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[Staff Cdr Alenko]

I know what you mean, I really do. But you people (yes, a you people again) always come in here, dissecting scenes like you're a big time movie director and then declaring a multitude of things, like bad writing, bad thematics, etc, etc, etc. Like there's some universal truth in there that Bioware should've adhered to.

 

But there isn't. What's nonsensical to you might be completely logical to others.

 

And some just don't care. I, for instance, don't give a damn about the Normandy pick up scene. It even provides the most awesome scene in the entire game.

 

All in all, my problem here is that you people act as if it's absolutely undisputable that a scene is bad. It isn't.

 

For those who wonder, my favourite scene of the game:

[video snip]

 

Are you trying to forbid others to express their opinions? Never mind, don't answer that. You may not care about the nonsense, and that's fine, but other people do. Maybe cheap poorly done drama just for the sake of drama is your thing. But it isn't mine.

[Farangbaa]

Are you trying to forbid others to express their opinions? Never mind, don't answer that. You may not care about the nonsense, and that's fine, but other people do. Maybe cheap poorly done drama just for the sake of drama is your thing. But it isn't mine.

 

No I am not. Read my post again.

 

I would be absolutely fine with people saying they dislike a scene, a character or whatever. But that's not what's happening here.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

No I am not. Read my post again.

 

I would be absolutely fine with people saying they dislike a scene, a character or whatever. But that's not what's happening here.

 

Are you saying we can't deconstruct the scene for its executional and conceptual failures? And we can't criticize the people who made it?

[Iakus]

I know what you mean, I really do. But you people (yes, a you people again) always come in here, dissecting scenes like you're a big time movie director and then declaring a multitude of things, like bad writing, bad thematics, etc, etc, etc. Like there's some universal truth in there that Bioware should've adhered to.

 

But there isn't. What's nonsensical to you might be completely logical to others.

 

And some just don't care. I, for instance, don't give a damn about the Normandy pick up scene. It even provides the most awesome scene in the entire game.

 

All in all, my problem here is that you people act as if it's absolutely undisputable that a scene is bad. It isn't.

 

You make it sound like we're nitpicking here, when there's a frakking frigate in the middle of Harbinger's kill zone!  THis is not a minor detail.  This is the scene itself.

 

The "universal truth" that should be adhered to is common freaking sense!  If it doesn't make sense on a technical or thematic level, it is, yes, "bad writing"

 

I'd really like to meet the person who thought that scene who thinks that scene is logical.  or maybe I don't

 

And hey, if you don't care about your stories making sense, and just wanna hit the awsome buttons, watch the awesome cinematics, and not worry about things making sense, that's great.  You're entertained.  In a way, I wish I could be more like you.

 

Sadly, Bioware used to be a lot better than this.  And their past works have spoiled me.

[Staff Cdr Alenko]

(...)

 

And hey, if you don't care about your stories making sense, and just wanna hit the awsome buttons, watch the awesome cinematics, and not worry about things making sense, that's great.  You're entertained.  In a way, I wish I could be more like you.

 

Sadly, Bioware used to be a lot better than this.  And their past works have spoiled me.

 

It's like with prog rock. ME1 is early Genesis - I'm thinking Trespass, Foxtrott, Selling England by the Pound. Proper masterpieces. ME2 was Trick of the Tail - different, but still incredibly brilliant.

 

Then we come to ME3. That wasn't Genesis at all. It wasn't even prog rock. It was pop. And a bad-to-mediocre one at that.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

I guess we are focusing on the wrong things. Drama is important in a story and I think it's fine if the plot takes some leeway to allow for a good dramatic moment, although ideally preserving both would be the best. Ultimately, the pickup scene isn't awful because of this and this inconsistency; it's bad because it completely breaks the tone and dissolves the tension of the story that came before it. The main point of the final mission was that it was the final push, a point of no return which was hammered in by every speech. Even at the end, when confronted with the biggest, baddest Reaper around everyone decides to face the machine on foot. But when two people who happen to be close to The Shepard the game world has to stop (even if one of them happens to be a remote controlled platform) so Shepard could say good bye one last time. It's a tone breaking, it's a non-sensical, and it may even be inappropriate. The fact that it's built on so many implausibilities just makes it worse. I think why people like to talk about the technical aspects of it though is because those are much more objective than things like tone.

 

Compare this scene though to something like the end of the Genophage arc on Tuchunka. This scene is filled with retcons like the introduction of the previously non-existent shroud towers, some goofy space worms; and the notion that a genetic modification that took years of research, discussion, many covert drops; and an extensive network of ships, operatives, and goodness knows how much money could be cured at the push of a button. Yet, no one really complains about this scene with Mordin. It's because it's a good scene, it's the accumulation of a long running arc. And while on the technical side it didn't build off what came before it, the scene manages to effectively amplify and build off of everything that came before it -- instead of applying the breaks to it.

I'll cover the Shroud below since its its own point.

 

But with the Genophage cure, there was years of work put into it. Maelon does most of the work himself and had actually started to reach the point of getting a viable cure. This was going on still on Surkesh, meaning it was getting some severely serious devotion while the scientists there were trying to save the females that were cured via Maelon's work alone. All Mordin did once he personally started working on it from the point of view of the player, is deal with the side effects so that the cure would actually be a real cure instead of a possible death sentence for an already dying race.

 

That's what I meant. The Shroud wasn't a tower back then, it was a big metal (several?) object in space.

We didnt know what the Shroud was back in ME2. All we know is that it was responsible for there being habitable portions of the planet to live on in the first place. I personally thought it was a Satellite network in orbit over the planet that worked through Space Magic to do what it did (Think like the mine network around that one planet in Teen Titans when they went off world to help the racist dude)

[Staff Cdr Alenko]

I'll cover the Shroud below since its its own point.

 

But with the Genophage cure, there was years of work put into it. Maelon does most of the work himself and had actually started to reach the point of getting a viable cure. This was going on still on Surkesh, meaning it was getting some severely serious devotion while the scientists there were trying to save the females that were cured via Maelon's work alone. All Mordin did once he personally started working on it from the point of view of the player, is deal with the side effects so that the cure would actually be a real cure instead of a possible death sentence for an already dying race.

 

We didnt know what the Shroud was back in ME2. All we know is that it was responsible for there being habitable portions of the planet to live on in the first place. I personally thought it was a Satellite network in orbit over the planet that worked through Space Magic to do what it did (Think like the mine network around that one planet in Teen Titans when they went off world to help the racist dude)

 

I think what Imaginary meant was about the application/distribution of the cure, not getting it in the first place.

 

As for the Shroud, we did know it was located at the L1 Lagrange point, which means it was in space. I don't remember how was the tower being linked with the Shroud explained, to be honest. Unless the tower turned out to be the Shroud, which would be an inconsistency. Like I said, I don't remember what "ME3" said about that.

[ImaginaryMatter]

I think what Imaginary meant was about the application/distribution of the cure, not getting it in the first place.

 

As for the Shroud, we did know it was located at the L1 Lagrange point, which means it was in space. I don't remember how was the tower being linked with the Shroud explained, to be honest. Unless the tower turned out to be the Shroud, which would be an inconsistency. Like I said, I don't remember what "ME3" said about that.

 

Ya, that's what I meant. The way it was described in the past games the genopahge wasn't launched with a single button push. It sounded like it took a long time and many people to make covert genophage drops into Krogan population areas, something that would only affect the local area requiring several distributions.

 

As for the Shroud, I don't think the tower version existed until ME3. It only comes up in the ME3 Codex. Before the Shroud was the satellite in space and most Krogan lived in underground bunkers regardless, which I believe also got dropped in the ME3 Codex.

 

We didnt know what the Shroud was back in ME2. All we know is that it was responsible for there being habitable portions of the planet to live on in the first place. I personally thought it was a Satellite network in orbit over the planet that worked through Space Magic to do what it did (Think like the mine network around that one planet in Teen Titans when they went off world to help the racist dude)

 

The Shroud was explained on the Tuchunka planet description. You can also see it, if you look up at the sun while on the planet back in ME2 which was a nice bit of consistency.