71 réponses à ce sujet

[Arcanis]

First off: I'm back from my absence in the forum - sorry about being back =P

 

After reading the books Asunder and TME I started to think about the war and taking sides.

I started the book with favouring Celene and strongly disliking her (main) rival but I have to admit

that especially the last quarter made Gaspard more likeable and I started to dislike the empress.

 

So.. the Question of this thread is, who would you help (and why)?

The lady of politics and master "the game" Empress Celene,

the honourable general and warrior Chevalier Gaspard,

or don't you care about human politics and chose Briala, for the betterment of elves?

 

And after that, what of your characters would chose different, what background would he need to have?

 

Thank you for your time

[Former_Fiend]

I'm not going to help anyone win the civil war.

 

Whichever side is smart enough to lend their support to the Inquisition, I'll help them survive the breaches. But I won't lift a finger against their mortal enemies.

 

I'm tired of this chain of deals, quid pro quo crap. I'm not asking for these people's help; I'm giving them the opportunity to help me save the world. And if they want to act like they're in a position to make demands, I'll leave them for the demons until they come begging to help me.

[CENIC]

My ideal solution would be to reconcile Celene and Briala. I think that the two of them working together and supporting each other is the best hope for underprivileged Orlesians - humans and elves alike.
I can respect Gaspard's code of honor, but his political aims in taking the throne will cause misery and suffering for the common people. My first Inquisitor will support whichever side promotes the greatest good for the people of Orlais.

[Arcanis]

Since I started the discussion I will start myself ofc =P

 

After loads of thinking abut it I would actually chose Gaspard.

I don't LIKE him, or think he is right, but I can actually understand him the most.

 

Let me explain:

 

I absolutely despise the so called game and think it should be stopped.

The game is the embodiment of the worst parts of politics and, truth be told,

I'm not really patient enough for politics to begin with (to use MTG terms, I

tend to be red-white =P).

Celene stands for the game. She uses it, she is a master in it and I always get the

feeling she actually ENJOYS it. The empress wants  change, true, but the change

she wants is not the change I say is the most important.

She wants to allow the elves to become part of the elite, but this is something

that will only be accessible for a part of her subjects (including commoners)

Not everyone can b a merchant (and be successful) and not everyone can be a scholar.

She doesn't REALLY want to change the system, she only wants to stop "discrimination".

But seriously, if you are a hungry commoner do you really care if the person that profits

from your work was born a common human, a slum elf or a noble? No, you will mostly

care about being hungry -and Celine does nothing against poverty or such, thus her

reforms are uninteresting for the majority.

 

About Briala, I understand her reasons and her goals. But my problem

with her is twofold actually. First thing:

I don't want an elven nation. I want to achieve a position that doesn't care about race.

Since I'm an isolationist myself I completely understand the sentiment of wishing to be left alone,

but if you can't leave the "world" you have to arrange yourself with it and the only way is to 

find a way to live together. It will be hard, true, but it is the only working way.

But the other problem is the bigger one: I completely and utterly hate her plan.

Prolonging a war is WRONG. It just increases suffering and -sorry about that- I don't

care that elves hat is bad, making humans suffer for elven freedom is something I can not forgive.

A crime is a crime, no matter if an ******* or an poor victim commits it. Can I understand the victim?

Yes. Do I dislike the ******* for doing it and am I more sympathetic towards the victim? Absolutely.

Does this change anything? Hell NO, wrong is wrong.  ..So no matter how much I sympathize with

her and her course of actions I could never condone them... I'm sorry about that =/

 

And no to the last one.. Gaspard.

He wants what he thinks is best for Orlais - I can understand that.

His dislike of the game is something that I share and my favourite moment

in the book is when he tells Michel that he doesn't care about the fact that Michel

is a commoner and an elfborn, since he thinks the (former) champion is the ideal of

a chevalier...

Does he do bad things? Yep. I also think he goes to far and is too ambitious, but

I also say that he is the only one that -no matter how problematic I think he is- I have the

most hope if it comes to him... I get the feeling that he agrees with my personal concerns

(I'm totally aware that I'm biased, but I hope to learn if anyone gives good arguments =)  )

 

About the characters.. If I would play an orlesian noble I would favour Celene,

because s/he would understand the game  as something useful (instead of despising it).

A mage character may favour her, because mages are usually better educated compared

to commoners, so Celenes reforms would be more interesting.

A dalish character might favour Briala, since dalish don't care about humans and she is

the best bet get back to being Elvhen..

A Vashoth character (as well as any warrior character) would most prob. favour Gaspard,

since he is a popular military figure. Plus the military is organised, while the game is more

..chaotic in nature ^^

 

Well, I truly hope this thread catches your interest =)

 

 

*edit: Dammit, I was too slow xD I lost my chance to be the first =P

[wright1978]

Uniting Orlais via a political marriage between Celene and Gaspard is still my preference. If that ain't possible i'll probably side with Gaspard 1st time round as i came out of TME more impressed by him than Celene.

[Former_Fiend]

For me, it's a simple matter; my character will not give a toss about Orlais well being beyond the closing of the Breach. He doesn't care about the nobles getting what they want, he doesn't care about the elves getting what they want. He cares about there being a world for them to kill each other over when this is all said and done.

 

As such, if he backs either one, it will be limited to dealing with the demons and fade tears(which, of course, will give them an advantage over the other faction), and it will be based entirely on which one throws their support behind the Inquisition. Ideally, they'll both pull their heads out of their asses and help, but if not, so be it.

[Zered]

Gaspard. The man is a warrior at heart and I can respect that. I have little for monarchs like Celene.

[azarhal]

For me, it's a simple matter; my character will not give a toss about Orlais well being beyond the closing of the Breach. He doesn't care about the nobles getting what they want, he doesn't care about the elves getting what they want. He cares about there being a world for them to kill each other over when this is all said and done.

 

As such, if he backs either one, it will be limited to dealing with the demons and fade tears(which, of course, will give them an advantage over the other faction), and it will be based entirely on which one throws their support behind the Inquisition. Ideally, they'll both pull their heads out of their asses and help, but if not, so be it.

 

That's pretty much my take on it too. I don't care who sit on the throne of Orlais in the end, the place will still be a cesspool of hypocrites and backstabbers regardless of the choice.

[ladyofpayne]

Gaspsrd. He is stong, clever and he wants to stop the Game.

[Shaen Mac Tir]

Gaspsrd. He is stong, clever and he wants to stop the Game.

 

If he is anti-mage then he will obviously be anti-me as well

[The Baconer]

Gaspard is all about the game, let's not be fooled here.

[Former_Fiend]

I never got the impression Gaspard was anti-mage. He definitely wasn't pro-mage, but he was willing to ignore chantry law when it benefited him.

 

But, just to repeat, any decision I make regarding this particular conflict, or the mage templar conflict, for that matter, will not factor in the policies and politics of the various factions; I simply don't care. The only consideration will be their usefulness to me in closing the breach.

[The dead fish]

Gaspard protected an apostate, Lady Montsimmard. Just because of that, he has broken a big law of the chantry and could be arrested by the templars as Remache pointed out. Gaspard also doesn't really care about the chantry it seems, We don't know exactly where he stands on this matter. But he is probably annoyed by the war between mages and templars and he probably wants to unite everyone behind Orlais. 

[ladyofpayne]

If he is anti-mage then he will obviously be anti-me as well

He isn't. He supported apostate Lienne.

[dewayne31]

Gaspsrd. He is stong, clever and he wants to stop the Game.

 he hypercite caused he had the game too. but he want to go to war too. I'll take Celene not saying she right but the way she rightful ruler Orlais.

[Corbinus]

I'll be helping Celene. I don't give a damn how honorable the books tries to make Gaspard look, it all comes down to this:

1) It was made pretty clear that he wants to start a war and conquer other lands. Starting with Ferelden, obviously. The last thing Thedas needs is yet another war.

2) For all talk of his honor he was the one who forced Selene to crush the rebellion by spreading rumors etc.

3) He wil never do anything to help elves.

4)And lets noot fool ourselfves about him helping mages either. He kept the apostate around just because the Circle didn't support him in any way. With his deep distrust of magic, i doubt the girl would be safe after she would become useless to him.

 

I was sympathetic to Bria's cause.. until she stated she is going to prolong the war to free her people. I am all about making the life's of elves betther, but not that way.

 

Yes, Selene turned out to be not all than good. But that's Orleas, folks. No heroes of pure goodness here. And no stopping the Game, regardless of who takes the throne. And in my books Selene is way better then her cousin.

[Former_Fiend]

I still have a problem with people blaming Gaspard for Celene's actions. Gaspard spread a rumor, Celene's response was to kill three thousand people. Those two are not moral equivalents, and shy of taking her by the wrist and making her punch herself in the face, Gaspard can't "force" Celene to do anything; she made her own decision, and decided that her position and appearance was worth three thousand lives.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Neither of them appeal to me so well i won't chose any of them.I rly hope i won't be forced choose between them and can crush both...

[KendallX23]

My Qunari Inquisitor doesn't care at all for this war.Two idiots who waste resources...

The other inquisitors..well i don't know

[The dead fish]

 

4)And lets noot fool ourselfves about him helping mages either. He kept the apostate around just because the Circle didn't support him in any way. With his deep distrust of magic, i doubt the girl would be safe after she would become useless to him.

 

 

Where did you get that ? Could you elaborate ?

[Mistic]

Gaspard protected an apostate, Lady Montsimmard. Just because of that, he has broken a big law of the chantry and could be arrested by the templars as Remache pointed out. Gaspard also doesn't really care about the chantry it seems, We don't know exactly where he stands on this matter. But he is probably annoyed by the war between mages and templars and wants probably to unite everyone behind Orlais.

 

I got the feeling that Gaspard thinks that Orlais should be above the Chantry, not the other way around. A common occurence of several Holy Roman Emperors in real life.

 

I still have a problem with people blaming Gaspard for Celene's actions. Gaspard spread a rumor, Celene's response was to kill three thousand people. Those two are not moral equivalents, and shy of taking her by the wrist and making her punch herself in the face, Gaspard can't "force" Celene to do anything; she made her own decision, and decided that her position and appearance was worth three thousand lives.

 

Gaspard didn't just spread a rumour. He set an ambush and was willing to start a civil war for the throne. Celene wasn't forcing him to do that either, mind you. He made his own decision, and decided that the throne and the power were worth starting a war.

[The dead fish]

I got the feeling that Gaspard thinks that Orlais should be above the Chantry, not the other way around. A common occurence of several Holy Roman Emperors in real life.

 

 

Pretty much, and that's a big point for me. Nations and kings should be above the chantry and religious folks.

[Former_Fiend]

I got the feeling that Gaspard thinks that Orlais should be above the Chantry, not the other way around. A common occurence of several Holy Roman Emperors in real life.

 

 

Gaspard didn't just spread a rumour. He set an ambush and was willing to start a civil war for the throne. Celene wasn't forcing him to do that either, mind you. He made his own decision, and decided that the throne and the power were worth starting a war.

 

I'm not excusing Gaspard's actions. He's a warmonger, I'm not denying that. I'm just tired of people trying to absolve Celene of responsibility for the blood on her hands by blaming Gaspard for her actions.

[Cobra's_back]

My goal is to close the breach.I'm okay with working with one of the three that might help me achieve that goal.

[Cobra's_back]

I still have a problem with people blaming Gaspard for Celene's actions. Gaspard spread a rumor, Celene's response was to kill three thousand people. Those two are not moral equivalents, and shy of taking her by the wrist and making her punch herself in the face, Gaspard can't "force" Celene to do anything; she made her own decision, and decided that her position and appearance was worth three thousand lives.

 

That is how I felt about it. Excellent post.