In a situation that involves two options there should always be four choices.
A, B, Neither or Both.
Personally I don't care much for this Civil War.
But I'd love a outcome where Ferelden and Nevarra ally and tear whatever is left of Orlais apart. I know my Cousland would jump at the opportunity.
I'm not excusing Gaspard's actions. He's a warmonger, I'm not denying that. I'm just tired of people trying to absolve Celene of responsibility for the blood on her hands by blaming Gaspard for her actions.
Oh, yes, that blood is her own fault. It was a twist I didn't expect; from the preview, I thought that Gaspard would be the one crushing the elves, but not, it was Celene. Then the Empress didn't own up to her mistake and kept trying to convince Briala that hers was the only possible solution. It wasn't.
I'll probably support different groups based on the backgrounds of my Inquisitors. I think my first will support Briala, as I plan to make them an elf. Then I'll probably make a human who supports Celene and a dwarf that supports Gaspard and a Qunari who tries to unite them, once I'm more familiar with the game and consequences for certain decisions.
Briala because the city elves are the most oppressed... Alternatively Celene because she is a politician and a realist to the tip of her toes.
Briala because the city elves are the most oppressed... Alternatively Celene because she is a politician and a realist to the tip of her toes.
Yes. Slay 3000 elves and think that they will support her anyway. Very realistic.
Yes. Slay 3000 elves and think that they will support her anyway. Very realistic.
C'est realpolitik, ma cherie...
C'est realpolitik, ma cherie...
..that looks strange.. a German word within a French sentence on an English forum... @_@
But anyways, I still think what Gaspard is doing is also "realpolitik" just a very VERY different kind of it.
Admittedly, it is the politik of a junta, but it juntas can work -and I actually care more for the poorer people.
Like Gaspard said, they are more interested in a warm house and a full stomach than in a nobels vision of freedom - or
to quote Brecht: "Food first, then morality."
Stalin didn't quite say: "One dead elf is a tragedy, one million is a statistic"!
Stalin didn't quite say: "One dead elf is a tragedy, one million is a statistic"!
Just because we cannot grasp the demise of thousands of people, we should never accept such as
a legitime method.
It is also a different thing if two armies clash (soldiers should be aware what will be there work and fate)
or to burn a slum full of people who are mostly innocent of the thing that started the punishment!
I will support Celene. I will disgrace both Gaspard and Michel.
Just because we cannot grasp the demise of thousands of people, we should never accept such as
a legitime method.
It is also a different thing if two armies clash (soldiers should be aware what will be there work and fate)
or to burn a slum full of people who are mostly innocent of the thing that started the punishment!
Ah, I am just playing devil's advocate! As I said above my first choice would be Briala.
Stalin didn't quite say: "One dead elf is a tragedy, one million is a statistic"!
But Celene's problem is that elves will support her after that. Yes, just after she destroyed 3000 of them. She is fool as Cercei I think.
Like Gaspard said, they are more interested in a warm house and a full stomach than in a nobels vision of freedom - or
to quote Brecht: "Food first, then morality."
Yes, he is better option for everyone.
I think I would support neither of them. Maybe there will be a third path like in DAO you could choose Anora, Alistair, both of them or marry one of them and become king/queen yourself.
Some people seem to forget that the elves led a rebellion against her . considering what would have happened in medieval times compared to what Celene did her response is mild not to mention she at first tried to calm the situation by killing the noble that was responsible for the mistreatment of the elves. Gaspard forced her hand however and she was forced to choose between 2 bad choices.
Even with all the backstabbing in the game Celene is intend to create peace between nations Gaspard , while a honourable bad ass will likely start a war between Fereldan or Nevera
Some people seem to forget that the elves led a rebellion against her . considering what would have happened in medieval times compared to what Celene did her response is mild not to mention she at first tried to calm the situation by killing the noble that was responsible for the mistreatment of the elves. Gaspard forced her hand however and she was forced to choose between 2 bad choices.
Even with all the backstabbing in the game Celene is intend to create peace between nations Gaspard , while a honourable bad ass will likely start a war between Fereldan or Nevera
A war with Nevarra is given if Celene wins - if I remember correctly it is stated within the first third. It is a bid harder to say what will
happen when Gaspard wins, will he invade Ferelden or Nevarra? Since I seriously doubt he thinks he can do both at once.
A lot of people seem to forget that Celene is no pacifist, if going to war suits her, she WILL do so.
But this point is kinda lost thanks to Inquisition, since Orlais seems to be the primary setting.
I mean, the breaches PLUS two simultaneous civil wars with the top of the chantry dead? Even if you end
the crisis, Orlais will be severely weakened after that, thus no war plan is going to happen anytime soon.
A war with Nevarra is given if Celene wins - if I remember correctly it is stated within the first third. It is a bid harder to say what will
happen when Gaspard wins, will he invade Ferelden or Nevarra? Since I seriously doubt he thinks he can do both at once.
A lot of people seem to forget that Celene is no pacifist, if going to war suits her, she WILL do so.
Celene is a pacifist for Thedosian standards. Nevarra is mentioned in the terms of "Nevarran aggression"; the last time those two countries went to war, it was Nevarra who attacked and took a chunk of land from Orlais. Celene is convinced that the Nevarrans will try again sooner or later. A political marriage with Cailan would have bolstered Orlais' forces.
It's telling that Gaspard always mentions Ferelden in his plans for war and never Navarra. Maybe it's because Ferelden is weakened after the Blight, while Nevarra is a rising power that wouldn't be so easy to subdue.
Gaspard never mentioned he wanted war with Nevarra, just Ferelden. I definitely don't see where people get that he would attack them. And Celene is worried about the hungry Nevarra which indeed won the last battle between their countries years ago. I wonder if the Nevarrans will take the opportunity of taking Orlesian lands thanks to the civil war.
It's telling that Gaspard always mentions Ferelden in his plans for war and never Navarra. Maybe it's because Ferelden is weakened after the Blight, while Nevarra is a rising power that wouldn't be so easy to subdue.
I think this mostly show that Gaspard is not a long term planner. It's like he forgot all about the rich opportunist warmongers north of him that are just waiting for Orlais to be military busy elsewhere to expand again. The last war between Nevarra and Orlais happened when Orlais was trying to subdue Ferelden for example (note: Nevarra was not just expanding toward Orlais at the time). On her side, Celene is worried about Nevarra, but we do not really know the reasons beside aggression (she received too many marriage demands from Nevarrans?).
I personally think that someone is/was trying to get Nevarra/Orlais/Ferelden trapped in a war, that is what Leliana's song DLC suggest at least...
Gaspard is a brillant military mind, I'd trust him to strenghten Orlais and defend the empire against any external enemy. I think it's also even possible that he can bring more respect to Orlais if he becomes emperor, to the point the nevarrans could even hesitate to attack.
Gaspard is a brillant military mind, I'd trust him to strenghten Orlais and defend the empire against any external enemy. I think it's also even possible that he can bring more respect to Orlais if he becomes emperor, to the point the nevarrans could even hesitate to attack.
I think so too. Maybe it's true he's not a good long term planner, but I think that's because of his optimism. As he said, he doesn't plan to lose. The problem is, he can lose. Probably thought that after conquering Ferelden he could use the country's sources to defeat any other enemy, not to talk about the war being enough of a common escape for Templars and Mages to stop trying to kill each other.
Murphy's Law tells us that, even without a conspirator in the shadows, that would be the time for Nevarra to attack, the Fereldans would fight back the occupation (again) and the Templar-Mage war would still break out.
Murphy's Law tells us that, even without a conspirator in the shadows, that would be the time for Nevarra to attack, the Fereldans would fight back the occupation (again) and the Templar-Mage war would still break out.
Indeed. But would it offer a good result to Nevarra ? That is the question. 
Indeed. But would it offer a good result to Nevarra ? That is the question.
What does Orlais stand to gain from another Fereldan occupation?
What does Orlais stand to gain from another Fereldan occupation?
You misunderstood. I meant that yes, Nevarra could take the opportunity to attack Orlais, but this adventurism is dangerous. Will there be good results for Nevarra or will they be pushed back to the boundaries ? Orlais is a powerful empire. Why did they lose Ferelden ? Mainly because the Emperor Florian didn't want to bring reinforcements to Meghren. There were only a few Orlesian legions in Ferelden.
Orlais can fight on both fronts on a full scale war.
Orlais can fight on both fronts on a full scale war.
In ideal conditions, probably. After both TME and the events of Inquisition, no.
Of course, I do believe Gaspard would be smart enough to abandon his plan to invade Fereldan after this rather unfortunate series of events.
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