1331 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

Not if ME3 is a good place to start. 

 

But it's the best place to start!

 

We were told it was so!  

[DeinonSlayer]

@Deinon

 

That's a bit of a simplification of the arc. Tali isn't a "random character" still alive, she's the symbol for quarian acceptance of the geth. Legion's characterization dealt more with organics as a whole, but that's entirely appropriate when the geth's hangup is understanding organic thought process in general, not just the quarians in specific.

 

Or, to put it another way, let's say you never activate Legion in ME2. No interaction with Tali or Shepard. Who in their right mind is expecting peace in ME3 in the first place?

 

But I do like the alternate ideas for missions he plots out.

It'd have been interesting if in the course of the Koris mission you actually went through the crashed hulk of the Qwib-Qwib. Got a good look at their living conditions (the Alarei - a research vessel - differed greatly from the description of standard conditions in Ascension and the codex), have a bit of discussion on fleet logistics. It was all in the codex; no reason it couldn't be revisited.

[Mrs_Stick]

Around and Around we go.

[DeinonSlayer]

Around and Around we go.

The cycle cannot be broken.

[Mrs_Stick]

You would think (random thought) that the turians would be nicer to the Quarians. I mean you the movie fleet and flotilla, the Turian trying to get into the Quarian girls suit on illium private conversation my foot. Everytime I turned around there was a Quarian and Turian type romance.

Guess not all are bad but imagine the non combatant Quarian finding out her Military Turian Husband was part of blowing them up off a planet.

The comedy in my head is kind of awesome right now.

[shodiswe]

And why are the geth innocent victims? When was enough enough 300 years earlier? When they had wiped out the race? Leaving a only a few million alive is still genocide kid, even if they "let" them escape. They were still guilty of extermination of innocent men, women, children, babies, and old people, and even those who supported them. 
 
The difference between the Quarians and the Geth is that the Quarians had a leadership. The Geth do not. The Geth have a consensus where they all agreed to exterminate the Quarians on Rannoch. When some escaped they had to reach another consensus "should we exterminate the Quarians in space who left?" They didn't say "no," they didn't say "yes." They didn't reach any kind of agreement among themselves. That's why there was never any peace. The consensus isn't a democracy.

So, if you assign 3 or 5 leaders to hold a title and then decide to annihilate Billions of people using billions of soldiers and volunteers. Then noone can be blamed except for those 3-5 people? Everyone else who tried to shutof(notice it didn' work, then shoot a geth) is innocent? Just because they"obeyed orders" from leaders they recognise as their leaders that they belive in.

Then you got a mob of people who were first telling the Quarians to stop, then after a lot of people wer killed, started fighting for their lives ever since they got attacked by this other group.

So, the group of people who defended themselves are "guilty"? while the people who were just following "orders" are not?

Interrogator: How could you be a part of killing millions of innocent unarmed people?

Prisoner of war: *Shrug* I was just following orders. Don't blame me!

Interrogator: But we got pictures of you lining up people and shooting them! Who would you blame?

Prisoner of war: Oh, well, the Admirals ofcourse! They died in an accident a while back or natural causes. One way or another.

Interrogator: Ok, you are free to go, I certainly can't blame you for following orders.

Seriously, that comment that people who follow orders can't be held responsible is getting old. It's like when you got a bunch of gangmembers or terrorists running around shooting people, and robbing banks. Then they say, "We were just following orders!".

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Strawman Shodiswe. Did I say the Quarians were not responsible for anything? No. I did not. You just want to defend genocide.

[Kel Riever]

I don't worry too much about picking either Geth or Quarians over one another because once again the poor writing makes picking either pretty stupid.

 

The formula for peace between the two is pretty standard, so that is the way to break.  

 

If you want to hold species accountable for genocide, then kill all of them, because none of them are better than the Reapers.

 

Start with the humans.  Kill your ME1-3 disks.  Crack them in half and go play a different game.

 

Congrats, you killed Shepard, a member of the human race which is responsible for countless genocides.

 

This may sound like I am disagreeing with Julia, but basically I am agreeing with her.  Picking the quarians or geth due to moral high ground is sanctimonious.  The geth are no better than the quarians.  They do not deserve any more of a break just because they were created by the quarians, not past the point they become sentient.  So the geth having the right to kill quarians is a bunch of who ha, two wrongs make a right nonsense.

[Excella Gionne]

All the arcs are messy...I just really want to see how the original script would have turned out....Legion being a complex platform doesn't make a whole lot of sense at all. It's even more weird when you ask the Geth VI about what happened to it after the Collectors were defeated. He says the exact same thing Legion said. Legion is a broken character in ME3, every character that talks about evolution being precious was crap, both Mordin and Legion, but I could argue about Legion's character on another post.....

[SporkFu]

...or they could have reached out to a Council faction and said hey, we can contribute our fleet if you can help us secure our civilians.

I think if the council had actually entertained the idea of aiding the quarians -- who aren't even on the council -- while refusing to do the same for the humans, there may have been some consequences. If that actually happened and I were Shepard, I would have said, "go **** yourself." when the turian councilor asked me to rescue their primarch on Menae. Then I would have gone seeking my own alliance with the krogan. 

[DeinonSlayer]

I think if the council had actually entertained the idea of aiding the quarians -- who aren't even on the council -- while refusing to do the same for the humans, there may have been some consequences. If that actually happened and I were Shepard, I would have said, "go **** yourself." when the turian councilor asked me to rescue their primarch on Menae. Then I would have gone seeking my own alliance with the krogan. 

There's also the bit about how none of them were inclined to help find a place for the Quarians to live in the last three hundred years, and drove them off of at least one world they tried to settle at gunpoint. Yeah, sure, now someone would be willing to take them in? How gracious.

[Excella Gionne]

I think if the council had actually entertained the idea of aiding the quarians -- who aren't even on the council -- while refusing to do the same for the humans, there may have been some consequences. If that actually happened and I were Shepard, I would have said, "go **** yourself." when the turian councilor asked me to rescue their primarch on Menae. Then I would have gone seeking my own alliance with the krogan. 

The Quarians, I believe, were forced to withdraw their embassy after the creation of the Geth.

[SporkFu]

There's also the bit about how none of them were inclined to help find a place for the Quarians to live in the last three hundred years, and drove them off of at least one world they tried to settle at gunpoint. Yeah, sure, now someone would be willing to take them in? How gracious.

The Quarians, I believe, were forced to withdraw their embassy after the creation of the Geth.

Looks like the quarians wouldn't approach the council for any help, then. 

[DeinonSlayer]

Looks like the quarians wouldn't approach the council for any help, then.

It's just a fan theory at this point, but I think that when Haestrom's sun cooks off, it'll cut off the Tikkun system from the rest of the galaxy by doing to the primary relay in the Dholen system what was done to the Mu Relay. The Quarians and/or Geth will be isolated from the rest of the galaxy for generations.

Given how they were treated by the rest of the galaxy during the exile, I can't say they'd miss it.

In any case, it'd be interesting to see what civilization looked like there once contact was re-established, however many centuries later.

[Excella Gionne]

Looks like the quarians wouldn't approach the council for any help, then. 

I think they did, but the Council turned them away. The Council aren't exactly nice.

[Obadiah]

I think if the council had actually entertained the idea of aiding the quarians -- who aren't even on the council -- while refusing to do the same for the humans, there may have been some consequences. If that actually happened and I were Shepard, I would have said, "go **** yourself." when the turian councilor asked me to rescue their primarch on Menae. Then I would have gone seeking my own alliance with the krogan.

People are using the crisis to extract concessions. The Quarians aren't under attack, yet. Its not like they would have been asking for Council aid to defend themselves against a hopeless foe like the Reapers. They could have offered their fleet in exchange for something... a planet, a continent on a planet, land on a Turian colony planet, hell, even support in attacking Rannoch. They didn't.

[SporkFu]

It's just a fan theory at this point, but I think that when Haestrom's sun cooks off, it'll cut off the Tikkun system from the rest of the galaxy by doing to the primary relay in the Dholen system what was done to the Mu Relay. The Quarians and/or Geth will be isolated from the rest of the galaxy for generations.

Given how they were treated by the rest of the galaxy during the exile, I can't say they'd miss it.

In any case, it'd be interesting to see what civilization looked like there once contact was re-established, however many centuries later.

Peaceful geth/quarian co-existence in a closed off system with  no contact for hundreds of years? Yeah, I actually think I'd like to see that. 

I think they did, but the Council turned them away. The Council aren't exactly nice.

Ah, I didn't know that.... er, that the quarians approached the council before, not that the council isn't nice. i did know that, heh. 

People are using the crisis to extract concessions. The Quarians aren't under attack, yet. Its not like they would have been asking for Council aid to defend themselves against a hopeless foe like the Reapers. They could have offered their fleet in exchange for something... a planet, a continent on a planet, land on a Turian colony planet, hell, even support in attacking Rannoch. They didn't.

If they weren't doing that, then why approach the council at all? 

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The council never helped them before. What would make them think the council would help them now? With the Council occupied and with their new weapon against the geth it was a perfect time to try to take back Rannoch and get their civilians somewhere. They wouldn't exactly be primary targets for the reapers with such a small population.

 

And given how well that rock behind Shepard could withstand blasts from the main gun of that destroyer without even heating, if they build underground cryo structures, I'd say the Quarians would survive the reapers just fine.

[Farangbaa]

Why the hell do 17 million people need a planet? A whole goddamn planet?

 

That's like the entire population of my country, (that small stain on the map somewhere in Europe: the Netherlands) living on Earth all by themselves.

[Excella Gionne]

'Cause if you don't live in a non-controlled environment, you can die.....

[SporkFu]

Why the hell do 17 million people need a planet? A whole goddamn planet?

 

That's like the entire population of my country, (that small stain on the map somewhere in Europe: the Netherlands) living on Earth all by themselves.

Staying on a fleet of ships floating in space isn't going to be viable forever. For one thing, they are going to reach a threshold of sustainable population if they haven't already. Tali says in ME1 (I think) that the quarians already have laws in place about the number of children quarians are allowed to have. 

[Farangbaa]

Staying on a fleet of ships floating in space isn't going to be viable forever. For one thing, they are going to reach a threshold of sustainable population if they haven't already. Tali says in ME1 (I think) that the quarians already have laws in place about the number of children quarians are allowed to have. 

 

You miss the point. They don't need a planet. They could deal with just having a country... or a big ass island.

[SporkFu]

You miss the point. They don't need a planet. They could deal with just having a country... or a big ass island.

Oh, gotcha. Sorry.

 

Well... Admiral Ra'an talks about settling on the southern continent of Rannoch due to its excellent farmland. I imagine that's where the bulk of the fleet will begin their new life. Then they'll spread out as the population grows. 

[Farangbaa]

Oh, gotcha. Sorry.

 

Well... Admiral Ra'an talks about settling on the southern continent of Rannoch due to its excellent farmland. I imagine that's where the bulk of the fleet will begin their new life. Then they'll spread out as the population grows. 

 

Sure. But during the Reaper war they could've settled for something else, but nooooo, they must have Rannoch. Rannoch, which for all we know at that point, could've been completely stripped of everything. And things might've changed in the MEU, but as far as I'm aware, crops don't grow to being edible in a few days. That takes seasons at, least. 

 

So they're hellbent on getting a planet that can't provide anything for them while they are there. They'll still need help from others to get food. In effect, getting their planet back gives them absolutely nothing but a place to build (!) houses and start growing (!) crops, while facing the most bad ass military in the galaxy: the Reapers.

 

They should've colonised an empty planet in those 300 years they were drifting in space. But noooo, Rannoch!

[DeinonSlayer]

You might read up earlier in the thread, psychovere. We've been over all of this.