seems clear enough they gained the sentience they were never meant to have - hence the organic attempts to open diplomatic channels.

They alone are responsible for how they are perceived. I'm not impressed by Legion's lament that "the Geth cannot solve for peace alone" when they have given the Quarians every reason to believe they cannot be reasoned with through their own isolationism and allowing the heretics to be their spokesmen to the galaxy.

I do agree that the writing of the Council if you bring Legion there is stupid, but then, all of ME2's writing regarding the Council was stupid beyond all credibility. Really, had it been an option, I'd have had Shepard take Legion back to the Migrant Fleet to try to iron this issue out between ME2 and 3; securing the assistance of the two largest fleets in the galaxy is a much better use of Shepard's time than cooling his heels in an Alliance detention facility.

[CronoDragoon]

It's a writer thing. Chris L'etoile didn't see the Dyson Sphere as a weakness. He saw it as a strength for the Geth. When he left, his entire ideas for the Geth left with him. Different writers took over and got their ideas from Super Mac. Suddenly their alien nature left and they wanted to be human. Clothes make the boy. Legion started to malfunction and wanted to be human. Maybe they should have called him Mal in ME3.

 

So what if he did? It's of course possible that he was simply wrong about that, right? Even in the sections he himself wrote we see the consensus failing. They had to change in some direction. The massive consensus was one possibility, but ME3 shows just how dangerous such a situation is (the consensus gets blown up and the geth are gone). When Legion is describing the Reaper code to Shepard, it's the massive upgrade in processing potential, and the way that the code seems "alive", that he relates to Shepard as being beautiful. Somewhere along the way the idea of runtimes being permanently networked in a mobile platform was introduced, but even then we know the geth can either let their runtimes leave their platform or duplicate their runtimes to download into other networks.

 

Geth individuality post-ME3 is not the same as organic individuality.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

By that logic, Arcturus Station is a Reaper.

Nice try, but people can scroll up one post to see what you cut out: Arcturus station does not house the gestalt mind of a species (and what does that sound like?)

I'm not trying to imply geth would periodically wipe out organics after they're finished, mind you, just that it would be virtually the same thing in principle. Then again, given the ridiculous number of people the geth killed in "self defense" and others simply for not trusting organics, I would not put it past them to become Reaper Jr.

[Iakus]

A Dyson's Sphere is a centralized base in a location locked to that of the star it surrounds. It would be a massive surface area to defend, and it is not as if it could be moved when under attack. Any damage it sustains puts the whole structure at risk of collapsing into the star. It is a weakness under either writer - unless it had one of those Death Star cannons, and then, well, there's the Reaper analogy.

 

Except they weren't building a Dyson Sphere.  IT's simply the closest analogue Shepard could understand.

 

And the wreckage we found near Rannoch was no Dyson Sphere.  Those things are huge,  Heck even a Ringworld would have been absolutely ginormous. 

 

The Quarians basically hit a central hub before their defenses were ready.

[Obadiah]

@Iakus
For crying out loud, you really don't ever scroll up do you.

[Iakus]

Nice try, but people can scroll up one post to see what you cut out: Arcturus station does not house the gestalt mind of a species (and what does that sound like?)

I'm not trying to imply geth would periodically wipe out organics after they're finished, mind you, just that it would be virtually the same thing in principle. Then again, given the ridiculous number of people the geth killed in "self defense" and others simply for not trusting organics, I would not put it past them to become Reaper Jr.

 

Any geth platform is the gestalt mind of members of a species. Big deal.  Does that make Legion a mini-Reaper?

 

 What you seem to be implying is that because geth inhabit a platform in a vaguely similar manner to the Reapers, then they are in fact Reapers.

 

Well, gee, turians are all organic, and live as individuals.  As do humans...

 

OMG I'm a turian!

[Iakus]

@Iakus
For crying out loud, you really don't ever scroll up do you.

 

I'm catching up, Gimme a breakl

 

The point remains.  the quarians attacked a major hub before the geth were ready, thanks to the new weapons developed.  The geth didn't have their defenses ready.  End of story.

 

I think it was foolish of them to put it in the Rannoch system of all places.  I'd have stuck it someplace teh quarians wouldn't have been so eager to capture, but that's all I could really fault them for.

[shodiswe]

@Deinonslayer I agree! It would have been great to take Tali and Legion back to the flotilla to work things out after ME2.

It's possibly one of the most imporant thigns that you could have done to help prepare the galaxy for the Reapers return. It's one of the few things that a "Spectre" could do that would help improve the situation and relations in the galaxy. It's also the primary function of a Spectre.

It's certainly not to sit lockedup. Even if you had failed to convince the Quarians not to go to war or if they had in the end decived you and broken their words, and tried to reneact a genocide on the Geth. At least Shepard would have tried the best to his/her ability.

Right now you can't do anything for the council, not really. Perhaps brief them on whatever Reaper/collector tactics you have experienced. But it seems like the Geth/Quarian conflict would be the primary concern after the collector base.

[DeinonSlayer]

I still question if negotiations mediated by Shepard would succeed, though. The Quarians aren't going to feel safe dumping their civilians under the watchful eyes of the same entity which exterminated them once before and has only just now stopped killing any and all organics it encountered on sight, and on the other side of that, the Geth aren't going to be comfortable allowing the Migrant Fleet anywhere near their sphere. That's no reason not to try, of course, but these are huge obstacles.

As I've said before, things would have been a lot simpler if the Geth had built their sphere anywhere else.

[Mrs_Stick]

Where would you have them put the sphere? Geth controlled space used to be controlled by Quarians. I can't see the Quarians not attacking it no matter where it is. Even if it wasn't over Rannoch they still would have gone after it imo.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

The Turians are willing to get ready for the Reapers. Maybe if the Alliance hadn't had their heads up their collective asses and imprisoned Shepard without any legal authority to do so, Garrus and Shepard could've goen to the Primarch and gotten a Turian fleet to mediate the transition at Rannoch, with the order to put down any troubles from either side. 

Just a thought. 

[DeinonSlayer]

Where would you have them put the sphere? Geth controlled space used to be controlled by Quarians. I can't see the Quarians not attacking it no matter where it is. Even if it wasn't over Rannoch they still would have gone after it imo.

I don't think they would. I explained why in an earlier post (last page, I think). Instead of one side occupying a location vital to the survival of the other, they'd be separate. Detente. The Quarians, focused on rebuilding and at last granted the opportunity to settle down, lose most of their impetus to attack the Geth. There would be those who would still want to, of course, but they'd be reigned in by a majority who wouldn't want to provoke retaliation which would in all likelihood annihilate them.

[Ryriena]

I tend to agree that going war with the Geth after you said not too was pointless. It felt like they where ignoring a bigger threat to them as a whole just so they could shoehorn the Qurians as a bunch of warmongers. They even armed their civilian fleets, which is a bad idea in this storyline. It's like when the Israelis bomb schools and news buildings during caste lead. They even bombed UN convoys during that siege. It makes them look bad in retrospect it's ends justify the means and forget about the political stuff after. We got them right! Face palms

[ImaginaryMatter]

I don't think they would. I explained why in an earlier post (last page, I think). Instead of one side occupying a location vital to the other, they'd be separate. Detente. The Quarians, focused on rebuilding and at last granted the opportunity to settle down, lose most of their impetus to attack the Geth. There would be those who would still want to, of course, but they'd be reigned in by a majority who wouldn't want to provoke retaliation which would in all likelihood annihilate them.

 

I guess the Geth ended up building in Rannoch's system because they didn't have any intention about moving.

[DeinonSlayer]

@Ryriena
Leave real-world politics out of this.

[Mrs_Stick]

But then that is the question. The Geth started building the sphere shortly after the morning war. Because peace was not brought back then and is almost impossible now 300 years later. The geth had no reason ti build it somewhere else. If they did yes I can see it staying if and only if the majority of Quarians can agree that a certain half of the veil belongs to the Geth and the Geth agree as well. Really I am staring to think the Quarian/Geth is a free for all.

[Ryriena]

@Ryriena
Leave real-world politics out of this.

Sorry lol that was best way to describe the conflict that I know of at this time.

[DeinonSlayer]

Sorry lol that was best way to describe the conflict that I know of at this time.

Still irrelevant and inflammatory. We don't need the thread to break down into who bombed whom versus who broke into whose house and murdered whom in their sleep.

[Ryriena]

But then that is the question. The Geth started building the sphere shortly after the morning war. Because peace was not brought back then and is almost impossible now 300 years later. The geth had no reason ti build it somewhere else. If they did yes I can see it staying if and only if the majority of Quarians can agree that a certain half of the veil belongs to the Geth and the Geth agree as well. Really I am staring to think the Quarian/Geth is a free for all.

I'll agree that diplomatic wise it's at the free for all stage at this point. I would suggest a overseer like the UN to go in to assist in the transition it would convey a show of support for this peace deal. Like have another set of eyes helping it along to make it go smoothly

[Ryriena]

Still irrelevant and inflammatory. We don't need the thread to break down into who bombed whom versus who broke into whose house and murdered whom in their sleep.

Ok, I won't bring them up anymore sorry for bring up facts to support my claims for a fictional conflict.

[Mrs_Stick]

I'll agree that diplomatic wise it's at the free for all stage at this point. I would suggest a overseer like the UN to go in to assist in the transition it would convey a show of support for this peace deal. Like have another set of eyes helping it along to make it go smoothly

But at what point and time could peace have been negotiated? In 300 years neither side has shown (Majority of said race) sign that they favored peace. The council tried but i'm not sure the Quarians wanted it. And by the time they fled I don't blame them for not wanting it was all still a very fresh wound.

[Ryriena]

But at what point and time could peace have been negotiated? In 300 years neither side has shown (Majority of said race) sign that they favored peace. The council tried but i'm not sure the Quarians wanted it. And by the time they fled I don't blame them for not wanting it was all still a very fresh wound.

I tend too agree after all that time. I too would not want too open fresh wounds like that for my race. I was mostly talking about after Shepard comes in too save the day with the whole convoy thing in the MEU. They send in a diplomatic convoy too assist in the transition for the people to keep the peace process going.

[Mrs_Stick]

I tend too agree after all that time. I too would not want too open fresh wounds like that for my race. I was mostly talking about after Shepard comes in too save the day with the whole convoy thing in the MEU. They send in a diplomatic convoy too assist in the transition for the people to keep the peace process going.

Now you need someone neutral to both sides that can truly keep the peace. That would be hard because Geth aahhh its an AI and then Quarians" those suit rats unleashed the Geth" No matter what you do there will be problems.