46 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

Don't kill him.

[congokong]

At first glance this seems like a hard decision but with deep thinking it isn't. You have to kill the architect. Why?

 

1. Peaceful co-existence between humans, elves, etc. and darkspawn isn't really possible.

2. Thinking darkspawn so far have proven to be a very bad thing.

3. The Architect has done or tried to do things that put Loghain to shame.

4. The Architect is incompetent.

 

 

The explanation for "1" revolves around the fact that darkspawn have to abduct another species to use for brood mothers to reproduce. Not a good thing. Also, can you picture darkspawn that are practically zombies becoming part of society?

 

The reasoning behind "2" is that thinking darkspawn have proven to be huge threats in small numbers despite not fighting during a blight. When against others, they are far more dangerous than the mindless darkspawn were. Thinking darkspawn have also "reacted poorly" to thinking for themselves as the Architect mildly put it. The main antagonist of Awakening, the Brood Mother, is the best example. Becoming aware of what she was drove her mad. Not surprising. Now imagine all darkspawn gaining this awareness. It's pretty scary.

 

"3" is because the Architect has done things like brutal experiments and trying to turn all people into darkspawn hybrids that would kill millions because of the taint death ratio all for the "greater good." For him no price is too high for his cause and that makes him far too dangerous.

 

"4" is valid because the Architect may have arguably noble goals but bungles the job quite often. He caused the 5th blight after all because of an "oops." Can you trust him to keep fiddling with the minds of darkspawn; especially since some have gone crazy and/or turned other darkspawn to their violent cause?

[MrFob]

I was going to write a post here but congokong summarized all the arguments I wanted to make perfectly. This was exactly what was going through my mind at the time.

 

Furthermore, the darkspawn threat, or rather the threat of blights, is (hopefully) a problem that will solve itself in the foreseeable future. There were 7 old gods and 5 of them are dead. Two more blights and we are through. Of course, this is assuming that there are no more old gods that we don't know about but given all the information we have, there is an end to the blights in sight. And frankly, the blight in DA:o was not that scary on a global scale if you think about it. Sure, it was a huge problem for Ferelden but only because the country was in an extremely bad position to start with and it got even worse with Loghain. Unless this was an exceptionally mild blight, I don't see the darkspawn as a problem that really threatens the existence of sapient species on Thedas. The first blight might have been but not anymore.

In the end, the architect is bargaining from a very weak position and given the risks that the his plan involves, I don't think it's a chance I am willing to take at this point.

[MagicalMaster]

Darkspawn literally spread blight by their very presence.  Even the "Lone Ranger" good guy Messenger spreads the blight while trying to help people.  If there was a way to actually contain the blight then intelligent Darkspawn would fine -- but they endanger others by their very existence.  And unconsciously so -- it's not like a mage who might ignite a town, it's like a mage who might ignite a town by complete accident without intending to do so.

There's no such thing as a non-harmful co-existence here.  We just need to survive two more Blights.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Nor is it solved by tainting everyone on the planet so the Architect can make intelligent darkspawn either.  That was his plan btw, he isn't out to do this to help humanity.  He's out to free his people from the Old Gods' call.  Just how did you think he was going to go about that when he needs the blood of wardens to do so?  The only way would be to force the Joining on every other living sentient on the planet.  And to make more darkspawn he'd still need more women to transform into broodmothers.  That isn't going to change anytime soon either.

 

 

An old plan he's since moved on from. It's irrelevant to the decision here-and-now, other than what it might say about the Architect's character, which was nothing I did not already judge to be true of him: the Darkspawn are his people, so naturally he'll do what's in their interest, and will probably harbor the same mistrust for our people as we do for his (though it's apparently not too great for him to try reasoning with you, which is good).

 

I think the "Warden" blood he gets comes from those weird clones you see/fight in the Silverite mine, but without knowing for sure, it's a valid concern.

 

I don't think he's ever stated the goal to make more Darkspawn and to live as we do (could use a fact-check here though 'cause I'm drawing way deep into the memory-banks), just that he's trying to cure them of their nature so long as they exist. That's my main point, anyway. As is, Darkspawn are going to do that because it's in their nature to. But if Darkspawn are free-willed, and in some cases shown willing to help people like the Messenger was, then I'd think those groups of Darkspawn would be averse to creating more Broodmothers enough to choose not to.

 

We'll see, though. While the DA:A epilogue slides are promising, I do worry that DA:I could make me regret this.

[KaiserShep]

We'll see, though. While the DA:A epilogue slides are promising, I do worry that DA:I could make me regret this.

 

I just finished a new playthrough of DA:O and completedly DA:A, and I decided to take a "leap of faith" with the Architect this time around, and it does seem pretty interesting. I do like how the epilogue plays out with this though. Given that strict true or false nature of the Architect's existence, I don't suppose anything really huge will be made of it in the long run of the series, but I sure hope I don't regret it either.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Normally, I'd say anything goes as far as fighting the Blights is concerned, but the Architect has shown more propensity towards causing disaster than averting it. First he tried to destroy the entire planet (though I don't think he had any chance of that,) then he awakened an Archdemon without even wanting to (which really could cause an apocalypse.) I don't know when he tried to Awaken the Mother relative to all of this, but that nearly destroyed Amaranthine. Now, if I thought what he was doing actually had some chance of ending the cycles of the Blights I'd probably be in favor of it. But I don't see him getting all the darkspawn (not least because he now knows he can't do his thing with Broodmothers or Old Gods,) and I don't see that as necessarily a good thing should he do so (since the Mother was not the only Disciple in that army by a long shot.)

 

Edit: It occurs to me that I've forgotten to mention his failed "diplomacy" at Vigil's Keep, and his claim that all the Wardens who were brought to him were already dead when one of them (Keenan) clearly isn't. I suppose Bioware might decide to let allying with him bear fruit (though my understanding is that Nathaniel was attacked by darkspawn in the Deep Roads in DA2 if he survived Awakening, and if the Architect survived too the Architect swore that passage was safe) but until they do so I'm just going to assume the slide stating the Deep Roads have quieted is one of the ones that we shouldn't rely on.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 18 mai 2014 - 06:24 .

[Xetykins]

Wardens all over thedas should just have one major venture to the deep roads and kill them all after a blight. Nuke them while still digging for the next archdemon. Easier said than done I suppose but otherwise my simple minded great idea.

[KaiserShep]

Wardens all over thedas should just have one major venture to the deep roads and kill them all after a blight. Nuke them while still digging for the next archdemon. Easier said than done I suppose but otherwise my simple minded great idea.

 

Hell I'd love to be able to get something like wildfire or hit up the qunari for saar-qamek and systematically obliterate stretches of the Deep Roads and destroy the thaigs entirely, but the tunnel system is so extensive that it wouldn't be possible.

[Jaison1986]

Hell I'd love to be able to get something like wildfire or hit up the qunari for saar-qamek and systematically obliterate stretches of the Deep Roads and destroy the thaigs entirely, but the tunnel system is so extensive that it wouldn't be possible.

 

I'm not sure it's possible. The game hints the deep roads might cover over half of Thedas. That's too much ground for anyone to cover.

 

As for the architect, killing him seems to be the sensible thing. While helping him might seem like an good idea at first, he is an complete unknown. What if one day he or his kind decide they don't like humans and they want them gone? It's way too much of an gamble. That being said, what really worries me is what will happen after the blights end. Assuming that there are seven old gods and two are left to be slain, what then? What will happen to the darkspawn?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Wardens all over thedas should just have one major venture to the deep roads and kill them all after a blight. Nuke them while still digging for the next archdemon. Easier said than done I suppose but otherwise my simple minded great idea.

If they did something like that, the dwarves would have a much easier time of it. Especially if it was a periodic cleansing rather than merely after every Blight.

[Todd23]

Kill. He attacked the keep and lied about it to your face.

[KaiserShep]

Kill. He attacked the keep and lied about it to your face.

 

Don't forget that thus far, every effort he's made to make everything better has caused an astronomical body count by "inadvertently" causing the Blight. I finally let him live, but I only did so for my rush-job playthrough just to see what becomes of this down the line, but he always dies in my primary timeline because of these reasons.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

At first glance this seems like a hard decision but with deep thinking it isn't. You have to kill the architect. Why?
 
1. Peaceful co-existence between humans, elves, etc. and darkspawn isn't really possible.

Co-existence in the same area is impossible without adversely affecting non-darkspawn, but that doesn't mean they couldn't live in separate areas of the world. The elves used to dwell apart, after all, and would have nothing to do with humans (hell, they blamed humans for 'quickening' them, taking away their longevity/immortality and cursing them to sickness and an early death. Parallels?).

2. Thinking darkspawn so far have proven to be a very bad thing.

At least one, the Messenger, has proven otherwise. He can't help being tainted, but in the epilogue he frequently saves travellers from bandits.

Besides, thinking darkspawn will happen one day with or without the Architect's interference -- we just have to kill all the archdemons. Once the Song is gone, theoretically they will all become 'Awakened'.

3. The Architect has done or tried to do things that put Loghain to shame.

That depends on your point of view, and how far you're prepared to damn someone for accidental evils (that they then try to fix) and willful evils (that they then try to justify). As far as I'm aware, the Architect hasn't tried to turn any humans into 'safe ghouls' without their explicit consent, like in the books.

4. The Architect is incompetent.

Because his plans didn't work, sometimes in a spectacular fashion? That doesn't mean they weren't worth trying. Who else is going to try and save his species from slavery or genocide, anyway? The Grey Wardens? Pfft.

1. He's proven humans/elves/dwarfs can be exposed to the taint sufficiently to survive on the other side, mental faculties intact.
2. He's proven the darkspawn are enslaved by the archdemon's song, and that it's possible to free (awaken) them.
3. He's proven free darkspawn are capable of both reason and insanity, nobility and cruelty, same as humans, elves and dwarfs.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Not that I'm saying people shouldn't kill him though.

But I'm curious what people think should happen once all the archdemons/old gods are taken care of and the darkspawn are suddenly thinking for themselves. Should they all be killed without exception, even if some choose to stay far away from everyone else and never harm/kidnap another living person?

[Xetykins]

Not that I'm saying people shouldn't kill him though.But I'm curious what people think should happen once all the archdemons/old gods are taken care of and the darkspawn are suddenly thinking for themselves. Should they all be killed without exception, even if some choose to stay far away from everyone else and never harm/kidnap another living person?

They have to eat and reproduce. And you know what that entails.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

They have to eat and reproduce. And you know what that entails.

They have to reproduce to continue their species, but that doesn't mean they must do so.

As for eating, Dev word is that while darkspawn have been seen consuming their prisoners, it's not for reasons of 'food'. No one knows what darkspawn need to eat to survive, if anything.

[Exaltation]

I ally with The Architect,i also do the Dark Ritual.
Considering the events in DAI are 9-10 years after the Dark Ritual and The Architect,it would be interesting to see how their existence affected Thedas.

The Taint sustains the Darkspawn,they're basically immortal unless you kill them,also they won't be needing reproducing if there are enough of them.

[BlazingSpeed]

Wardens all over thedas should just have one major venture to the deep roads and kill them all after a blight. Nuke them while still digging for the next archdemon. Easier said than done I suppose but otherwise my simple minded great idea.

I remember asking Alistair about that at Ostagar and Al said that the Wardens would only be able to chase the darkspawn so far underground so nope...

[DiscoGhost]

kill. do not falter.

[DiscoGhost]

I remember asking Alistair about that at Ostagar and Al said that the Wardens would only be able to chase the darkspawn so far underground so nope...

 

the book The Calling shows what happens when a grey warden goes to far underground.