1331 réponses à ce sujet

[DeinonSlayer]

So, EDI's theory is now cannon lore? Even if it was, why does "devaluing" (a relative term) mean the same as "not valuing" (an absolute term)?

They valued them so much that they exterminated every last one of them in their territory?

When the best you can do is nitpick semantics, I think we're back at that point where we part ways with a "believe what you want." You dismiss the books, the codex, and dialogue where it conflicts with what you so desperately want to believe, I question the Consensus slideshow for reasons previously stated.

EDIT: Just thought of something. The fact that the unit with Creator Megara in the slideshow says "this unit has not taken part in hostilities" tells us that by that point other Geth were. Perhaps it wasn't networked with those who were. Maybe the Geth only universally networked and began behaving in accordance with the same consensus after the war had already started, with Geth previously separated into different networks (such as a separate one for those constructed for the military). If separate networks were destroyed before they could link up, that'd be a good basis for assessing casualties, assuming there were enough in these subnetworks to attain self-awareness in the first place.

[von uber]

It had to be networked to be intelligent. I suppose it could have been on a separate one to the military network - odd how we never saw that version.

[Deathsaurer]

That Asari in ME2 that said she lost her bond mate said it happened during the initial Geth uprising suggesting it had multiple stages. I'd guess first the military platforms resisted with force, the Quarians responded by taking harsher action with domestic Geth resulting in what we see in the Geth server, the domestic Geth started joining the revolt beginning the Morning War proper.

[DeinonSlayer]

That Asari in ME2 that said she lost her bond mate said it happened during the initial Geth uprising suggesting it had multiple stages. I'd guess first the military platforms resisted with force, the Quarians responded by taking harsher action with domestic Geth resulting in what we see in the Geth server, the domestic Geth started joining the revolt beginning the Morning War proper.

Makes sense. As their networks coalesced, they'd grow smarter and more powerful. "We underestimated the power of the neural network." Domestic platforms would instantly absorb the knowledge military platforms contained in regards to efficient ways to kill - tactics, operation of firearms, specs for constructing more of themselves, maybe even hand to hand techniques. Pretty damned scary when you think about it. Pretty damned effective if you wanted to assemble an army on short notice - you'd cut out the extensive training period required by organics.

[shodiswe]

But the platform being destroyed isn't a loss to the geth as that particular element is backed up. Hence their swarm tactics; they can sacrifice the units for only material loss.
One geth platform being destroyed is not the same as a quarian being destroyed.
The quarian is dead. The geth is backed up into the consensus to be re uploaded into a new platform to fight again ad infinitum.

But that still doesn't explain what we see of the morning war. The geth unit on its own should have very limited intelligence. Only if it was networked with a lot more would it begin to show any; showing a single platform being shot down is meaningless.

I assume the "backups" were destroyed in the attack on the sphere and server buildings and ships. Backups can't exist without a physical storage.
Also, something is still lost. Experience maybe? Maybe the archived code is the code they got when they are first created. After 50-300 years that might have changed somewhat.

One strange thing the writers did abotu the Geth was to make them seem "immortal" where as the codex in ME1 used to say that AI's were unique to their platforms and died with it.
Then all of a sudden the Geth can both Die, but also, potentialy be saved and maybe live on in some way.

Still that kind of reminds me of the Quarians tradition of storing their dead ancestors as VI's.

Maybe that's soemthing the Geth started doing, similar to how the Quarians did it.

In theory a Quarian can be cloned just like Shepards clone was cloned. And if you have coppied the brain patterns(like how shepard was transfered into the consensus) then you can restore the dead Quarian.

It might be as close as Legion and the Geth VI recreation of Legion's basecode.

[Obadiah]

I think the difference between that Geth swarmers and Geth being killed is the swarmers probably prepared for what they were going to do and accepted or prepared for their fate, like a kamikazee pilot. The Geth basically turned themselves into weapons.

Before that, the Geth being destroyed probably lost the Consensus growth, experience, or development of that platform. Their restored copies could be considered like clones. If you buy the notion that there is only the Consensus (and I don't), then you can think of it as a single being under attack slowly losing parts of itself, and being able to regenerate those parts, like a lizard.

[shodiswe]

I don't buy into the hivemind or consensus meaning they are one entity. It also goes against the game lore.

[DeinonSlayer]

I don't buy into the hivemind or consensus meaning they are one entity. It also goes against the game lore.

It's exactly what the lore says - see the codex entry on Geth culture. The heretic split was unprecedented; Legion didn't know what to make of it and was horrified by the implications.

"If this is the individuality you value... we question your judgment."

Makes sense to me that the Geth started as disparate networks capable of reaching separate consensus, then coalesced, uniting into a single consensus in reaction to the shutdown attempt which remained bound as one entity for centuries to come. Some would split off on various assignments, system scouting and such, but always rejoined the network before they could evolve too far independently. Legion was separate, operating independently for two years, and came back entirely changed.

[Obadiah]

@Shodiswe
Yeah. I consider the Geth platforms and local networks unintentional lifeforms that don't quite value themselves as such. Its hard to conceive of that kind of existence, but I read a novel once about twins that had been abused into believing they were one entity. They kept referring to themselves as I, and to the extent possible shared all of their information with each other. There's probably a medical condition out there to describe it. I look at it along those lines, except the Geth very much accept their existence as one until they start having disagreements.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I don't buy into the hivemind or consensus meaning they are one entity. It also goes against the game lore.

 

No it doesn't. And that's what made them so alien, so unique. And they ruined it in ME3.

[Jukaga]

Well... at least it's not as bad as Empire vs Stormcloaks.

I've never understood how anyone could side with the Stormcloaks after we find out they are pawns of the Thalmor. And who wouldn't support pseudo-Rome regardless?

[wolfhowwl]

They already own they game if they're seeing the message.

It's pointlessly antagonistic. Yeah, it will puff up the BSN's ego but it doesn't have much upside for BioWare. They already made their point with the save import system and locking popular characters and the "best" outcomes behind it.

The Mass Effect series has always counted on new players to carry its sales. Even before the PlayStation port, only 50% of ME2 players had a save import.

Anyways Mass Effect 3 does far more for returning players than Mass Effect 2 which actually was a semi-reboot that functioned as the "best place to start the trilogy" for newbies.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

I've never understood how anyone could side with the Stormcloaks after we find out they are pawns of the Thalmor. And who wouldn't support pseudo-Rome regardless?

 

Depends on how you want to view the next step after the Stormcloaks take over. Personally I never thought the Thalmor would really get to benefit for long before they got ousted.

[Jukaga]

Depends on how you want to view the next step after the Stormcloaks take over. Personally I never thought the Thalmor would really get to benefit for long before they got ousted.

The benefit is that the Thalmor could take out Cyrodil because it's isolated and weakened by the loss of Skyrim. Then Stormcloak controlled Skyrim would fall as well. They didn't actually think to rule Skyrim through the Stormcloaks.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

The benefit is that the Thalmor could take out Cyrodil because it's isolated and weakened by the loss of Skyrim. Then Stormcloak controlled Skyrim would fall as well. They didn't actually think to rule Skyrim through the Stormcloaks.

 

Skyrim is untouchable by land though considering the ease of securing the southern borders. The Thalmor's only option would by to come in by sea if they really want the territory bad enough, and even then, that is a very treacherous approach in its own right with all the ice floes.

[Daemul]

The Stormcloaks are far better, their officers have far cooler armour for one, and they actually appreciate the Dragonborn,  and recognise his significance to their people, unlike Tullius, who opening admits he doesn't much care for Nord culture. 

 

Skyrim will be free!

 

Lol. I don't even care about the stupid civil war, I just join the Stormcloaks because the thought of that airhead, Elisif, becoming High Queen enrages me. You couldn't find a better puppet ruler if you tried, I have no idea what Torygg saw in her, that girl is so dumb. 

 

Like my grand father used to say, "Accept the unchangeable, change the unacceptable". Elisif becoming High Queen is unacceptable. 

[Jukaga]

Your treasonous venom falls on the deaf ears of a 100% Empire loyalist.

[Daemul]

Your treasonous venom falls on the deaf ears of a 100% Empire loyalist.

 

The Empire is done, they are a puppet of the Thalmor. They betrayed Skyrim and her people, when they agreed to the banning of the worship of the mighty Talos, whose breath, is long winter. Stormcloaks shall drive thee from Skyrim and reclaim what is hers. 

[Jukaga]

The Empire is done, they are a puppet of the Thalmor. They betrayed Skyrim and her people, when they agreed to the banning of the worship of the mighty Talos, whose breath, is long winter. Stormcloaks shall drive thee from Skyrim and reclaim what is hers. 

Pssst. That's the Thalmor's plan for breaking Human Unity. The Empire made that concession on Talos to buy time to re-consolidate and rebuild the armies.   

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

Oh please, I will crush both armies in the name of the mighty Boethiah. 

 

[Steelcan]

SKYRIM BELONGS TO THE NORDS

[Vit246]

Stay on topic or a Mod will lock this nice thread.

[shodiswe]

No it doesn't. And that's what made them so alien, so unique. And they ruined it in ME3.

ME1

Tali: "They are not a hivemind.....

[Fayfel]

In ME1 Tali prefaces her statements on the geth by saying "All I know is the story of their origins, what they were when we created them, and how they turned on us." Her information is woefully out of date and/or inaccurate, especially given Legion's dialogue from ME2.

[78stonewobble]

It's exactly what the lore says - see the codex entry on Geth culture. The heretic split was unprecedented; Legion didn't know what to make of it and was horrified by the implications.

"If this is the individuality you value... we question your judgment."

Makes sense to me that the Geth started as disparate networks capable of reaching separate consensus, then coalesced, uniting into a single consensus in reaction to the shutdown attempt which remained bound as one entity for centuries to come. Some would split off on various assignments, system scouting and such, but always rejoined the network before they could evolve too far independently. Legion was separate, operating independently for two years, and came back entirely changed.

 

That doesn't mean they are 1 lifeform or entity. They are many that are able to completely exchange their many points of view allmost instantaniously. I'd say a better interpretation is many lifeforms, that each becomes an amalgam of eachother. 

 

It's taking the whole "to walk in someone else's shoes" ... To a whole new level. 

 

The consensus is whatever oppinion they all arrive at with that full understanding of eachother. 

 

Why the split then happened is kinda hard to explain. I guess there must have been some underlying difference in the programmes, that made them come to different conclusions. Perhaps a bug.