16 réponses à ce sujet

[Killdren88]

Started playing DA:O again to prep myself for Inquisition, and my main Play through is a Human Nobel. I play them as someone who desires revenge naturally and after thinking about Awakening I need to ask. Do I blame Howe for what happen to the Couslands? Or The Architect for what he revealed in Awakening? Did Howe have the coup planned and the Blight occurred simply around the same time? Or did Howe exploit the Blight? Dose my Nobel focus his hate on Howe on the Darkspawn?

[KaiserShep]

Howe was more than likely being opportunistic, and exploiting the growing chaos the Blight was bringing. Without the threat of darkspawn drawing the most attention, he would not have been able to maintain his position, since Loghain would not be able to provide support. Besides, the Blight, or some kind of major conflict would be necessary to attempt it, because Highever Castle would normally be too well guarded for someone like Howe to take over. Fergus and his sibling, along with the rest of the men that would have been with him, would be far too many to deal with.

 

Personally, I think with the likes of Howe and the darkspawn, there's enough hate to spread around for the both of them. I don't take it out on Howe's family beyond Rendon, however. Nathaniel, I feel, doesn't deserve to die. The Architect always dies for me, however, because the only good darkspawn is a dead darkspawn.

[Killdren88]

Seems logical enough I suppose. I get to run my blade into the bastard who murdered my mother and father, and murder the monster who made it possible.

[Ciaran Cousland]

I agree. Nathaniel is always recruited no matte who my Warden is. I think he's kind of a D-bag, but what his father did had nothing to do with him. 

 

I've wanted to side with the architect but by the time I get there I have that "This jerk attacked my keep and killed my people" moment. It's not a very realistic decision to be given. What kind of Warden is going to team up with darkspawn that killed his fellow Wardens?

[luna1124]

Loghain was planning on taking over the throne. Howe was ordered to get the nobles "in line". Also I think it had something to do with the Orlesians and Loghains hate for them. They talk about it in the beginning of the noble origin (but cannot remember exactly). Loghain said at the landsmeet Howe will have to answer for his own actions, but he is a liar. He lied about the slavers and hiring Jowan to poison Eamon. I kill Howe and I kill the Architect.

 

~~ADDED~~ Oh, and most of the time I kill Loghain

[TEWR]

Started playing DA:O again to prep myself for Inquisition, and my main Play through is a Human Nobel. I play them as someone who desires revenge naturally and after thinking about Awakening I need to ask. Do I blame Howe for what happen to the Couslands? Or The Architect for what he revealed in Awakening? Did Howe have the coup planned and the Blight occurred simply around the same time? Or did Howe exploit the Blight? Dose my Nobel focus his hate on Howe on the Darkspawn?

 

Howe was setting things in motion I believe before the Blight was officially announced. At the time of the HN origin, the Wardens had spotted the horde 3 weeks prior to that. So he would've certainly been planning this for months, if only to get the finer points nailed down. Varel was even imprisoned because he didn't hold to what Howe was planning and would've sent word to the Couslands.

 

The Blight ended up happening, and it just so happened that Howe saw this as the perfect opportunity. Course, I think he was a blithering idiot to storm a castle, even if it was lightly manned and he was at least thorough enough to kill everyone. Thing is though, word of that would eventually spread. So he was never going to actually hold onto it.

 

It's only by sheer happenstance and a political alliance that Loghain needed but detested that his duly deserved fate is postponed, and even then after the Blight if he was still around Anora and Loghain would've seen to dealing with him. Howe thinks himself smarter then he really is. At best, he's a poisonous manipulator who fucks things up far too often (embezzling, killing Elves for fun, etc.)

 

Loghain only ends up turning to him because of the military weight he has, which if antagonized would lead to a cutoff of much needed supplies for Loghain's troops and a potential third front to fight on. So he gives Howe a position of political clout, hoping to the Maker that the man will prove himself useful.

 

But Howe goes through with a number of things Loghain did not know of or authorize, and eventually Loghain's in far too deep to get out of the relationship, so he just lets it remain. It's the only thing he could do in terms of Howe that wouldn't also screw over Ferelden even more. The lesser of two evils.

 

Ultimately, the blame rests squarely on Howe's shoulders. He made the choice to usurp the teyrnir of Highever. He was planning this for a while.

 

The Architect has nothing to do with the fate of the Couslands.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

I've wanted to side with the architect but by the time I get there I have that "This jerk attacked my keep and killed my people" moment. It's not a very realistic decision to be given. What kind of Warden is going to team up with darkspawn that killed his fellow Wardens?

 

It's been a while, but from what I remember the Architect didn't attack the Vigil. He sent darkspawn to talk to the Wardens at the Vigil (to warn them about the Mother?) and the Wardens attacked (because darkspawn) so the darkspawn said screw it and attacked right back, with enthusiasm.

[Ciaran Cousland]

Well I can't say that I blame them lol... but that's a fair point. The whole idea of a civil darkspawn just never sat right with me anyway though. The may have partially regained their minds, but who's to say that qouldn't make them more dangerous in the long run?

[BlazingSpeed]

TEWR makes a good point about Howe storming Highever castle you can't plan something like that in a week you know.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Well I can't say that I blame them lol... but that's a fair point. The whole idea of a civil darkspawn just never sat right with me anyway though. The may have partially regained their minds, but who's to say that qouldn't make them more dangerous in the long run?

 

Oh, agreed. Intelligence and the ability to reason means they have the potential to be much more dangerous. Just like the other intelligent species in Thedas, really, only with the added bonus of blight sickness and procreation...issues. Though their mages are theoretically immune to possession...

[Killdren88]

TEWR makes a good point about Howe storming Highever castle you can't plan something like that in a week you know.

 

Yeah, but if not the Blight, How would Howe get the bulk of the army away from Highever? No way he could be the entire army.

[Sir Pounce-a-lot]

Here's an interesting thought:  Were Howe and Loghain tainted by Darkspawn?  It probably wasn't the Architect, but the Archdemon might have been smart enough to turn the humans against each other.  He could have sent operatives out to corrupt Howe and Loghain.  The Archdemon might have also partially corrupted the Lady of the Forest, causing her to attack the Dalish at the worst possible time.  We're familiar with ghouls, but their mind and body are fully corrupted.  Howe and Loghain might have only partially been mentally corrupted.

[KaiserShep]

There's nothing to really suggest that either of them were corrupted by anything other than their own ambition or paranoia. Aside from that, having something like the darkspawn taint account for what they did would severely weaken their characters. Their malice not being their own turns them into meaningless puppets for us to kill, rather than antagonists in their own right.

[Han Shot First]

I think Loghain was starting losing his grip on sanity (he was certainly paranoid), but I don't think it had anything to do with the taint. His motivations were his own, and I don't believe he was getting marching orders from the archdemon. Howe was just ruthlessly ambitious and an opportunist.

[Denthris]

From what I've read elsewhere, Logain perhaps knew of the Corispondence between Calin and the Orlesian Queen, which was talking about Cailin dropping Anora because she had not born an heir. Given Logain's past with the Orlesians, its no surprise he does start getting paranoid. He does try to talk Calin out of being on the the front lines with the Wardens. He probably planned on marching his army out, regardless. So I doubt he has been corrupted by Darkspawn. Not to mention, if he was tainted, then Duncan could probably sense the taint.

 

As for the OP question. Its hard to know where Logain and Howe's plotting stops and starts. But Howe definitely takes advantage of most of the armies being with the King. The simply fact that they work to exterminate the entire family is a sign that they don't want to leave any remaining Cousland around to have any claim to the teritory. Perhaps he was already aware that Logain was going to pull his army back and the other Couslands should of been killed.

 

Nathaniel I don't blame one bit. He was in Kirkwall during the Blight, he did not have any clue of what happened during the blight, hence why he blames the Wardens till he finds out the truth. He is frustrated at the Wardens/His Father because he lost everything. Name, Title, possestions, etc.  Yet he is willing to work to redeem his name, when you actually show him kindness.

 

As for the Architect, he is an interesting one and definitely a game changer.  

 

1. The only way for him to get reinforcements directly is for him to Free a Broodmother, and seeing how badly that turned against him the first time he did so, he won't be in a rush to do that again. His army was signifcantly smaller than the "Mothers" and he wasted most of it by attacking Kal'Hirol, the Mother's Lair, and accidently Virgil's keep. 

 

2. The only other way he might be able to reinforce himself is some form of mind control through the taint. As viewed by Anders in DA II DLC Legacy.

 

(Their is only one inconsistency with his claim that he took only Dead warden's as their was that one alive warden in the Silverite mine, with his legs broken, but their is no dialogue option to call him a Liar in that regard, so he can't offer a defense as to why he did so.)

 

3. He comes across as naieve, as he is still learning what it is to be Sapient. He is an outcast from his own species, and is probably attacked on site by almost everything else he might of bumped into. He left the Warden Commander live, other than taking his/her blood. He treates Seranni and (the former Warden Goul) both with respect, almost like a friendship. He makes mistakes, but proves he can learn from them.

 

In my opinion, he is more likely to cause more accidents like Blight, or Awakening, but you could also argue that an early Blight was a smaller blight. While the Blight did ravage half of Ferelden, from random chatter in DA II their was comments and even doubts that it was an actual blight because it was put down rather quickly compared to others.  I doubt he has any huge interest in taking over the world, or deliberatley spreading the blight, and his Disciple proved that he was cabale of being good, going around helping people, even if he was spreading the blight disease. 

 

I generally spare him, as I mention he is a game changer. He is just as likely to help the Wardens as much as he is to be a threat, provided the Wardens don't attack him on sight. 

[Orihime]

=s i hated howe for betraying the couslands but the architect for some reason hes reason and the way he seem was not evil in my opinion got a nice helpful creature xD

[congokong]

Howe: the butcher of Denerim. Probably the character I hated most in the DA series.

 

Anyway, there's plenty of blame to go around. The Architect was incompetent and too dangerous with his greater good mentality and Howe was an evil opportunist.