167 réponses à ce sujet

[FaWa]

They don't have to be squadmates, but maybe having them play a role outside of comedy would be nice.

[Vortex13]

I agree it would be great to see these races have a bigger role in future titles but as squad mates? I don't think it'll work since in the lore they are clearly dependent on automated systems and the turian's for their protection and their armed forces are very small and are more of a support role.

 

 

I personally don't feel that a species' dependency on automated systems or technology should exclude them from being a squad mate/MP option. I mean if we are going to fault an Elcor's use of VI assisted targeting, or a Hanar's use of mass effect fields, or a Volus' pressure suit, or the Rachni's general lack of technology then we really should never had had Quarians or Geth as squad mates/mp characters either.

 

Now it is true that each of these species (with the potential exception of the Rachni) don't really have the military might of the Turian or Human Alliance forces, but that has never stopped BioWare from exploring characters that normally aren't associated with frontline combat, or are more support oriented before.

 

For example, consider that an Elcor, with 'regular' military gear; as in standard equipment for Elcor military personal; would be roughly on par with an Altus mech-suit or Ymir droid in terms of both defensive and offensive capabilities. Sure, the Elcor might not have the numbers of the human military would, but the fact that humans have to build armored robots or robotic exo-suits to have the same capabilities as the common Elcor foot soldier should at least mean something when considering the non-humanoid/non-standard species as squad mates/MP characters. 

 

 

There are also technical reason's why it won't happen such as the animation involved being too time consuming.

 

The technical issues with non-humanoid animations would be a hurdle granted, but then again the ME team is not building everything from scratch and/or working in a vacuum. There has been a steady build up of features that build off of existing ones, and with the EA developers each using the Frostbite 3 engine, this building block method is not just limited to BioWare's innovations. The universality of the game engine means that the ME team can quite literally take a feature running on one of the DA team's or Battlefield team's computers and plop it down on one of their's and it will work.

 

Plus there is this podcast where the DAMP devs talked about wanting to add Werewolves and Golems as playable options to the DA:I MP mode. Now these are (roughly) humanoid, but they are creatures that don't use weapons and armor in the traditional sense. And who's to say that later on in the DLC cycle we won't see playable Mabari war hounds?

 

If we can see DAMP release DLC characters that are completely different mechanic-wise as from the standard avatars we have come to expect, and if the ME team can build off of that foundation, then the possibility of playable Rachni or Elcor doesn't seem so far fetched after all.

[Phalanx]

What is to stop an Elcor being relatively quick and adoptable on the battlefield (never-mind strong)? After-all, they aren't on their home planet any-more so they aren't having to constantly fight the powerful gravity and a simple stumble is no longer life threatening. Sure they may remain cautious and "slow" much much of that has to be cultural & due to their native environment. It should be perfectly possible to train an Elcor to make use off their immense strength to be a fast (if not adgile) and powerful warrior on a world with lower gravity.

[Vortex13]

What is to stop an Elcor being relatively quick and adoptable on the battlefield (never-mind strong)? After-all, they aren't on their home planet any-more so they aren't having to constantly fight the powerful gravity and a simple stumble is no longer life threatening. Sure they may remain cautious and "slow" much much of that has to be cultural & due to their native environment. It should be perfectly possible to train an Elcor to make use off their immense strength to be a fast (if not adgile) and powerful warrior on a world with lower gravity.

 

 

Exactly. 

 

I don't expect to see Elcor cross-country sprinters, but one being able to keep pace with a walking human should not be an issue.

[The Twilight God]

Both Hanar and Elcor would look weird running. One would have to gallop like a horse or something and the other would be loose mass of flying spaghetti. The lack of facial and body expression would also limit their appeal. Elcor taking cover? LOL!! Elcor using standard weapons as a four legged runner? No.

[Vortex13]

Why would an Elcor, Hanar, or Rachni need to take cover or use the same weapons that all the humanoid aliens wield?

 

You are right in saying that they would not; the commonalities of the other bipedal races wouldn't apply here; but that is not a bad thing. I would go so far as to say that having completely asymmetrical balance in terms of weapon and armor usage as well as gameplay mechanics for races like the Elcor, Hanar, and Rachni would be a good thing. At the very least it would be a refreshing way to play the game instead of being a re-skined human with one or two slightly different powers.

 

The use of completely unique characters; with their own separate inventory, weapons, armor, and gameplay is nothing new, one needs to look no farther than DA:O with Shale and the Dog having completely different assets/armor/etc. exclusive to them.

 

 

As far as facial and body expression is concerned, yes there would be a (slight) disconnect there, but that would be the whole point wouldn't it? To expose the player to the truly alien things in the galaxy; in appearance at least if nothing else? Besides, if we are talking about playable Rachni, Elcor and Hanar in MP, then expression would be a non-issue; one doesn't need to see a character's face to play that, as evidenced by all the human kits wearing helmets.

[Drone223]

I personally don't feel that a species' dependency on automated systems or technology should exclude them from being a squad mate/MP option. I mean if we are going to fault an Elcor's use of VI assisted targeting, or a Hanar's use of mass effect fields, or a Volus' pressure suit, or the Rachni's general lack of technology then we really should never had had Quarians or Geth as squad mates/mp characters either.

 

Now it is true that each of these species (with the potential exception of the Rachni) don't really have the military might of the Turian or Human Alliance forces, but that has never stopped BioWare from exploring characters that normally aren't associated with frontline combat, or are more support oriented before.

 

For example, consider that an Elcor, with 'regular' military gear; as in standard equipment for Elcor military personal; would be roughly on par with an Altus mech-suit or Ymir droid in terms of both defensive and offensive capabilities. Sure, the Elcor might not have the numbers of the human military would, but the fact that humans have to build armored robots or robotic exo-suits to have the same capabilities as the common Elcor foot soldier should at least mean something when considering the non-humanoid/non-standard species as squad mates/MP characters. 

Problem is the elcor aren't meant for the front lines but are more of a support role (its stated in the codex), and elcor move very slowly which would make them a liability in mission's which have to be done in a short amount of time. Working in hazadous environments is also going to be a problem because if something were to happen to their combats systems they aren't going to last very long. In general will elcor are probably suited for certain combat situations which would limit their usage, squadmates that can be used in any situation are much better than ones that only have small number of them.

[Terca]

Problem is the elcor aren't meant for the front lines but are more of a support role (its stated in the codex), and elcor move very slowly which would make them a liability in mission's which have to be done in a short amount of time. Working in hazadous environments is also going to be a problem because if something were to happen to their combats systems they aren't going to last very long. In general will elcor are probably suited for certain combat situations which would limit their usage, squadmates that can be used in any situation are much better than ones that only have small number of them.

They could become the new Geth Juggernaut without the vampire laser-chains. Slow moving, hard hitting, huge area to get shot. Potential for the character to be much beefier defense-wise than even a Krogan...

[KaiserShep]

I want elcor enemies. I can imagine taking down living walker tanks.

[Drone223]

They could become the new Geth Juggernaut without the vampire laser-chains. Slow moving, hard hitting, huge area to get shot. Potential for the character to be much beefier defense-wise than even a Krogan...

But Geth juggernauts didn't have the disadvantages of being an elcor and there are better alternatives of a tank character than an elcor.

[Vazgen]

I want a space cow companion!

[Qwib Qwib]

To this day I dream of a Pyjak squad-mate. It comes back from the days of yore in the original Mass Effect. When I saw them walking around,doing nothing at all, I just thought to myself: ''Imagine the potential...''

[Terca]

But Geth juggernauts didn't have the disadvantages of being an elcor and there are better alternatives of a tank character than an elcor.

 

Oh I know. The GJ would be a much better choice for a juggernaut role should it appear, but it could very well be possible that MEN doesn't have Geth available. Should it not, though something like a Krogan can carry large amounts of armour into battle, an Elcor can carry much more. As effective in speed? Not at all. Potentially unnecessarily unmoveable? Indeed.

[Vortex13]

I am still unconvinced that an Elcor's one and only movement speed is "Molasses in Antarctica" slow. It may be something uncomfortable to them, maybe even something that can have long term health risks, but I don't believe that moving quickly, or even sprinting over a short distance would be impossible. I know that the codex states that the Elcor are incapable of moving quickly, but incapable ≠ impossible (IMO). I mean humans are incapable of surviving underwater; without technological assistance; but that doesn't stop us from diving under the waves for (up to) minutes at a time.

 

If the Elcor had truly evolved in such a way to make it physically impossible to overexert themselves then they should have looked like giant amorphous blobs, as that is the most efficient method of surviving a fall on a high gravity world. The Elcor's long limbs and muscular forms are not conductive to that sort of development. Why would they evolve in such a way as to put their vital organs further off the ground in an environment where a fall can be fatal? Most likely because they needed the extra mobility to gather food and escape from predators.

 

 

Besides in all three ME titles Shepard and Co. have never had to flat out sprint for 5 consecutive minutes. Any running that was done was to move from cover to cover, and that wouldn't really be an issue if Shepard could tank the damage being thrown his/her way; like an Elcor could. Also any areas that would require a long jaunt across an open valley conveniently supplied the player with a means of transportation (i.e. the Mako) and if said transport could lug a fully armed and armored Krogan Warlord around; or a twelve foot tall robotic weapons platform; I don't think it should have any problem with an Elcor passenger. 

 

 

But Geth juggernauts didn't have the disadvantages of being an elcor and there are better alternatives of a tank character than an elcor.

 

I don't see any advantages that the Geth Juggernauts would have over Elcor: Both are slow. Both are large targets that can't take cover. Both have very high health and shield pools. Etc.

 

The only difference I could see would be that the Juggernaut would be more of a defensive cleric; boosting the power of nearby teammates; whereas an Elcor would be more an artillery piece, which is fine since the two different characters would cover different roles on the battlefield. 

 

Another difference to consider is the Elcor's melee prowess. Sure they may be slow compared to other species in the galaxy, but I have no doubt that they could easily rip a human sized foe in half if given the motivation to do so. Their dense bone structure and muscles built for operating in a 5G environment would probably give even a Krogan a run for their money in melee combat.

[Drone223]

@Vortex13: You're putting too much faith in elcor's physiology, elcor move slowly on purpose because they evolved on a high gravity environment and if they trip if can be fatal since the mass of their bodies will crush their respiratory system, add armor and tech to their body mass and they'll die even faster. Also elcor aren't bipedal and a bipedal animal can travel longer distances more efficiently. There is also the issue of getting to areas that require climbing walls, crawling through small spaces etc. so an elcor squad mate isn't really practical if your going to doing that a lot.

[The Twilight God]

Why would an Elcor, Hanar, or Rachni need to take cover or use the same weapons that all the humanoid aliens wield?
 
You are right in saying that they would not; the commonalities of the other bipedal races wouldn't apply here; but that is not a bad thing. I would go so far as to say that having completely asymmetrical balance in terms of weapon and armor usage as well as gameplay mechanics for races like the Elcor, Hanar, and Rachni would be a good thing. At the very least it would be a refreshing way to play the game instead of being a re-skined human with one or two slightly different powers.
 
The use of completely unique characters; with their own separate inventory, weapons, armor, and gameplay is nothing new, one needs to look no farther than DA:O with Shale and the Dog having completely different assets/armor/etc. exclusive to them.
 
 
As far as facial and body expression is concerned, yes there would be a (slight) disconnect there, but that would be the whole point wouldn't it? To expose the player to the truly alien things in the galaxy; in appearance at least if nothing else? Besides, if we are talking about playable Rachni, Elcor and Hanar in MP, then expression would be a non-issue; one doesn't need to see a character's face to play that, as evidenced by all the human kits wearing helmets.

If they can't take cover they get shot repeatedly and die.

If they don't use the same weapons they need their own specific cut scenes. Cut scenes would be problematic as there would have to be a completely separate set of animations (or even scene composition) to accommodate a non-humanoid physique. Say you have cut a scene were everyone is pinned down by fire. So Garrus is taking cover, back against a pillar, and popping out here and there to fire off some shots. An Elcor can't do that. It's too big and its body can't move in that say. Hanar can fit, but would still require special animations which isn't the real problem for me. It's how a hanar would look running around the field, hopping into cover. It would look ridiculous. Like a pink flying spaghetti monster being yanked around.

You may not care about facial features, but Bioware does and has stated as much. But are you saying you want to play as an elcor, hanar or Rachni. Rachni can't exactly talk directly to anyone. I'm pretty sure Bioware wouldn't make a playable race with no facial expression. A squad member with a static face maybe. Then again, they wouldn't even leave Legion without facial expression.

[NikOmba]

Same here. In fact I always though that Zaeed should have been a Batarian instead of a Human; its not like his backstory or character would have changed. Plus it would have given us more alien squad mates instead of another human.

 
It would have made more sense and would have been consistent iwth the first novel, whcih stated the Blue Suns were a batarian gang that had recently started recruiting humans. Then again, I think he might have fit better in ME3 as a batarian noble-type character. Someone from a high caste looking down on Shepard and his comrades, and criticising the war effort that he sees as hopeless. A guy you can love to hate.
 

Just like the title of the topic says, are we going to see aliens like the Hanar and Elcor take a more prominent role in future Mass Effect games, or are they going to remain the joke races of the setting?

I know that most people see the Asari, or Turians as more popular, but why should the setting of ME; like Star Trek, and Star Wars; be dominated by the age-old troupe of: "Aliens as just humans with rubber masks on"?

It just comes down to effort. Properly animating elcor and hanar is hard and it also means creating an environment suited to them... which is hard when you need human or other humanoid characters alongside them. It would be cool though to visit their homeworlds and actually see their enviroments. Especially if it had an effect on gameplay. The eclor homeworld especially, with its high gravity, or the volus homeworld with its exotic environment would be interesting. In particular it'd be interesting to see the volus homeworld and meet volus without their suits on. Maybe visit them at a volus 'tropical beach' wich has sub-zero temperatures for humans, but its perfect for them.

[StrawHatMoose]

@Vortex13 how would Elcor sprint? Comparing diving to walking is apples to oranges. What technology would make them sprint?!?! You've seen how Elcor move on the citadel (which has normal gravity afaik) and it's still slower than an asmatic snail. You may say mass effect fields, then why not just make them fly.
Despite this, I wouldn't mind an Elcor soldier. But I do think you're being quite stubborn by trying to push the idea that Elcor can sprint (I mean seriously?)
I've been for Rachni soldier since I first saw them (they can use guns, it said somewhere in the codex I think and have great biotic potential and they look cooler than an iceberg on Pluto).

[Vazgen]

Elcor squadmate won't fit in the Kodiak

[Vortex13]

@Vortex13: You're putting too much faith in elcor's physiology, elcor move slowly on purpose because they evolved on a high gravity environment and if they trip if can be fatal since the mass of their bodies will crush their respiratory system, add armor and tech to their body mass and they'll die even faster. Also elcor aren't bipedal and a bipedal animal can travel longer distances more efficiently. There is also the issue of getting to areas that require climbing walls, crawling through small spaces etc. so an elcor squad mate isn't really practical if your going to doing that a lot.

 

I understand why the Elcor have to move slowly, but if we are saying that an Elcor's evolution specifically forbade them from moving quickly, then why not evolve squat forms lower to the ground? Why not evolve into a giant amorphous blob; that way you would never have to worry about falling to your death?

 

It's obvious that something else required the Elcor to maintain their large shapes, with long limbs and quadrupedal forms, most likely predators. It even says in the Elcor's codex that:

 

Prehistoric elcor traveled across Dekuuna in large tribal groups. These groups were likely led by the oldest and most experienced elcor. This may have later developed into the elcor culture of Elders, whose wisdom could keep the tribe safe provided they followed the correct guidance.

 

If the only issue the Elcor faced was 'don't fall down' then why would they need the Wise Elders to provide guidance? It stands to reason that Dekuuna had predators, and; as in the case in our world; the quickest people would be the most likely to survive an attack and therefore become experienced or 'wise' in dealing with those predators in the future . 

 

 

 

Now it's true that an Elcor would require a different approach to certain areas, but why couldn't we have multiple means of accomplishing our PC's goals? For the Suicide Mission in ME 2 you couldn't send Grunt into the vents; not that he was at all the right choice for the job; but he was still a squad member. Assuming that we encounter a similar scenario in a future ME title with and Elcor squad mate, why couldn't we just do something similar? Send the Elcor out to hold the line while the more practical character handles the confined space?

 

@Vortex13 how would Elcor sprint? Comparing diving to walking is apples to oranges. What technology would make them sprint?!?! You've seen how Elcor move on the citadel (which has normal gravity afaik) and it's still slower than an asmatic snail. You may say mass effect fields, then why not just make them fly.
Despite this, I wouldn't mind an Elcor soldier. But I do think you're being quite stubborn by trying to push the idea that Elcor can sprint (I mean seriously?)
I've been for Rachni soldier since I first saw them (they can use guns, it said somewhere in the codex I think and have great biotic potential and they look cooler than an iceberg on Pluto).

 

 

Humans are incapable of breathing underwater, but we still can hold our breath to dive down. We can force our bodies to operate in an area that we were not designed to function in. An Elcor being incapable of moving quickly would likely approach sprinting in the same way.

 

And when I say sprinting, I don't mean that an Elcor will be able to go out and pull off a three minute mile. Comparatively, an Elcor will still be slower than a human running flat out; maybe even jogging; but if a situation arises wherein an Elcor has to move quickly or die; such as battlefield situation; then they would move quickly. 

 

The Elcor we see on the Citadel only move at a snail's pace; like you said; but then again so do all the humans, Turians, Salarians, and Asari. Just because we haven't seen them move at a faster pace doesn't mean that said snail's pace is their only speed; more likely, the civilian nature of the Citadel means that the need for increased movement never comes up.

 

I mean we never see a Salarian eat anything in the ME games either, but that doesn't mean that their race is unable to eat food.

 

 

 

I am with you on the Rachni; they are my absolute favorite aliens of the entire ME setting; though I personally would view them as a 'pure melee' character with the ability to use biotics and acid spit as supplements. I know that they are capable of manipulating technology like guns, but I personally find the concept of a Rachni running around with a Lancer to be a little silly  .

 

Nothing is as cool as an alien with only natural armor and weapons defeating an opponent with artificial weapons and armor 

[Farangbaa]

Being able to stop a muscle from doing it's work (holding breath under water) is so not the same as forcing a muscle to do something it never does, like moving fast where it's evolved to move slow.

And you keep going on and on and on about what you see or don't see in the game, but the codex explicitly states that the Elcor are incapable of moving fast. Period, regardless of environment.

Or do you want yet another squadmate that is nothing like it's species? Like Garrus the bad Turian and Wrex the mutant Krogan, who are just humans in costume.

Not even mentioning how incredibly annoying an Elcor squadmate would be. If they have to put it in the game, please make it shut up or inable to speak at all.

[Vortex13]

Elcor squadmate won't fit in the Kodiak

 

 

If a Kodiak can hold Shepard, two squad mates, Cortez, Wrex, Eve and Mordin/Padok then it should have no issues with one Elcor. 

 

Besides, if the MP is any indication, the Kodiak is capable of holding 4 Geth Juggernauts, and evacuating under heavy fire; an Elcor would be nothing 

[Vazgen]

If a Kodiak can hold Shepard, two squad mates, Cortez, Wrex, Eve and Mordin/Padok then it should have no issues with one Elcor. 

 

Besides, if the MP is any indication, the Kodiak is capable of holding 4 Geth Juggernauts, and evacuating under heavy fire; an Elcor would be nothing 

Haha, OK

Personally, I would not want Elcor squadmate because I think it's impossible to balance them. 

Option 1: Powerful attacks, low defense - they will die too quickly on higher difficulties without the ability to use cover

Option 2: Weak attacks, high defense - not useful since I can't use him/her in front of myself (will block my shots) and having him/her in the back is kinda pointless. Plus it kinda ruins the point of an Elcor

Option 3: Powerful attacks, high defense - a freaking overpowered tank

 

I would prefer a vorcha squadmate

[Vortex13]

Being able to stop a muscle from doing it's work (holding breath under water) is so not the same as forcing a muscle to do something it never does, like moving fast where it's evolved to move slow.

And you keep going on and on and on about what you see or don't see in the game, but the codex explicitly states that the Elcor are incapable of moving fast. Period, regardless of environment.

Or do you want yet another squadmate that is nothing like it's species? Like Garrus the bad Turian and Wrex the mutant Krogan, who are just humans in costume.

Not even mentioning how incredibly annoying an Elcor squadmate would be. If they have to put it in the game, please make it shut up or inable to speak at all.

 

People can force their arms and legs out of socket all the time; granted the experience is not pleasant in the slightest, but it is possible to force one's body to do things that it was never designed to do. 

 

And I'm sorry but incapable ≠ impossible (IMO). I don't want to drag the whole thread off topic debating the semantics of word usage in the codex, but the Elcor's physiology is in direct conflict with a description that supposedly says that they evolved in such a way as to have quick movements being impossible. Either Elcor can move quickly; albeit with great effort; or they are as poorly conceived as you feel the Krogan are; with their incredibly high birth rate, and regenerative capabilities.

[Bacus]

Worse case scenario:

 

Genetic alteration:

 

MOAR LEG MUSCLES