167 réponses à ce sujet

[Vortex13]

If they can't take cover they get shot repeatedly and die.

If they don't use the same weapons they need their own specific cut scenes. Cut scenes would be problematic as there would have to be a completely separate set of animations (or even scene composition) to accommodate a non-humanoid physique. Say you have cut a scene were everyone is pinned down by fire. So Garrus is taking cover, back against a pillar, and popping out here and there to fire off some shots. An Elcor can't do that. It's too big and its body can't move in that say. Hanar can fit, but would still require special animations which isn't the real problem for me. It's how a hanar would look running around the field, hopping into cover. It would look ridiculous. Like a pink flying spaghetti monster being yanked around.

You may not care about facial features, but Bioware does and has stated as much. But are you saying you want to play as an elcor, hanar or Rachni. Rachni can't exactly talk directly to anyone. I'm pretty sure Bioware wouldn't make a playable race with no facial expression. A squad member with a static face maybe. Then again, they wouldn't even leave Legion without facial expression.

 

The Elcor could use cover in the same way the Geth Juggernaut would; they may not be able to cover slide or crouch down behind a low barricade, but standing behind a wall, or around a corner, or even using a column as a form of partial cover could work. 

 

 

As to the animation side of things, I will repost my thoughts from earlier in this thread:

 

This is true, having to animate a unique alien for conversations, walking, running, combat, and general full fledged companion/playable character actions is going to take more work then simply reusing 98% of all the 'human' animations for the other races. There is no doubt that getting an Elcor or Rachni to the same level as Turians or Humans is going to take some work. However, there are two pieces of information that make me believe that such an undertaking would be a feasible possibility rather than a pie in the sky pipe dream.

 

The first piece of information is the Frostbite 3 engine that is being used by all EA developers, from EA Sports and Dice, to BioWare and Visceral Games. All of these game devs are utilizing a common game engine, meaning that what is created by one party can be used by all others. The universality  of the Frostbite 3 engine allows for assets like animations, or effects can be dragged from one game to the next, and it will work. What this means is the basic level coding and animations, or even texturing is already done; being able to draw from a library of completed and compatible assets will cut down on time that would have been spent reinventing the wheel if a company like BioWare was working on their own or with a non-compatible game engine.

 

The second piece of information, which is more an extension to the first point, is that BioWare has gone on record as saying that Dragon Age: Inquisition, will be serving as the foundation for future BioWare titles; including the new Mass Effect title. So not only does BioWare have the advantage of using assets from all over EA, but they have the benefit of pulling from a game that is of the same genre. Being a story driven RPG, DA:I is going to have a lot in common with ME:Next, and with pretty much all of the groundwork; in terms of conversation trees, companion interaction, character customization, etc; already done BioWare can start to focus on adding in the extra features that would probably have been left on the cutting room floor. Things like non-humanoid animations, and separate gameplay mechanics. 

 

Also let us not forget that BioWare has already animated the Elcor and Rachni as NPCs and enemies in the previous ME games; building off their own work wouldn't be as hard as trying to make something from scratch.  

 

EDIT:

 

This is an article about Dragon Age: Inquisition, but there is a specific mention of the sharing of assets that applies to what I am getting at, and gives me more hope that we may actually see things like Elcor or Rachni squadmates.

 

http://www.rpgsite.n...eative-director

 

The part I am referring to I will paste below:

 

Spoiler

 

RPG Site: How much sharing goes on with Frostbite; to DICE, to the other Bioware teams...?

 

Laidlaw: Quite a lot, actually. We look at it as a sort of foundation platform. The DICE team has been very, very helpful, and... well, the Dragon Age team is responsible for a significant number of the check-ins that come back from external teams. 

 

A large part of that is because what we're doing is so different to the stuff you see in Battlefield. We're building tech that does different stuff, but does cool stuff. Other teams end up seeing what we've been building and saying 'Ooh, that would be great' and then using it. 

 

A classic example is we built a system by which we can set up a single scene, but characters can be varying heights. A dwarf is a very different height to a Qunari, for instance. With the system we built, that scene will operate; It might need a tiny bit of manual tweaking, but it'll out of the box, it works. That's a tough bit of tech, but we had a really good use case for it, we can test it, shake it down, check it into the mainline - and suddenly, hey - Frostbite's a better engine. 

 

So, yeah - it's definitely a very collaborative effort, especially within the other Bioware teams. We're laying groundwork here for systems that our style of game uses, but those teams are going to continue to evolve Frostbite over time.

 

 

/EDIT

 

 

Lastly, regarding the facial features, and expressions, I am sorry if my initial post came across as me not wanting any form of expression in the non-humanoid aliens; that is not true, I do want and expect expressions to come with companion characters. Much like Legion's 'face flanges' or the Dog in DA:O, a great degree of personality can still be communicated from something that doesn't have a human face.

 

Giving a Rachni companion a wide array of poses and postures can quite easily be used as a barometer to measure it's feelings about particular matters. An Elcor's body language might be more muted, but very subtle actions, plus the character choosing to use or not use a descriptor in front of his or her words would make for an excellent means of conveying varying shades of emotion for a seemingly (to human standards anyway) emotionless species. 

[Farangbaa]

People can force their arms and legs out of socket all the time; granted the experience is not pleasant in the slightest, but it is possible to force one's body to do things that it was never designed to do. 

 

And I'm sorry but incapable ≠ impossible (IMO). I don't want to drag the whole thread off topic debating the semantics of word usage in the codex, but the Elcor's physiology is in direct conflict with a description that supposedly says that they evolved in such a way as to have quick movements being impossible. Either Elcor can move quickly; albeit with great effort; or they are as poorly conceived as you feel the Krogan are; with their incredibly high birth rate, and regenerative capabilities.

 

Fine, lets say they can move fast with great effort.

 

Missions last like 45 minutes. You'd spend 90% of it waiting for your Elcor companion to catch up with you, or, when it 'sprints', have him/her breathe heavilly for a few minutes.

 

'Exhausted, Commander, need some time to catch my breath'.

 

Equate it to a male lion with it's manes (I'll grant this isn't a perfect analogy). It can attack if necessary, and will do so to defend it's pride (his lionesses), but can only do so for a few minutes because his manes are a handicap making him overheat. The Elcor would be in this 'overheating' phase most of the mission.

 

This is assuming they even can move at normal speeds, which to them would be a sprint.

[Han Shot First]

I'd like to see all of them play a more prominent role in the series, with more NPCs from each species, but I'm not sure if any of them would work as a squadmate. Besides the design challenges involved in including an Elcor or Hanar squadmate in combat, their manner of speech would be grating (particularly the Elcor) in anything other than short doses. They are much better suited for minor NPCs rather than companions.

 

If the next protagonist is going to have a squadmate from a species that hasn't previously been on the squad, my vote would go to a Batarian character. A raloi could also be interesting, since we've yet to see them.

 

Another interesting possibility would be to introduce a new character from a species that didn't appear in previous games. According to the lore the Terminus systems are populated by a 'loose affiliation of minor species, united only in their refusal to acknowledge the political authority of the Citadel or adhere to the Citadel Conventions.' So there are other species besides the Batarians and Vorcha, we just haven't seen them yet besides a brief glimpse of one of them in the comics. They could always do something similar to Thane, and introduce a character from a new species while giving that species a backstory that makes them part of galactic civilization prior to their first mention in the series.

[Vortex13]

Fine, lets say they can move fast with great effort.

 

Missions last like 45 minutes. You'd spend 90% of it waiting for your Elcor companion to catch up with you, or, when it 'sprints', have him/her breathe heavilly for a few minutes.

 

'Exhausted, Commander, need some time to catch my breath'.

 

Equate it to a male lion with it's manes (I'll grant this isn't a perfect analogy). It can attack if necessary, and will do so to defend it's pride (his lionesses), but can only do so for a few minutes because his manes are a handicap making him overheat. The Elcor would be in this 'overheating' phase most of the mission.

 

This is assuming they even can move at normal speeds, which to them would be a sprint.

 

 

Personally, I would equate a mission with an Elcor squad mate to being something very similar to the SHIVs and/or a (less mobile) MEC trooper from XCOM: Enemy Within…. Sorry for the overuse of XCOM analogies, I have been playing the Long War mod pretty extensively so its the forefront of my mind 

 

Anyway, with things like SHIVs and (to a lesser extent) MEC troopers, you have a trade off. Do you go with a quick and fast squad of regular soldiers, able to take cover, but are very vulnerable to enemy attacks? Or do you bring out the big guns and sacrifice mobility and the ability to seek cover with the added benefit of being able to take much more punishment as well as provide cover for your regular troops?

 

I can easily see something like this being an engaging  gameplay mechanic for ME titles. An Elcor would be slower than regular, humanoid squad mates to be sure; but it could absorb far more damage. Maybe, a method similar to DA:I will make use of this, you can choose to sneak in with espionage, talk it out with diplomacy, or go in guns blazing with the military side.

[Vortex13]

I'd like to see all of them play a more prominent role in the series, with more NPCs from each species, but I'm not sure if any of them would work as a squadmate. Besides the design challenges involved in including an Elcor or Hanar squadmate in combat, their manner of speech would be grating (particularly the Elcor) in anything other than short doses. They are much better suited for minor NPCs rather than companions.

 

 

An Elcor that is familiar with the PC could drop the descriptor in front of his responses as both the player and he adventured together. The Elcor's speech patterns are only overly descriptive to avoid confusion with other races in a general sense. I image that a more personal conversation wouldn't need the descriptors as much. Take the Elcor diplomat in ME 3 for example, he purposely drops the clarification when talking to Shepard after he/she completes the fetch quest for him. Without the added statement before each statement the player would only be dealing with an alien with a monotone voice; much like Legion.

 

Likewise the Hanar could show character growth; as well as giving a minimization of any annoying methods of speaking; by having the player earn their trust and then them giving the protagonist the Hanar's Face Name. With the more personalized speech, the narrative could explore a deeper side to a potential Hanar companion, while at the same time removing the annoying "This One" from before its every response. 

 

 

If the next protagonist is going to have a squadmate from a species that hasn't previously been on the squad, my vote would go to a Batarian character. A raloi could also be interesting, since we've yet to see them.

 

Another interesting possibility would be to introduce a new character from a species that didn't appear in previous games. According to the lore the Terminus systems are populated by a 'loose affiliation of minor species, united only in their refusal to acknowledge the political authority of the Citadel or adhere to the Citadel Conventions.' So there are other species besides the Batarians and Vorcha, we just haven't seen them yet besides a brief glimpse of one of them in the comics. They could always do something similar to Thane, and introduce a character from a new species while giving that species a backstory that makes them part of galactic civilization prior to their first mention in the series.

 

 

This is very true, though personally, I would prefer an existing species that we have seen but not really explored (i.e. Vorcha, Batarians, Volus, Hanar, Drell, Elcor, Rachni, etc.) than another new (most likely humanoid) alien that would only serve to push all of the existing, but lesser well know species, further into the background. 

 

I know that such a scenario would be a "worst case" situation, but I would be disappointed if an excellent opportunity to explore a non-slaver, non-racist side of the Batarians, or the intrigue of a Hanar or Elcor soldier, or the mystery of a Rachni squad mate/major NPC was abandoned in favor of adding a new 'Flavor of the Month' alien to the setting.

[Han Shot First]

I think the problem with the Elcor isn't just the descriptor that explains their intent or emotions, but their slow and monotone manner of speech. It works in short doses, but I'm not quite sure it would with a companion character who has several conversations and lots of commentary during missions. And I say that as someone who has the Elcor as their favorite minor species.

 

I think a Yahg companion might work better. Speaking of the Yahg, his or her recruitment could be interesting given the lore. 

 

"A group of Yahg is unable to coooperate until a single leader has been determined through either social maneuvering or brute force, but no grudges are held once a Yahg establishes dominance. Former rivals serve their new superior's purpose with unflinching loyalty and relentless determination, a legacy of their origin as a pack species."

 

Yahg

 

You'd have to fight and defeat a Yahg first to establish dominance over it, before it would be willing to follow you.

[Vortex13]

I think the problem with the Elcor isn't just the descriptor that explains their intent or emotions, but their slow and monotone manner of speech. It works in short doses, but I'm not quite sure it would with a companion character who has several conversations and lots of commentary during missions. And I say that as someone who has the Elcor as their favorite minor species.

 

I think a Yahg companion might work better. Speaking of the Yahg, his or her recruitment could be interesting given the lore. 

 

"A group of Yahg is unable to coooperate until a single leader has been determined through either social maneuvering or brute force, but no grudges are held once a Yahg establishes dominance. Former rivals serve their new superior's purpose with unflinching loyalty and relentless determination, a legacy of their origin as a pack species."

 

Yahg

 

You'd have to fight and defeat a Yahg first to establish dominance over it, before it would be willing to follow you.

 

 

Or have a very high Charm/Intimidate skill 

[Drone223]

I think the problem with the Elcor isn't just the descriptor that explains their intent or emotions, but their slow and monotone manner of speech. It works in short doses, but I'm not quite sure it would with a companion character who has several conversations and lots of commentary during missions. And I say that as someone who has the Elcor as their favorite minor species.

 

I think a Yahg companion might work better. Speaking of the Yahg, his or her recruitment could be interesting given the lore. 

 

"A group of Yahg is unable to coooperate until a single leader has been determined through either social maneuvering or brute force, but no grudges are held once a Yahg establishes dominance. Former rivals serve their new superior's purpose with unflinching loyalty and relentless determination, a legacy of their origin as a pack species."

 

Yahg

 

You'd have to fight and defeat a Yahg first to establish dominance over it, before it would be willing to follow you.

I agree a Yahg would make a better tank character than an elcor.

[Phalanx]

Guys, the only reasons that Elcor are slow stems from the 4G surface gravity of their home world and the cultural, psychological and physical effects of that.

Take them to somewhere with only 1G and the factors physically preventing them from being are largely eliminated. For reference that's like taking a human to somewhere with only 0.25G; roughly 1.5 that of the moon or less than half that of Mars.

In such an environment a human need not actually move their muscles particularly quickly in order to travel rapidly. Relatively light & graceful pushes allow you to effectively glide and maintain speed thanks to your momentum. Think of it as like running down a slight hill. In the right circumstances you find yourself not really having to try very hard as your momentum keeps you moving at the same speed the ground drops away from you.

 

The problem is that you need to learn how to move properly in such an environment. Astronauts on the moon would fall over quite often as the were not used to balancing themselves in such an environment and it could be difficult not to over estimate the force required for an action.

 

Elcor would be more than capable of being fast, just maybe not being particularly agile. One trained or used to a "low" gravity environment would be perfectly capable of keeping up with species used to such an environment, maybe even outpacing them (thanks to their strong mussels & long limbs). They would also, naturally, be spectacularly strong. This is without assistance from powered armour as well.

 

In short, for Elcor in 1G environments, think Humans on the Moon/Mars (Moon probably a better comparison as we have practical experience of that and the suits could mass almost half the astronaut's body, effectively approximating the experience to what an Elcor would feel in 1G). They would be clumsy and thus moving slow would be the best choice, and in the Elcor's case have a lifetime of learned behaviour teaching them to be that way. However, once trained they could be effectively "Superelcor", without even needing to move their mussels particularly fast.

[Vazgen]

I'm now imagining John Carter elcor

[Farangbaa]

Guys, the only reasons that Elcor are slow stems from the 4G surface gravity of their home world and the cultural, psychological and physical effects of that.
Take them to somewhere with only 1G and the factors physically preventing them from being are largely eliminated. For reference that's like taking a human to somewhere with only 0.25G; roughly 1.5 that of the moon or less than half that of Mars.
In such an environment a human need not actually move their muscles particularly quickly in order to travel rapidly. Relatively light & graceful pushes allow you to effectively glide and maintain speed thanks to your momentum. Think of it as like running down a slight hill. In the right circumstances you find yourself not really having to try very hard as your momentum keeps you moving at the same speed the ground drops away from you.
 
The problem is that you need to learn how to move properly in such an environment. Astronauts on the moon would fall over quite often as the were not used to balancing themselves in such an environment and it could be difficult not to over estimate the force required for an action.
 
Elcor would be more than capable of being fast, just maybe not being particularly agile. One trained or used to a "low" gravity environment would be perfectly capable of keeping up with species used to such an environment, maybe even outpacing them (thanks to their strong mussels & long limbs). They would also, naturally, be spectacularly strong. This is without assistance from powered armour as well.
 
In short, for Elcor in 1G environments, think Humans on the Moon/Mars (Moon probably a better comparison as we have practical experience of that and the suits could mass almost half the astronaut's body, effectively approximating the experience to what an Elcor would feel in 1G). They would be clumsy and thus moving slow would be the best choice, and in the Elcor's case have a lifetime of learned behaviour teaching them to be that way. However, once trained they could be effectively "Superelcor", without even needing to move their mussels particularly fast.

Cool story.

Go look up vids on youtube about astronouts returning from space, and how effortlessly they walk with their degraded muscles.

[Phalanx]

Cool story.

Go look up vids on youtube about astronouts returning from space, and how effortlessly they walk with their degraded muscles.

 

Not exactly the most difficult problem to overcome in a setting defined by the technology to manipulate gravity...

 

Also given that we're talking 0.25 of what they're used to rather than effectively 0 the effects would be significantly diminished and thanks to Mass Effect technology there is absolutely no reason for their exposer to "low" gravity to be around the clock.

[Farangbaa]

Not exactly the most difficult problem to overcome in a setting defined by the technology to manipulate gravity...

Also given that we're talking 0.25 of what they're used to rather than effectively 0 the effects would be significantly diminished and thanks to Mass Effect technology there is absolutely no reason for their exposer to "low" gravity to be around the clock.

Well I guess the Elcor haven't discovered the mass effect yet then.

Why aren't they using this in ME1 to 3? They forgot about eezo?

[Phalanx]

Well I guess the Elcor haven't discovered the mass effect yet then.

Why aren't they using this in ME1 to 3? They forgot about eezo?

Who says they aren't? We've only seen civilians/diplomats out about during the day. There isn't exacly much need for them to be using such gear. Once they get home however it's very likely that the have the gravity set higher.

[Vortex13]

Who says they aren't? We've only seen civilians/diplomats out about during the day. There isn't exacly much need for them to be using such gear. Once they get home however it's very likely that the have the gravity set higher.

 

 

Very good point.

[The Twilight God]

Vortex

 

For some reason it won't quote.

 

So now all the levels have to be designed with huge objects just for the one elcor squadmate. Come on now. An elcor is just out of the question. It's like having an rhino squadmate. They just can't move like a humanoid. Turning would be awkward. They are slow. They can't run and gun. And if you gave them some automated back canon they can't shoot around corners. It's just not going to happen. I doubt they are going to be mobile mortar platforms. And if it was an automated canon where does said elcor's combat ability come into play? Why is he even there? Might as well have a mech.

 

And Frostbite isn't going to make any of the issues disappear. An elcor's isn't a gunlock or an ogre. I don't see how sharing animation coding across multiple games is relevant as an elcor is pretty much a quadruped that can stand on 3 legs, but can only move on 4. They would literally be better off having a Shifty Looking Cow companion. At least they have proper arms suited to shooting a gun.

 

Rachni are cool, but the lack of speech is problematic. Are they going to have a human head in a jar like Futurama that they talk through? Because it's not like they talk through clicks and chirps that could utilize a universal translator.

 

I've already said why I can't see Hanar. I just see pink spaghetti flying around. It would just look silly. Their lore indicates that they can't effectively fight outside of water.

 

I could see these types of aliens being temporary squad members in specific missions tailored to their physiology. Or non-squadmate characters like Joker or Chakwas. Elcor mechanic? Hanar physician? Rachni engineer who speaks through parrot?

[Vortex13]

So now all the levels have to be designed with huge objects just for the one elcor squadmate. Come on now. An elcor is just out of the question. It's like having an rhino squadmate. They just can't move like a humanoid. Turning would be awkward. They are slow. They can't run and gun. And if you gave them some automated back canon they can't shoot around corners. It's just not going to happen. I doubt they are going to be mobile mortar platforms. And if it was an automated canon where does said elcor's combat ability come into play? Why is he even there? Might as well have a mech.

 

 

Levels wouldn't have to be totally redesigned to incorporate an Elcor squad mate. All hub/civilian areas are very open, so walking around with the Elcor in tow would not be a problem, and most combat areas are relatively open, and those areas that are not …. well the Frostbite 3 engine; with it's propensity for destructible environments; can solve that nicely. For the areas that are specifically designed for close quarters; things like stealth missions, or crawling through a ventilation system; then simply don't allow the Elcor to be selectable for that particular quest.

 

Again, I would liken this back to XCOM:Enemy Within (and again I will apologize for my overuse of the same analogy, but XCOM:EW is awesome  ). In that game you could use MEC troopers; 10 - 12 foot tall cyborg/exo-suits; along side your regular flesh and blood soldiers. The levels that you fight on didn't have to be altered to accommodate the MECs, you would just have additional options to consider when you went to engage the alien menace. Did you use your regular troops to breach and clear a warehouse, or did you have the giant metal man punch a hole through the wall? Did you go in (relatively) quite, or do you (literally) bring down the walls and go in guns blazing? The use of MEC troopers did have it's limitations however, and there were certain scenarios where such a unit wasn't available, or wouldn't be feasible to use.

 

 

That is really what I envision an Elcor bringing to the table (combat-wise) another option on how players want to engage their enemies, and (IMO) more options are always a good thing. 

 

 

As far as a mech being more practical, you are correct. A robot would be more useful in combat scenarios than an Elcor, but it would also be more practical than all of the other squishy meat bags that are the human and alien crew. If we are going to say that we should have robots instead of particular characters because they are better at what they do, then we really shouldn't have ever had Commander Shepard, or Tali, or Garrus, or Wrex; after all a mech would be so much more effective at combat then they could be. I mean why would we ever want to risk valuable lives when we can simply let the Terminator do the job?

 

The point of having other, alien characters is to see the other side of the galaxy, to experience the non-human side of the setting. (IMO)

 

 

And Frostbite isn't going to make any of the issues disappear. An elcor's isn't a genlock or an ogre. I don't see how sharing animation coding across multiple games is relevant as an elcor is pretty much a quadruped that can stand on 3 legs, but can only move on 4. They would literally be better off having a Shifty Looking Cow companion. At least they have proper arms suited to shooting a gun.

 

 

Frostbite 3 isn't going to make these problems go away, that is true, but it will allow the ME team to focus on issues like this, rather than spend all of their development time in trying to work out the basic gameplay mechanics since all of the dialogue wheels, companion interaction trees, and general animations will have already been done by the DA team. Frostbite is not an engine typically associated with RPGs, but thanks to BioWare's efforts on DA:I, all of the groundwork has been laid, and the ME can focus on adding to the experience, instead of trying to re-create it.

 

Rachni are cool, but the lack of speech is problematic. Are they going to have a human head in a jar like Futurama that they talk through? Because it's not like they talk through clicks and chirps that could utilize a universal translator.

 

 

 

The Rachni's communication wouldn't be an issue, I will repost my thoughts on the matter from earlier in this thread: 

 

 

 

You can speak to the Rachni; the Queen could understand Shepard just fine; its just that the Rachni talking back in a way that we can understand, that would require an intermediate. Now we have see that the Rachni possess the ability to speak through a host; either willing or near death; although the mechanics of that little power are rather vague. It wouldn't be any stretch of the existing lore to say that a Rachni squad-mate could either use: 

 

• A host as a speaker. Think of an NPC like Kelly Chambers who's only purpose is to allow the Rachni and the PC to talk. This NPC would be more useful in-between missions, where the investigation dialogue, and exploration of the companion characters takes place. This could help open up an interesting take on human (assuming the PC is human again) and alien outlooks. The PC could feel that the Rachni are doing something 'unnatural' to the speaker but the Rachni could explain that the exchange is willing, and that both it and the speaker benefit from the interaction. Think of the potential interaction as an expansion of the scene from ME 2 on Illium where Shepard meets the Asari in the Queen's service. 

 

• Being given a technological means of communication in the form of a VI translation device. This may sound like a copout, but consider the fact that Rachni employ a biological QEC and that a technological QEC is a relatively new piece of technology. In ME 2, very few people had access to a QEC, and even Shepard didn't know what they were the first time they were mentioned. Carry this forward into ME 3, and while a little more widespread, QECs are seemingly reserved for military and high level political use; not something the everyman would have access to. What I am getting at here is that the uses of QEC technology are still in an early stage of development, who's to say that, as the technology improves that a Rachni couldn't 'tune in' to a specific communicator? Again, this might sound like a copout, but it would be no different then having all the aliens in the setting speak the same language as the humans. Having a Rachni translator VI would be no more of a stretch, than no one questioning how Shepard can carry on a conversation with an Asari, Salarian, and a Krogan, and have all of them understanding each other.

 

As far as combat prowess is concerned, you have a species that doesn't rely on on fabricated weapons or armor, and is still capable of fighting on even ground with species that do use fabricated weapons and armor, not to mention that Rachni do posses biotic abilities. It is not a retcon to say that Rachni Queens or certain specialized Drones have capabilities that go beyond the average Rachni soldier; things like a more hardened exoskeleton, or backup organs etc. Even our own terrestrial ants and bees have such variation (granted nothing as extreme, but hey this is a Sci-Fi game  ). Also, even without technological assistance, or a 'speaker' the Rachni have been shown to be capable of understanding what other species are saying to them. 

 

Yelling out "Take Cover!" or "Cover our Flanks!" is more of a one sided conversation anyway; as long as the Rachni can understand and obey the commands; there is really no need for it to answer back on the field of battle.

 

 

 

 

 

I've already said why I can't see Hanar. I just see pink spaghetti flying around. It would just look silly. Their lore indicates that they can't effectively fight outside of water.

 

I could see these types of aliens being temporary squad members in specific missions tailored to their physiology. Or non-squadmate characters like Joker or Chakwas. Elcor mechanic? Hanar physician? Rachni engineer who speaks through parrot?

 

 

The Hanar have to be at least capable of combat outside of their native environment, otherwise how could they have trained the Drell? I will grant that a Hanar dodging and weaving between cover would look 'odd' but I feel that the jury is still out on whether they would be completely ineffective in combat.

 

 

That being said, I can understand a Hanar being too 'out there' for BioWare to consider them for full fledged companion status (for this game anyway  ) but an non squad mate/advisor role would suit them perfectly. Maybe a Hanar politician with connections in the upper echelons of Council Space? 

[Vortex13]

This is a bit of a Necro I know, but I have recently finished my first play-through of DA:I,  and I feel that topics presented in this thread need to be brought to light (again) as focus is starting to shift back to the new ME title. 

 

 

 

BioWare has done an amazing job of creating and flushing out the settings of both Dragon Age and Mass Effect, they have filled each universe with colorful characters and companions. I always look forward towards the next big BioWare release, but I am concerned about the loss of diversity in both game series with each successful release.

 

 

I am not talking about diversity in terms of nationality, or racial/cultural tensions, or political viewpoints, or sexual orientation, etc; all of those are things BioWare incorporates very well into their narratives; I am talking about the steady decline of non-human perspectives, and characters in the game worlds (IMO). Compare the amount of non-human characters in DA:O/DA:A vs. DA:I or the 'alien' aliens in ME 1 & 2 vs ME 3. Sure, you can say that Dwarves and Elves or Asari and Turians are not human, but apart from appearance they are exactly like us; a tweak of a specific aspect of human culture perhaps, but the characters of Fenris or Garus could have been a human and nothing about their character development would change. I am not saying that I hate characters like that; Garus was my bro for all three ME titles; but when everyone you meet in a setting is just a human or rubber fore headed human it starts to detract from the richness of the setting (again IMO).

 

 

In DA:O/DA:A you could talk to and interact with, Golems, Werewolves, Spirits/Demons, talking trees and even Darkspawn; each with their own motivations, personalities, and characters; flash forward to DA:I and all of those things are missing, the remaining few are one dimensional monsters for the player to kill. Dragon Age: Inquisition feels flat in terms of variety; sure we can see the plight of mages and elves, or the dogmatic religions of the Chantry and the Qun, but any non-human perspectives have reverted back to: "Monster SMASH!" and I feel that the setting is not as compelling as it could be without them.

 

 

Likewise, the 'alien' aliens in ME have slowly been pushed to the background in favor of more human elements. I realize that humans are BioWare's primary demographic, but science fiction has always been about exploring the unknown and finding our place in the universe; I just find it a little underwhelming when all that's out there is 'us' apparently. The Hanar, the Elcor, the Rachni, the (pre-ME3) Geth, all of these alien races added a distinct non-human flair to the Mass Effect setting that helped it stand apart from other sci-fi titles; but as the games went on, these races where either pushed to the background or made more human while new, human-like aliens were added to the setting (Drell, Yharg, etc). It's a little disheartening when a player has to (pretty much) squint to see the scant few 'aliens' present in a veritable sea of human and rubber fore-headed human characters, or when the games fall into the age old trope of Not Human = Bad. 

 

 

I am concerned about the outcome of the non-human elements upon seeing this video (2:20 on is what I am particularly interested in)  while browsing for news about ME:Next. From what I see, the good aliens are being designed with 'good' or Earth-like home worlds or human-like colonies, while the bad aliens are going to exist in the 'evil' planets harmful to human life or living in structures with alien geometry.

 

Why are we basing an alien's morality on what we find acceptable?

 

Just because a sentient being comes from a planet with a corrosive acid for an atmosphere, or builds structures that look menacing or foreboding to human perception doesn't mean that they are hell bent on enslaving or killing all humans in the universe. What if an alien society evolved on a world with very little natural resources and their culture finds the eating of one's young to be an act of great generosity and charity, are they automatically this unfathomable evil that has to be killed? Or what if an alien species that spends their entire lives in constant motion find the static nature of humanity to be their personification of death? Does every creatures' outlook on the universe have to be something that our human PC can instantly identify with in order to be considered one of the 'good guys'? 

 

 

I want a game about exploration to be more than simply discovering an uncharted planet, or finding some lost artifact; meeting new people with cultures and societies completely alien to yours is a part of exploration as well. 

[Element Zero]

I'd rather all the development time it would take to get non-humanoid cohorts working properly instead be devoted to other game content.

I suspect the exploration ME will be emphasizing includes more than driving around in the Mako. I believe exploration of alien cultures will be important in this game.

The Reaperized Elcor and Volus on page 1 are awesome! Too bad that didn't make it into ME3.

[Vortex13]

I'd rather all the development time it would take to get non-humanoid cohorts working properly instead be devoted to other game content.

I suspect the exploration ME will be emphasizing includes more than driving around in the Mako. I believe exploration of alien cultures will be important in this game.

The Reaperized Elcor and Volus on page 1 are awesome! Too bad that didn't make it into ME3.

 

 

I have no doubt that discovering new alien societies will be a part of ME:Next, my only concern (if what is mentioned in the video I linked is true) is that we are only going to be seeing alien societies that are 'good' based on our perception of what we find hospitable. Mass Effect shouldn't be a fantasy world where the bad guys wear black and have spiky armor and/or castles; this is a science fiction story.

 

 

I don't want to see the game present a setting were only those aliens that are similar to us get to be the 'good guys' and those that hail from truly alien environments are 'bad guys' because the're different and only those people who are different from us are evil; It's boring.

 

The whole fantasy troupe of 'goodly races' (or human looking = good) should have no place in a sci-fi game (IMO).

[Element Zero]

It's hard to say. I agree that Mass Effect embraces the trope. It would be cool to see that turned on its head, though it's not a major thing for me.

[Vortex13]

It's hard to say. I agree that Mass Effect embraces the trope. It would be cool to see that turned on its head, though it's not a major thing for me.

 

 

Different people have different tastes, I can totally understand and respect that.

 

 

Though it would be nice for the alien side of things to take a more active and important role in sci-fi setting for once instead of being the faceless MacGuffin and/or mindless monsters.

[Display Name Owner]

With unbridled enthusiasm - The Elcor would be grateful for more screentime.

[Equalitas]

I dont think they will take more part in ME4. We will prolly be given new races to explore