82 réponses à ce sujet

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

 

One thing I still wonder though is why they just didn't turn off the beam?

 

Harby is firing lasers, not thanix. Thanix weapons at that range would be like a nuke. Why didn't they just turn off the beam? I don't know. I didn't write that crap.

[Mcfly616]

Why should he anyway, he was there to prevent anyone from reaching the beam, the Normandy was too big to go through it.

Don't use common sense or logic around here. You'll just be labeled 'nonsensical'.

[von uber]

Don't use common sense or logic around here. You'll just be labeled 'nonsensical'.

 

Or, you know, they could air drop a Mako out right in front of the beam and have the squishy things inside get out and go right in..

Or have a squad jump out.

Or a squad parachute out.

And so on.

[themikefest]

Or they could've had Anderson and a few of his soldiers go to the beam while Shepard and squad is fighting the uglies and the destroyer is firing at them while protecting the misslies. I guess that would be to easy.

[Mcfly616]

Sure, if Anderson was actually there, Harbinger would've held the door open for him. "Hurry up, man. I gotsta get to vaporizing your peeps."

[KaiserShep]

Gotta love how Anderson was always able to run ahead of Shepard in the prologue.

[themikefest]

Sure, if Anderson was actually there, Harbinger would've held the door open for him. "Hurry up, man. I gotsta get to vaporizing your peeps."

What does Harbinger have to do with it? All Anderson had to do is head to the beam while the uglies and destroyer are paying attention to Shepard and squad instead of heading to Shepard's location.

[Mcfly616]

Ahh, right...because Anderson was just strolling along the last sidewalk in London, while Shepard and co. were fighting for their lives. I forgot we were the only ones doing battle while Hammer was patiently waiting for us to finish up.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Gotta love how Anderson was always able to run ahead of Shepard in the prologue.

 

People keep wondering how Anderson made it into the beam before Shepard. That's because for an old man he sure can hoof it.

[KaiserShep]

Ahh, right...because Anderson was just strolling along the last sidewalk in London, while Shepard and co. were fighting for their lives. I forgot we were the only ones doing battle while Hammer was patiently waiting for us to finish up.

 

I think the point themikefest is making is that converging at the missile site wouldn't be necessary, and more than likely, it wasted time that could have been spent heading for the Citadel. Heck, considering that Shepard & co. successfully take down the destroyer with the help of EDI, had Anderson's group simply kept pushing forward to the beam, there would have been a much better chance of one or more people getting up the beam unscathed before Harbinger had time to hit the ground. Only thing is, it would have been Anderson or someone else that got up there, rather than Shepard.

 

To me, the better alternative would have been to have the bulk of Hammer serve as a diversion that heads for the missiles while Shepard leads the infiltration team to the beam. There's no need to go back and get them, because this only has to go on long enough for someone to get to the Citadel.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Or, you know, they could air drop a Mako out right in front of the beam and have the squishy things inside get out and go right in..

Or have a squad jump out.

Or a squad parachute out.

And so on.

 

Ya, just back the ship up like 10 feet and drop all those guys off right in front of the beam -- no running required! Although that might have been difficult considering the Normandy's wings would have to dig through all that dirt they're clipping through.

 

So, because of the way technology presumably works in this game, drop some guys off in air between the ground and the Citadel. ODST style.

[themikefest]

People keep wondering how Anderson made it into the beam before Shepard. That's because for an old man he sure can hoof it.

Didn't Anderson say he followed Shepard up?

[KaiserShep]

It's possible that the beam does not lead to just that one place, and there might have been multiple outlets where bodies come up.

[SporkFu]

People keep wondering how Anderson made it into the beam before Shepard. That's because for an old man he sure can hoof it.

What makes it even better is that once on the citadel, he says he followed shep up.

 

EDIT: Damn, ninja'd by themikefest again

[ImaginaryMatter]

Didn't Anderson say he followed Shepard up?

 

Really? I can't keep track any more. Although it doesn't make much more sense than beating Shepard to the punch.

[Mcfly616]

I think the point themikefest is making is that converging at the missile site wouldn't be necessary. Heck, considering that Shepard & co. successfully take down the destroyer with the help of EDI, had Anderson's group simply kept pushing forward to the beam, there would have been a much better chance of one or more people getting up the beam unscathed before Harbinger had time to hit the ground.

"there would've been a much better chance..."

hmm for a place that holds hypotheticals in such high regard, I guess it shouldn't be surprising when it's frowned upon when one dislikes something, but is then used to support an argument against something else one dislikes.


Ofcourse, dividing ones already depleted forces could also have been a mistake. Consolidating your remaining troops and assets would've been the most logical decision at the time. And ofcourse they had no way of knowing Harbinger was going to crash the party until they regrouped and heard it over the radio.


Hypotheticals.

[Mcfly616]

It's possible that the beam does not lead to just that one place, and there might have been multiple outlets where bodies come up.

could be. The game implies as much. All the hallways are moving and realigning when you get up there.

Either way, Anderson "following you up" is indeed a plot hole. There's nobody alive....let alone, 'around' when Shepard regains consciousness after being hit by the beam.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

It is also possible that others made it to the beam ahead of Shepard before Harbinger landed, and were fighting reapers on the Citadel. They just didn't get to the area that Shepard did because of reasons of video game plot.

[Han Shot First]

Head canon reason?

 

The beam was being zerg rushed by lots of dismounted infantry, armored vehicles, and gunships. Any Alliance Marine beaming themselves aboard the Citadel could potentially foil the Reapers plans, so the attacking force that was rapidly closing on the beam was the priority rather than the harmless frigate (it couldn't even scratch Harbinger's paint) that was busy evacuating wounded.

 

As for why the Reapers never disabled the beam...I've got nothing.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Don't use common sense or logic around here. You'll just be labeled 'nonsensical'.

 

Don't see how it's common sense or logical to not fire on the ship in front of you (while still firing at everyone else). 

 

This is nonsensical.

[von uber]

They could even have used the hammerhead thing dropped from the Normandy.
Or right from the start where they get dropped off by big ben; it's 1km to the beam.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Head canon reason?

 

The beam was being zerg rushed by lots of dismounted infantry, armored vehicles, and gunships. Any Alliance Marine beaming themselves aboard the Citadel could potentially foil the Reapers plans, so the attacking force that was rapidly closing on the beam was the priority rather than the harmless frigate (it couldn't even scratch Harbinger's paint) that was busy evacuating wounded.

 

As for why the Reapers never disabled the beam...I've got nothing.

 

During that scene though it seems like Harbinger stops firing all together. You can't hear it blasting in the background (or at least at the same rate) and when the Normandy finally takes off the camera focuses on Harbinger who can be seen not firing. Also given how rapidly it can shoot it wouldn't have been difficult to shoot down the Normandy, without breaking a sweat. err... oil drop. Heck, Harbinger wasn't even firing at full capacity because he was only using it's main beam and not it's GUARDIAN equivalent weapons.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

Or they could jump in from in space. Or just use the Ilos relay. Or anything. 

[JasonShepard]

Ah. This debate again.

Let's summarise the regular arguments:

 

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- Why can't the Reapers switch the beam off?

- Maybe it takes a while to switch the beam off? Maybe they never anticipated having to switch it off in a hurry?

- Okay... Why not just blow it up?

- Well, it does act like a miniature relay - that might blow up the Earth for all we know. Remember Arrival?

- Now you're just speculating.

- It's a video game! We all are!

 

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- Why doesn't Harby shoot Normandy?

- Stealth systems & Reaper IFF.

- Uh... The Normandy is right there. It's perfectly visible. Stealth systems wouldn't work since that's infrared light, and it's visibly not a Reaper.

- EDI's electronic countermeasures & jamming from the beam.

- Harbinger seems to be doing a perfectly good job shooting troops and vehicles, so the jamming from the beam doesn't seem to be bothering him. And do you really think EDI could jam a Reaper? Let alone the biggest, baddest Reaper in the fleet?

- Harbinger's got more important things to worry about. He needs to focus on the troops, not a ship that's actively evacuating troops.

- Yes... but blowing up the Normandy would trigger a fairly large explosion. Probably wiping out most of Hammer squad.

- The Normandy does have Silaris Armour and upgraded barriers. Harbinger would need a few shots. And in that time, some of Hammer might get through the beam.

- Really? You're arguing that Normandy could take a direct hit from Harbinger? The codex says that no ship has survived a direct hit from a Reaper main gun.

- They're in atmosphere. That would reduce his shot power.

- Nowhere in the codex does it say that atmospheric drag affects mass effect weaponry.

- Yes, but real world physics says that they can't be firing at relativistic speeds. Look at this. If they are, every shot ought to be a nuke.

- Oh, come on. We have no idea how mass effect weaponry would work in the real world. Don't use XKCD on me.

- Fine. In the opening, we see a cruiser (referred to as a dreadnought by Ash/Kaidan) taking multiple direct shots from a Reaper. If Reaper can ordinarily one-shot us, that implies the atmosphere does reduce weapon strength (somehow).

- You can sit and watch that cruiser get hit by as many Reaper shots as you like. Doesn't count.

- At minimum, running through that section, it still takes two shots.

- Ugh. Forget I asked...

 

- Actually, hang on. You said Harbinger needs to focus on Hammer squad or else some of them might get through. But we see him pause, not shooting anything, during the cutscene. Why doesn't he shoot the Normandy then?

- Maybe his guns are recharging? We see him take similar pauses during the charge just beforehand.

- We don't hear any blasts during the cutscene either.

- Eh. Artistic license. The focus of the scene is on the goodbye. Loud explosions etc would distract from the drama. Shepard is presumably just tuning them out.

- That's the best you've got?

- Yup.

 

***************************

 

- Why is only Harbinger present? What happened to the other Reapers we saw heading towards London? Heck, why not call in all those hundreds of Reapers in orbit?

- They're needed in orbit to defend against Sword and Shield Fleets.

- This is the Reapers we're talking about. I'm not sure that Sword and Shield has them under that much pressure.

- I wouldn't be so sure. We did spend an entire game assembling the biggest, most badass fleet ever.

- I'm sure they could spare a couple more ships. In fact, we saw them sparing a couple more ships.

- Maybe those Reapers were needed elsewhere in London?

- What could possibly be more important than defending the beam?!

- Crushing the London FOB to prevent a second push? The Reapers are arrogant, they figured Harbinger would be enough for the beam.

- If so, they were idiots.

 

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- Why not just nuke London from orbit? It's the only way to be sure...

- See my earlier argument that blowing up the beam might blow up the Earth.

- I didn't like that argument the first time.

 

***************************

 

- Okay, why doesn't Harbinger just shoot Shepard? Sure, maybe shooting Normandy would take more than one blast to get through the atmosphere/ shields/ armour/ whatever. But Shepard is just standing there. Wouldn't take more than a second.

- Still focusing on Hammer? We did throw a lot of troops at that beam. Besides, Harbinger does shoot Shepard.

- And epically fails to kill him, leaving it up to Marauder Shields and the three Husketeers.

- Well, on Insanity, Marauder Shields kills me more often than he doesn't...

- NOT THE POINT!

-  Fine. Yes, Harbinger should have melted Shepard's body into the ground, but he doesn't. Clearly he's never read the Evil Overlord List.

- (Disappears for a couple of hours because that link leads to TV Tropes.)

 

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At the end of the day, it's a fictional universe where nothing will ever be fully explained. It's impossible to prove that there's no possible explanation.

 

I'm personally willing to assume that there are in-universe explanations for why stuff happens, we just never see the explanations ourselves. However, I can understand why that scene might break a person's Willing Suspension of Disbelief. Perhaps Bioware should have thought the scene through a bit more, but nothing's ever going to be perfect.

[Killdren88]

I ask why not just land troops behind Harbinger? If there was nothing behind him other than Magruder Shields and the Three Hucketeers over taking the rear would be no problem. Plus the time it would take Harbinger to turn around and deal with the rear assault the front would have gotten people through.