167 réponses à ce sujet

[Vortex13]

Just like the title of the topic says, are we going to see aliens like the Hanar and Elcor take a more prominent role in future Mass Effect games, or are they going to remain the joke races of the setting? 

 

I know that most people see the Asari, or Turians as more popular, but why should the setting of ME; like Star Trek, and Star Wars; be dominated by the age-old troupe of: "Aliens as just humans with rubber masks on"?

 

Why can't the non-humanoid aliens take a more active role in the games as squad mates, serious NPCs, antagonists, or even playable characters?

 

Why does companion character's most defining quality have to be how 'compatible' (see the numerous LI discussions) they are with our human, or near-human PC?

 

Can we expect to see these alien species shown in a different light other then making fun of how different they are from us 'normals'? The Hanars' degradation into Blasto, or the Elcors' insistent "Badassfully" lines reduced all of their unique aspects into a running gag in ME3.

 

Forget that the Hanar, unlike the Asari, were upfront with Prothean or "Enkindler" activity on their home world, or the fact that they rescued the Drell from their dying world, and it was they who trained the Drell as assassins, or that a Hanar very nearly strangled Zaeed. No, they are just big, stupid jellyfish that cowardly hide behind their planetary defenses, and clumsily float around being useless.

 

The Elcor have bodies of tough, corded muscle, (strong enough to carry a Mass Effect equivalent to tank cannons into battle) due to their high gravity home world. They have a wide array of emotions and means of communication; in fact they have to slow down and specify their intent when dealing with non-Elcor, because we are unable to see the subtle nature of their body language. But no, the Elcor are the big dumb sloths of the Mass Effect setting; the Elcor aren't speaking that way for our benefit, they are just stupid aliens who talk funny.  

 

TL;DR: I would much rather see a serious take on an Elcor, or Hanar companion character then I would want to see another human, asari, turian, quarian, or krogan with 'daddy issues'.

[General TSAR]

Instead of having them as companions, have them as foes (much easier to implement I bet).

 

Have Elcor serve as walking tanks for some mercenary gangs or be bosses like the YMIRs.

 

I don't know how Hanar would work, maybe have your character trapped in an undersea facility that's taking on water with a pissed off Hanar trying to strangle you or something.

[KaiserShep]

I don't think any of these species would work as actual companion characters, but I agree that I'd like to see more serious characters come out of these species.

[cap and gown]

The simple answer is no. Why? Motion capture. Unless you personally spring for the money it would take to animate them, its not going to happen.

[Vortex13]

The simple answer is no. Why? Motion capture. Unless you personally spring for the money it would take to animate them, its not going to happen.

 

The way I see it, if we can see fully animated Rachni in Mass Effect, then we should be able to see Hanar and Elcor animations.

 

Plus walking animations for the Elcor are already in the game, and if BioWare wanted to go bare bones, they could simply have them as organic counterparts to the Ravengers in combat; though I would hope to see more animations.

[Barkbiten]

I agree and would love to have more Elcor, Hanar and/or Volus to talk to and were taken seriously. Maybe not squadmates but at least interesting characters in the "gameworld". Altough I wouldn't mind to have a "squadmate" like Joker or EDI in Mass Effect 2 or the Normandy Requisitions Officer from Mass effect.

[Vortex13]

Instead of having them as companions, have them as foes (much easier to implement I bet).

 

Have Elcor serve as walking tanks for some mercenary gangs or be bosses like the YMIRs.

 

I don't know how Hanar would work, maybe have your character trapped in an undersea facility that's taking on water with a pissed off Hanar trying to strangle you or something.

 

 

Having a Hanar or Elcor as companions could work, it would just be harder then the typical companions BioWare gives us. Still, I feel that exploring the non-human(oid) side of life in the galaxy would go a long way in creating memorable characters as well as playing up to the whole "Stanger in a strange land." theme BioWare has going for the upcoming title.

 

P.S. I think that an Elcor could give even a Krogan or Yharg a run for their money in melee combat. The Elcor would have pretty sizable muscle mass due to their high gravity development, but their quadruped form would undoubtedly give them an advantage in maintaining their footing. Plus I would imagine that Elcor are quite capable of bursts of speed versus their standard movement.

[SwobyJ]

I highly hope so, OP.

[bayofangels]

I'm sure they won't be written out completely but they're never going to be huge focuses. Same with volus, vorcha etc.

 

Asari, turian, krogan - these are the main races I'm expecting will continue to be a big deal, along with the new races.

[Vortex13]

I'm sure they won't be written out completely but they're never going to be huge focuses. Same with volus, vorcha etc.

 

Asari, turian, krogan - these are the main races I'm expecting will continue to be a big deal, along with the new races.

 

Which would be a waste (IMO).

 

The Asari, Turians, and Krogan are interesting, but in all reality, their depiction in the game is just a rubber masked human. I suppose that the ability to easily identify with them helps make the choices you have to make have more impact (the Genophage). But the fact that humans or human like aliens should be the only ones with ample screen time seems very one sided, and compared to other popular science fiction settings, something that has been done again and again.

 

I mean did anyone else notice that the aliens of the setting that were not direct human analogues where either:

 

• 'Humanized'; the Geth and their desire to become individual intelligences.

 

• Given less and less screen time and only referred to in off screen remarks; the Rachni and their actions occurring almost entirely off camera.

 

• Or failing that, mocked and turned into a running gag of the series; the Hanar devolving into Blasto, and the Elcor and their means of communication and slow movement, being equated to lumbering idiots?

 

I get that aliens as rubber masked humans is easier to do, but by the end of the trilogy all of the 'alien' aliens were either swept under the rug, made like us, or mocked. If such elements were used in a story about the real world, such elements could very easily be seen as racist and xenophobic.

[Bacus]

Talking by personal experience here (i write Lore for my video games):

 

Thing with having non-so-human-like entities can alienate consumers.People tend to relate with characters, specially in games so focused on story telling such as Mass Effect. If i cannot relate with that character it's because maybe we find it on a subconscious level creepy/threatening and what not. That's why we tend to have aliens so anthropomorphic in shape. 

 

Beyond that, i think people are starting to let go a little bit and are more opened to the idea of really hideous aliens, truly foreign not just in looks but in culture, and ideologies. But at the same time we cannot go too far because we are going to have something no one considers relatable.

 

My point of view? i would find it interesting, but I consider the Elcor and the Hanar to have been produce under duress and the race as such lacks charm/sense.

[Vortex13]

Talking by personal experience here (i write Lore for my video games):

 

Thing with having non-so-human-like entities can alienate consumers.People tend to relate with characters, specially in games so focused on story telling such as Mass Effect. If i cannot relate with that character it's because maybe we find it on a subconscious level creepy/threatening and what not. That's why we tend to have aliens so anthropomorphic in shape. 

 

Beyond that, i think people are starting to let go a little bit and are more opened to the idea of really hideous aliens, truly foreign not just in looks but in culture, and ideologies. But at the same time we cannot go too far because we are going to have something no one considers relatable.

 

My point of view? i would find it interesting, but I consider the Elcor and the Hanar to have been produce under duress and the race as such lacks charm/sense.

 

Maybe I'm in the minority of science fiction fans, but I always gravitate more towards the non-human aliens; in terms of appearance, culture, ideologies etc. It's a pet peeve of mine I guess, but the overwhelming presentation of 'alien' aliens; especially in mainstream media; as evil monsters to kill, lesser lifeforms that don't conform to our human perceptions and culture, or just mentioned in passing and then completely ignored grates on me. Apparently, unless something is pretty and we can have a potential LI with it; all non-human elements are doomed to be the villains, or the jesters of the setting.

 

In regards to you last point, okay maybe the Elcor and Hanar wouldn't make the cut for a fully realized companion, but what about a Rachni? They are quite capable in combat, they have an alien culture/hive mind, and most obviously, appearance-wise they are giant space bugs. I would love to see a Rachni companion either in the form of a young queen, or a royal drone that the queen speaks through. At best, we can have a truly unique companion that can offer a decidedly 'alien' insight and outlook on the galaxy, and at worst we have an organic version of the ME 2 Geth; which is not bad either since that is when the Geth were the most interesting (IMO).

[Beerfish]

[Bacus]

Maybe I'm in the minority of science fiction fans, but I always gravitate more towards the non-human aliens; in terms of appearance, culture, ideologies etc. It's a pet peeve of mine I guess, but the overwhelming presentation of 'alien' aliens; especially in mainstream media; as evil monsters to kill, lesser lifeforms that don't conform to our human perceptions and culture, or just mentioned in passing and then completely ignored grates on me. Apparently, unless something is pretty and we can have a potential LI with it; all non-human elements are doomed to be the villains, or the jesters of the setting.

 

In regards to you last point, okay maybe the Elcor and Hanar wouldn't make the cut for a fully realized companion, but what about a Rachni? They are quite capable in combat, they have an alien culture/hive mind, and most obviously, appearance-wise they are giant space bugs. I would love to see a Rachni companion either in the form of a young queen, or a royal drone that the queen speaks through. At best, we can have a truly unique companion that can offer a decidedly 'alien' insight and outlook on the galaxy, and at worst we have an organic version of the ME 2 Geth; which is not bad either since that is when the Geth were the most interesting (IMO).

 

Well my dear Vortex, i am with you 100% of the way. I was just stating why i think we don't have too many real aliens

 

I'd love to see a more alien race. Alien as in "i have no clue what he means/wants!"

[Rusty Sandusky]

Would've rather had this instead of Brutes

[cap and gown]

 

I'd love to see a more alien race. Alien as in "i have no clue what he means/wants!"

 

What would be the point? Just write gibberish and call it literature, I guess.

 

We will NEVER have REAL aliens because the stories are written by HUMANS and meant to address HUMAN concerns. I don't care how ugly or different you make them look, or what ideology they espouse, they will always be something dreamed up by HUMANS and therefore NOT ALIENS.

[Vortex13]

What would be the point? Just write gibberish and call it literature, I guess.

 

We will NEVER have REAL aliens because the stories are written by HUMANS and meant to address HUMAN concerns. I don't care how ugly or different you make them look, or what ideology they espouse, they will always be something dreamed up by HUMANS and therefore NOT ALIENS.

 

 

That is very true, and I wholeheartedly agree that humans will never be able to create something that is truly alien, truly unknown.

 

That being said, I don't think that writers should stop trying to create 'alien' aliens, even if in just in certain aspects. The Hanar, Elcor, Rachni, ME 2 Geth, all of these races; while not completely foreign to human comprehension; are different enough to warrant an 'alien' descriptor (IMO), at least when compared to the Asari, Salarians, Turians, Krogan, Quarians, etc.

 

All these races need is just a little more elaboration; and a serious approach to the narrative; and they will easily present an element in the setting that doesn't have a direct human analogue. By presenting a culture, or ideology vastly different from human norms (even if still identifiable by humans) would go a long way to breaking the age old trope of "aliens as rubber masked humans". The Rachni's Hive Mind, the Elcor's subtle dispositions and methodical nature, or the Hanar's duality in their public and private natures, any of these basic elements can be expanded on to further distinguish themselves as different, as alien.

 

It is important to remember though, that in creating 'alien' aliens, that BioWare doesn't fall into another troupe of science fiction; the presentation of the aliens' culture, ideology, etc. as "incorrect", or that their way of living is not "right" compared to us humans. The Geth have already fallen into this category; I hope that any future attempts at portraying an 'alien' race does not need to become like us, in order to be correct.

[Sanunes]

The problem is that I don't think they would work as companions for their design and even some of the lore around them don't seem to lend to a combat style character. The other concern I could see is they might have to reduce something else to fit in a skeletal model for those races and would have to cut back in other areas such as they might need to remove another race for a companion that has a unique model or a different asset that is used in the game.  The problem is with a game like Mass Effect there is no way they can please everyone for if they add something to the game they probably will get a comment along the lines of "you added x, why not add what I find interesting" or "why did you add x, you sacrificed too much" which is something I saw frequently with the multiplayer aspects of Mass Effect 3.

[Farangbaa]

And what do you suppose those Elcor and Hanar should do?

 

Elcor move at the speed of snails, Hanar can barely hold a gun. 

 

At best, you'd get to play missions without your main character and team full of Elcor on a high-gravity world, because that's the only place they would be better than any other species, being useless in all other environments. And for the Hanar, you'd get an underwater mission... again, with just Hanar, as other species would be useless in such an environment, and Hanar are useless in all others.

 

About the Alien discussion (real alien or human alien):

The Rachni and Thorian are truely alien.

[SwobyJ]

Elcor artillery. Slower, more powerful. More about Combat.

Hanar agent. Faster, and do they have Biotics?

 

This would require the combat system allow greater independence away from cover shooting and gunplay (though both still happen). More about access to and manipulation of a battlefield instead of a corridor.

[Pirate Queen Isabela]

Who drew this? It looks incredible.   Love the combination, would have loved to see this incorporated in the game, but alas. 
 
I still would have loved a Batarian or Volus squadmate. Bioware didn't put enough effort in writing most of the other races, giving them all one or two traits and barely expanding on that.

[Farangbaa]

Hanar agent. Faster, and do they have Biotics?

 

Only when they're on the same stuff as Niftu Call

 

You do know Hanar move outside of the water by the grace of mass effect field generators, right? Just imagine how easy it is to turn them from semi-flying jelly fish into jelly pudding. Hanar are only good in the water.

 

An Elcor squadmate would require you to walk the entire game... and still wait up every now and then. And... no one's waiting to hear this:

 

"Anxiously, enemies on our left." 

"Agonizing, I have been shot"

"Gasping, I'm dying"

"Panicking, I need medigel"

 

That's fun for 2 minutes and then you wanna kill him yourself.

[Vortex13]

And what do you suppose those Elcor and Hanar should do?

 

Elcor move at the speed of snails, Hanar can barely hold a gun. 

 

At best, you'd get to play missions without your main character and team full of Elcor on a high-gravity world, because that's the only place they would be better than any other species, being useless in all other environments. And for the Hanar, you'd get an underwater mission... again, with just Hanar, as other species would be useless in such an environment, and Hanar are useless in all others.

 

About the Alien discussion (real alien or human alien):

The Rachni and Thorian are truely alien.

 

You do know Hanar move outside of the water by the grace of mass effect field generators, right? Just imagine how easy it is to turn them from semi-flying jelly fish into jelly pudding. Hanar are only good in the water.

 

An Elcor squadmate would require you to walk the entire game... and still wait up every now and then. And... no one's waiting to hear this:

 

"Anxiously, enemies on our left." 

"Agonizing, I have been shot"

"Gasping, I'm dying"

"Panicking, I need medigel"

 

That's fun for 2 minutes and then you wanna kill him yourself.

 

 

 

 

Just because we only see the Elcor walking in ME 1 - 3 doesn't mean that they are incapable of running, or maintaining shorts bursts of speed. We don't see Salarians eat anything in the games either, but that doesn't mean that they don't require food.

 

Also, just because an Elcor is adapted to living on planets with 5 times the Earth's gravity doesn't make them useless in 1G environments. Indeed, I would image that the muscles and dense bone structure that allows the Elcor to thrive on high gravity worlds would allow them to easily carry heavy weapons into battle; the lore equates their weapons to tank cannons; or if one so choses, rip a human (or human sized alien) in half with their bare hands. Plus, their quadrupedal form would give them excellent stability in both ranged and melee combat.

 

As far as communication goes, remember that the Elcor state their emotions to non Elcor in social/diplomatic settings for the benefit of non-Elcor. Why would the Elcor waste valuable time in combat stating how they feel about the situation? They wouldn't. An Elcor's squad mates don't need to know that the Elcor is nervous, or angry when calling out enemies moving to flank them. Nor would the Elcor need to indicate that he is experiencing intense pain if he is injured. A monotone declaration of "Enemies flanking left." or "I am hit." is more than enough to convey battlefield situations.  And its not like having a character speak in monotone during a battle is anything new; Legion and the Geth have a monotone declaration as well.

 

 

 

Regarding the Hanar, we only have Blasto; a character created solely as a joke; as an example of a Hanar wielding a gun, and even then a weapon not designed for Hanar ergonomics to boot. Who's to say that Hanar don't have weapons that are designed for their physiology, guns that Shepard would barley be able to hold?  Let's not forget that it was the Hanar that trained the Drell as assassins (as well as rescued the Drell from their dying home world) they must obviously have means of interacting with non-Hanar in a violent matter, otherwise how could they have trained the Drell? 

 

Also consider Zaeed; a veteran mercenary; mentions that he was almost strangled by a Hanar, so its defiantly possible for a Hanar, even without weapons, and out of their native environment to present a threat to other species. 

 

 

 

 

Even if we discount the Elcor and Hanar as combat capable (they aren't IMO) you still have the Rachni as a perfect example of an 'alien' squad mate; this of corse being dependent on whether the player spared the Queen or not. We have ample evidence of their combat capabilities, from the first game, as well as accounts given about the Rachni War, so its not like having a Rachni attack something is something we haven't seen before.

 

Out of combat we have their unique Hive mentality, and general insect or 'one of many' way of looking at things so a Rachni companion would be able to offer more then just combat assistance. Have such a companion be a young Queen, or scout drone with a high level of sentience, and you have the beginnings of a truly unique character, one that breaks the conventions of "Rubber masked human".

[Vortex13]

Who drew this? It looks incredible.   Love the combination, would have loved to see this incorporated in the game, but alas. 
 
I still would have loved a Batarian or Volus squadmate. Bioware didn't put enough effort in writing most of the other races, giving them all one or two traits and barely expanding on that.

 

Same here. In fact I always though that Zaeed should have been a Batarian instead of a Human; its not like his backstory or character would have changed. Plus it would have given us more alien squad mates instead of another human.