100 réponses à ce sujet

[Deerber]

Is the general rule of thumb to hit focus just before charging up and using poison strike?

Actually, I'd say that's the worst possible way to use. Waste of an I-frame...

[WestLakeDragon]

The build from the OP is the one I've been running for a while. It makes a really great gun class, plus PS makes for a much better teleport than her dodge, so I tend to use it as such.

[megabeast37215]

So regarding the Cabal, how or when does one get the most out of biotic focus?
 
Because I play this class with an adrenaline mod and feel that speed and mobility is pretty important to survival I 'm not getting the most out of Focus because I'm too busy zipping around at a fast pace.  This last build I have not specc'd into nightshade blades at all.  Is the general rule of thumb to hit focus just before charging up and using poison strike?

I spam focus constantly until I see a target, then I save my cooldown for Poison Strike. I like to keep Focus up at all times.

[capn233]

I had better luck running a more "prime all the things" sort of gun if I wanted to PS a lot.

[DemiserofD]

Yeah, honestly I've never been able to use the invincibility frame from Focus to any great effect. It seems like invariably lag makes me mis-time it, I get staggered, and die before I have the chance to use it. Even worse, I still think I have it in the back of my mind, so I take more risks that could otherwise be avoided.

 

Instead I just keep it primed at all times(6b instead of 6a). With 20 seconds duration and a short cooldown, you almost always have poison strike ready to go by the time you see an enemy and run up to them. Plus, with the additional move speed you get hit far less often, so you don't NEED the emergency button shield restoration. And if you take DoT effects, just poison strike a few times. The invulnerability for a second or two you get from it is usually enough to cancel about 90% of the DoT damage.

[Miniditka77]

There are lots of fun ways to play the Cabal.  My favorites are a pure melee build and a Raider build based on firing as many close range shots as possible as quickly as possible, and teleporting out of danger when necessary.  Neither of those builds are as host-dependent as other Vanguard builds.  

 

I have never mastered using Poison Strike, but I would really like to.  I have a feeling that it's probably a little less effective on console than on PC, because PC players can 180 instantly, where we console players have to slowly spin around.  I am probably going to try using the Raider, Hurricane, or Talon for this type of build. 

[ROBOTICSUPERMAN]

well I just used your build but with a talon, and incendiary ammo. yes its a powerhouse and yes it is potentially invincible, however, despite me hosting, sometimes PS would not go. no PS, no invincibility. it seems like the similar problems you get on biotic charge vanguards where you tap charge as often as possible, but no charge happens. guess that's working as intended

[Bodkins Odds]

There are lots of fun ways to play the Cabal.  My favorites are a pure melee build and a Raider build based on firing as many close range shots as possible as quickly as possible, and teleporting out of danger when necessary.  Neither of those builds are as host-dependent as other Vanguard builds.  

 

I have never mastered using Poison Strike, but I would really like to.  I have a feeling that it's probably a little less effective on console than on PC, because PC players can 180 instantly, where we console players have to slowly spin around.  I am probably going to try using the Raider, Hurricane, or Talon for this type of build. 

 

Yeah, on Exbawks I have to PS, dodge through a wall, circle back and PS again, whereas on the PC I can simply turn around and PS targets repeatedly. I loved her either way though.

[megabeast37215]

well I just used your build but with a talon, and incendiary ammo. yes its a powerhouse and yes it is potentially invincible, however, despite me hosting, sometimes PS would not go. no PS, no invincibility. it seems like the similar problems you get on biotic charge vanguards where you tap charge as often as possible, but no charge happens. guess that's working as intended

If PS would teleport you to a place where you could not stand (edge of the map, inside an object) sometimes it won't go off.. sometimes it puts you face up to said border.

[DemiserofD]

Yeah, if you're aimed into an inaccessible location, ps won't go off more often than not. One thing that sometimes helps is to aim at the ground rather than straight forward. Otherwise, you just have to strafe around a few feet until you have a good line. 

[WestLakeDragon]

Yeah, honestly I've never been able to use the invincibility frame from Focus to any great effect. It seems like invariably lag makes me mis-time it, I get staggered, and die before I have the chance to use it. Even worse, I still think I have it in the back of my mind, so I take more risks that could otherwise be avoided.

The invincibillity frames can really come in handy I find. Much of the time they can go unnoticed but I find the really can change things when I'm going head to head with a Ravager, or if I use it as a warp ball from a Banshee is about to make contact. Against guns or melee attacks, I don't tend to use BF for the I frames but against large attacks, even with (some) lag it isn't too bad to handle I find.

[DemiserofD]

The invincibillity frames can really come in handy I find. Much of the time they can go unnoticed but I find the really can change things when I'm going head to head with a Ravager, or if I use it as a warp ball from a Banshee is about to make contact. Against guns or melee attacks, I don't tend to use BF for the I frames but against large attacks, even with (some) lag it isn't too bad to handle I find.

 

The thing is, poison strike works just as well as far as invincibility frames are concerned. AND it gets you out of the line of fire instantly. Sure it doesn't restore your shields, but biotic focus doesn't restore your shield gate anyway, so if you're taking heavy fire it might as well not exist. And if you're NOT taking heavy fire...well, just hide in a corner for a few seconds.

Plus, 20% DR and 7.5% movement speed is just so fantastic it's hard for me to take anything else

[Wizard of Ox]

A Cabal without NB is lack a QMI without AG. Also, Acolyte build? 

[Deerber]

Writing it here since the other thread was locked. Every kit I listed is either capable of getting more than one I-frame in 2.4 secs, or to be completely invulnerable for the whole 2.4 secs, OP.

 

Any Volus has shield boost + heavy melee, which makes them nigh invulnerable for even more than 2.4 secs.

 

Stimpacks grant I-frames, and yes they're grenade limited, but if you need more than 49 of them in a match then... I have bad news for you, really. So in practice, they're limitless.

 

Kroguard and Batguard can achieve complete immunity by heavy meleeing after a charge, and they can do so more than twice every 2.4 secs.

 

Novaguard doesn't need explanations, I hope.

[Kurt M.]

P.S. If you don't host, you're in for incredible, mind-altering pain. This is your only warning.

 
I think we all Vanguards know that
 

Novaguard doesn't need explanations, I hope.

Talking as a NovaGuard...we're not that immune by far. I'm doing pretty well in Silver matches (usually the first of my squad, mostly 15 min. matches), and still I don't feel qualified for Gold matches by far. Too easy for a Super-Elite to knock and kill me, or execute a cursed one hit-kill on me.

 

Besides, I still hate Collectors with a passion...

[Chealec]

I predominantly use PS for mobility and to detonate ammo powers so it doesn't really need to go to 6 ... using it situationally means I get into less of a mess with Biotic Focus (which I pretty much spam). Since it's a melee build, the additional 30% melee damage from Biotic Focus is a must-have for me.

 

Not an invincible build perhaps - but you *can* actually use it off-host to good effect.

[Deerber]

 

Talking as a NovaGuard...we're not that immune by far. I'm doing pretty well in Silver matches (usually the first of my squad, mostly 15 min. matches), and still I don't feel qualified for Gold matches by far. Too easy for a Super-Elite to knock and kill me, or execute a cursed one hit-kill on me.

 

Besides, I still hate Collectors with a passion...

 

Talk for yourself

Also, you might find one of the links in my signature useful

[Kurt M.]

Talk for yourself

Also, you might find one of the links in my signature useful

 

OK, I get it. But even if I managed to master the timings, I still wouldn't go Gold as a "Pure Novaguard" as I am now (I onlyy have a pistol (a pretty basic Phalanx), which I use as a finisher, and also for the +15% Power Damage mod), because it just takes forever to take down even an Atlas. Better not to talk about a group of them.

 

Besides, even if you manage to dodge the one hit-killers, there are still the stun + kill. Come to think of it, I've died more times because of that than because of one hit killers. Maybe I should rebind my dodge key and practise rolls a bit...

 

...back to the point: nop, the right weapon is the answer for that flaw of the Vanguards IMO. Problem is that with the Venom nerfed as it is, I'm not even sure which weapon to choose. It must be an anti-SperElite weapon, and Cobra rockets aren't infinite

[Cirvante]

P.S. If you don't host, you're in for incredible, mind-altering pain. This is your only warning.

 

I play drellgod off-host. Come at me, bro.

[N7 Tigger]

The concept of... nah, can't be bothered.

 

On topic, I only seem to benefit from the invincibility frames of Biotic Focus by pure luck, even on host. Sometimes I time it right but more often I don't. But 25% DR and 40% of your barriers back still makes her very hard to kill.

 

My only problem with her is Poison Strike. If an Atlas is facing me and I Poison Strike through it then by the time my feet touch the ground on the other side I'm already getting shot in the back. I've heard people blame lag but I think the game is cheating. When you press the button for Poison Strike (or Biotic Charge or Shadow Strike for that matter) the game knows where you will end up and tells the enemy units to attack that spot. It's kinda cheap. I mean, how many times do they think a Marauder can Elbow of Doom me out of a Shadow Strike before I call bullsh*t?

[DemiserofD]

The concept of... nah, can't be bothered.

 

On topic, I only seem to benefit from the invincibility frames of Biotic Focus by pure luck, even on host. Sometimes I time it right but more often I don't. But 25% DR and 40% of your barriers back still makes her very hard to kill.

 

My only problem with her is Poison Strike. If an Atlas is facing me and I Poison Strike through it then by the time my feet touch the ground on the other side I'm already getting shot in the back. I've heard people blame lag but I think the game is cheating. When you press the button for Poison Strike (or Biotic Charge or Shadow Strike for that matter) the game knows where you will end up and tells the enemy units to attack that spot. It's kinda cheap. I mean, how many times do they think a Marauder can Elbow of Doom me out of a Shadow Strike before I call bullsh*t?

 

This is why hosting with double strike is very important.  If you're not hosting, then honestly, you might as well not take double strike, because the delay you get on your second strike is sometimes so bad you might as well just have a cooldown instead. At least without double strike you can take advantage of the extra range.

 

But if you DO host, then you can poison strike directly next to your enemy(damaging it and potentially staggering it) and then, if you're in danger, instantly poison strike again, hitting them for a second hit of damage(killing most mook enemies, even phantoms) and immediately escaping from danger. But agreed about elbow of doom after shadow striking, that's probably the most irritating thing I've experienced in this game.

 

Writing it here since the other thread was locked. Every kit I listed is either capable of getting more than one I-frame in 2.4 secs, or to be completely invulnerable for the whole 2.4 secs, OP.

 

Any Volus has shield boost + heavy melee, which makes them nigh invulnerable for even more than 2.4 secs.

 

Stimpacks grant I-frames, and yes they're grenade limited, but if you need more than 49 of them in a match then... I have bad news for you, really. So in practice, they're limitless.

 

Kroguard and Batguard can achieve complete immunity by heavy meleeing after a charge, and they can do so more than twice every 2.4 secs.

 

Novaguard doesn't need explanations, I hope.

 

That might be true, but all of those are still limited in some way. Volus relies on stopping doing damage pretty much entirely for the duration of their invulnerability, so it doesn't do much good unless you're able to anticipate when you will be taking heavy burst damage. @stimpacks, yeah you can spam them a lot if you like, but like you say, you're not supposed to. You're still supposed to avoid damage, compared to the cabal that can be right down in the thick of the action most of the time. With stimpacks you can, but with poison strike you will be invincible about 75% of the time. And taking all the fire your teammates would be taking, with all the advantages that entails.

 

And I could be wrong, but don't the heavy melee animations only give 50% DR while they're active? I'm pretty sure I've gone down while in a heavy melee animation before.

 

Let's not talk about the novaguard <_>

[TheNightSlasher]

And I could be wrong, but don't the heavy melee animations only give 50% DR while they're active? I'm pretty sure I've gone down while in a heavy melee animation before.

 

Let's not talk about the novaguard <_>

Different heavy melees give different DR. For example, Batarian heavy melee gives 90% DR, krogan headbutt gives 50% IIRC and so on...

 

And also, a well-played novaguard is one of the best tanks in the game. And there are quite a few characters that give more reliable i-frames compared to cabal because she is extremely glitchy off-host.

[capn233]

^ Novaguard was the original tank character.

 

Well until they would get charge-glitched off the map.

[Deerber]

Different heavy melees give different DR. For example, Batarian heavy melee gives 90% DR, krogan headbutt gives 50% IIRC and so on...

 

And also, a well-played novaguard is one of the best tanks in the game. And there are quite a few characters that give more reliable i-frames compared to cabal because she is extremely glitchy off-host.

 

All heavy melee provide 50% listed DR, apart from the Batarian that provides 75%, and the Volus which does its own thing.

[TheNightSlasher]

All heavy melee provide 50% listed DR, apart from the Batarian that provides 75%, and the Volus which does its own thing.

Ya, Batarian is 75%, not 90%. My bad.

 

The other heavy melee provide 50% DR.

 

Just checked this spreadsheet - Link