77 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Vashoth, to my knowledge, does not mean "never introduced to the Qun". It simply means that they don't exist within it for one reason or another.

 

Vashoth is to Tal-Vashoth as agnostic is to atheist, is my understanding. Can you provide a source that a Vashoth is specifically ignorant of the Qun?

Vashoth are Qunari who don't follow the Qun, thus they are not recognized as Qunari by Qunari. It just so happens this Vashoth was born a Vashoth.

 

And no, Tal-Vashoth are Vashoth who violently fight against the Qun while Vashoth simply don't follow it. 

[Chari]

What if the female in question is a mage though? Is she chained up deep in Qunari lands, or do they use her - as they do male mages - in the outside world with "magemaster" (arvaarad?) for military purposes?

Mostly qunari fight against Tevinter. There is no war between qunari and Fereldan or Orlais
Even so, one of the reasons why talvashoth become violent is their inability to adapt. They have been soldiers their whole life, they don't know anything else.
Qunari mages are even more strictly brought up
Not saying it is impossible, but it still would be a rare case

[MisanthropePrime]

Vashoth are Qunari who don't follow the Qun, thus they are not recognized as Qunari by Qunari. It just so happens this Vashoth was born a Vashoth.

 

And no, Tal-Vashoth are Vashoth who violently fight against the Qun while Vashoth simply don't follow it. 

Where is your evidence that this specific vashoth was born a vashoth, then?

 

Also, that's pretty much what I meant. A vashoth doesn't care about the Qun, a tal-vashoth actively fights it (even if they don't do so physically, RE Armaas). An agnostic does not care about gods or religion, an atheist actively rejects them.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Where is your evidence that this specific vashoth was born a vashoth, then?

 

Also, that's pretty much what I meant. A vashoth doesn't care about the Qun, a tal-vashoth actively fights it (even if they don't do so physically, RE Armaas). An agnostic does not care about gods or religion, an atheist actively rejects them.

I posted it from the wiki:

Race selection determines the Inquisitor's background.

• Qunari Inquisitor is a Vashoth, a Qunari who was never introduced to the Qun.

[The Ascendant]

Please let's not let this deteriorate into ANOTHER Qunari/Talk Vasoth debacle. Can we refocus on the Origin of our Qunari Inquisitor?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Please let's not let this deteriorate into ANOTHER Qunari/Talk Vasoth debacle. Can we refocus on the Origin of our Qunari Inquisitor?

I think you mean Kossith/Qunari, and this will not be that.

 

We are discussing the origin.

[Ammonite]

While I don't think they'd go that route, imagine if they went the Kung-Fu Panda route and made her parents a completely different race like elves or dwarves, and then never actually bring it up lol.

[MisanthropePrime]

 

I posted it from the wiki:

Race selection determines the Inquisitor's background.

• Qunari Inquisitor is a Vashoth, a Qunari who was never introduced to the Qun.

 

That is the first time I've ever seen that definition of "Vashoth". I need something more concrete than the wiki: I need a developer or some other official source stating that Vashoth means born outside of or never introduced to the Qun, rather than simply not being part of it.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

While I don't think they'd go that route, imagine if they went the Kung-Fu Panda route and made her parents a completely different race like elves or dwarves, and then never actually bring up why that's the case lol.

"I just learned my father isn't my father."

 

"Your father...the goose."

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That is the first time I've ever seen that definition of "Vashoth". I need something more concrete than the wiki: I need a developer or some other official source stating that Vashoth means born outside of or never introduced to the Qun, rather than simply not being part of it.

What else would they be called? 

 

Qunari are those who follow the Qun, regardless of race.

Vashoth are those of the Qunari race who don't follow the Qun.

Bas are those of non-Qunari races who don't follow the Qun. 

[MisanthropePrime]

What else would they be called? 

 

Qunari are those who follow the Qun, regardless of race.

Vashoth are those of the Qunari race who don't follow the Qun.

Bas are those of non-Qunari races who don't follow the Qun. 

Do we need a specific term for the who aren't born into the Qun?

 

The reason I think that the PC will just be someone who isn't PART of the Qun is because that leaves it open to the player to be able to pick their relationship with the Qun. That way you can personally determine whether you left it or were never part of it to begin with.

[Sifr]

Women do not go to the army. Army is a branch of the trio which is responsible for interaction with the outside world. Smiths and even priests often stay at home or in recently conquered lands, but neither Fereldan or Orlais is one. Some must have went with Arishok mission but they all drowned.

 

Exactly, Qunari women never serve in the Antaam alongside their male kinsmen. They can however become spies and assassins, since that falls under the jurisdiction of the priesthood, so nearly all Qunari women (or female converts to the Qun such as Tallis) that we see outside of Par Vollen are members of the Ben-Hassrath. Further unlike the military, the priesthood is not exlusive only to one gender, but open to both men and women, so you can have male members of the Ben-Hassrath. If Hawke joined the Qun for instance, both genders could be assigned this role, something which is implied a few times by Qunari characters in DA2.

 

However, I disagree that their were females with the Arishok, since that's essentially two branches at work. He's the leader of the military, so he's got no responsibility towards any member of the Ben-Hassrath, nor any reason to have them aboard his ship. It's possible that they did go along and he simply didn't bother to save any of them from drowning (since it's not his role, so not his problem), but if some of the men in the Qunari compound are Ben-Hassrath who went along, why they didn't save any of their female comrades? It therefore makes more sense that it was solely a military operation.

 

That is the first time I've ever seen that definition of "Vashoth". I need something more concrete than the wiki: I need a developer or some other official source stating that Vashoth means born outside of or never introduced to the Qun, rather than simply not being part of it.

 

Didn't the above poster already provide an official source straight from the developers own mouth (you can't get any more Word of God than Gaider), where he posted that he asked Mary Kirby about it and she gave the definition of Vashoth as being a "Qunari born outside the Qun."

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Do we need a specific term for the who aren't born into the Qun?

 

The reason I think that the PC will just be someone who isn't PART of the Qun is because that leaves it open to the player to be able to pick their relationship with the Qun. That way you can personally determine whether you left it or were never part of it to begin with.

Then why are you asking for a term? 

 

A Qun following Qunari can not be the Inquisitior. It goes against the Qun. That's why the limiter is in place.

[MisanthropePrime]

Didn't the above poster already provide an official source straight from the developers own mouth (you can't get any more Word of God than Gaider), where he posted that he asked Mary Kirby about it and she gave the definition of Vashoth as being a "Qunari born outside the Qun."

Did they? If so I didn't see it. I saw a link to the wiki, but that's it.

 

 

 

Then why are you asking for a term? 

 

A Qun following Qunari can not be the Inquisitior. It goes against the Qun. That's why the limiter is in place.

I'm not asking for them to be in the Qun at all. What I'm suggesting is that Bioware will leave the reason your Qunari isn't in the Qun up in the air for the player to decide, rather than locking it down to "you were born outside of it."

[Sifr]

Then why are you asking for a term? 

 

A Qun following Qunari can not be the Inquisitior. It goes against the Qun. That's why the limiter is in place.

 

Yeah, the Qunari wouldn't have Inquisitors, much like they don't have any Wardens, it's simply not a role that they have in their society. The closest would be an Ashkaari (one who seeks), but that would describe Cassandra than the role that the Inquisitor plays.

 

Plus, we're being assigned as the Inquisitor at the start of the game, whereas if we were subject to the Qun, we'd already have long been assigned a role that we were required to follow, one which we could not easily change, if at all. While Tallis both loses and regains her role and rank in Redemption, it's suggested that she never stops being part of the Ben-Hassrath, simply reassigned within the larger confines of that order. Much like how Sten goes from being a Vanguard to becoming the new Arishok, he's still in the Antaam and has simply been moved up the ranks to the head honcho.

 

Or more simpy;

 

A Qunari following the Qun could not be an Inquisitor.

A Tal-Vashoth could be an Inquisitor, but would not want to be one since they reject roles entirely.

 

And a Kossith could only be an Inquisitor if you dug up their bones and propped their skeleton up in a suit of armour, since anyone belonging to that society is ancient, dead and gone.

 

_{(They've passed on! They are no more! They've has ceased to be! They've expired and gone to meet their maker! They've kicked the bucket, shuffled off the mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile! They are an ex-Kossith!)}

 

 

Did they? If so I didn't see it. I saw a link to the wiki, but that's it.

 

 

 

I'm not asking for them to be in the Qun at all. What I'm suggesting is that Bioware will leave the reason your Qunari isn't in the Qun up in the air for the player to decide, rather than locking it down to "you were born outside of it."

 

Well click on that link and read it, it's providing the answer! But if you won't take the wiki for it's word (and hey, wikis can be edited by anyone, so I understand any reticence on your part) that poster also provided another quote from the developers saying exactly why you're not a member of the Qun.

 

That quote is already in this thread, just go back to the previous page.

 

We don't have to come up with any reason when we're starting a new game, Bioware has kindly given us one already.

[Hizoku]

 

 

I'm not asking for them to be in the Qun at all. What I'm suggesting is that Bioware will leave the reason your Qunari isn't in the Qun up in the air for the player to decide, rather than locking it down to "you were born outside of it."

well, seeing as we'll be getting race specific backgrounds (from what i've read/heard), i doubt there will be much for us to speculate regarding our Inquisitor's origins.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Did they? If so I didn't see it. I saw a link to the wiki, but that's it.

From Gaider: Mary tells me that the PC would technically just be Vashoth. Either way, it's a distinction that's only going to be relevant to the Qunari themselves. Everyone else will simply say "Qunari", no matter where you were born. 

 

 

 

I'm not asking for them to be in the Qun at all. What I'm suggesting is that Bioware will leave the reason your Qunari isn't in the Qun up in the air for the player to decide, rather than locking it down to "you were born outside of it."

They are giving us more predefined backstories. For example, you can only be a Dalish Elf.

[MisanthropePrime]

I know that the playable PC is going to be Vashoth. What I'm disagreeing with is your assumption that Vashoth="Born outside of the Qun". You've yet to provide evidence for that claim.

[Sifr]

I know that the playable PC is going to be Vashoth. What I'm disagreeing with is your assumption that Vashoth="Born outside of the Qun". You've yet to provide evidence for that claim.

 

We're going in circles here, you're pulling a Carroll's paradox on us aren't you, where each proof we provide ends with you refuting it to us and asking for proof, causing us to add more proofs and falling into infinite regress...

 

But here;

 

http://forum.bioware...ally/?bioware=1

 

Yes, it doesn't say "Born outside the Qun" in that many words, but that's what it means. We're don't follow the Qun, we never were part of the Qun, we have no affiliation to the Qun, those who are members of the Qun and we can state whole-heartedly before this Senate Committee that we are not or have never been a Qunmunist...

 

... sorry, I think I might have drifted into a McCarthyism era flashback for a second there at the end.

 

[MisanthropePrime]

We're going in circles here, you're pulling a Carroll's paradox on us aren't you, where each proof we provide ends with you refuting it to us and asking for proof, causing us to add more proofs and falling into infinite regress...

 

But here;

 

http://forum.bioware...ally/?bioware=1

 

Yes, it doesn't say "Born outside the Qun" in that many words, but that's what it means. We're don't follow the Qun, we never were part of the Qun, we have no affiliation to the Qun, those who are members of the Qun and we can state whole-heartedly before this Senate Committee that we are not or have never been a Qunmunist...

 

... sorry, I think I might have drifted into a McCarthyism era flashback for a second there at the end.

 

I've yet to see a piece of evidence that indicates that the Qunari PC was either born out of the Qun nor has any past within the Qun. Vashoth just means that they're not currently part of the Qun, it does not preclude a past affiliation with it.

[Clockwork_Wings]

I like the idea of two qunai who abandoned the qun because they fell in love.

[Sifr]

I've yet to see a piece of evidence that indicates that the Qunari PC was either born out of the Qun nor has any past within the Qun. Vashoth just means that they're not currently part of the Qun, it does not preclude a past affiliation with it.

 

From a story standpoint, Bioware have implied that giving us a former background within the Qun would be too limiting within the confines of the game. As a Vashoth we have never been a follower of the Qun and so our interaction with any Qunari forces we encounter will simply make us akin to a Bas in their eyes, someone that they'll dislike but tolerate (for the moment).

 

As a Tal-Vashoth however, we will have actively rejected the Qun, which is an affront to them. I can't imagine that we'd have any dealings with Qunari forces that will end in anything other than bloodshed, since they hunt them down and kill them on sight.

 

While I'm not a member of Bioware, so I can't say for certain, they seem to have intimated that while your race will cause some mistrust from various groups, having the Qunari be handicapped by being constantly forced to be deal with followers of the Qun trying to kill them, would be unfair to the player and make us lose content that we'd be able to have with the other races.

 

It'd be like in Origins, if the Dalish treaty couldn't be completed because all the Dalish were hostile and tried to immediately kill you, simply for being human. You'd begrudge the developers for not allowing us to play the same level as everyone else.

 

Hence why I think that making us a Vashoth is a smart move, someone who will probably be tolerated by other Qunari and neutral in their conflict. Bioware have said they don't want us to be forced to follow the Qun, so why should we have to deal with the baggage that being a former member entails?

[KainD]

Inquisitor is not a Vashoth, but a Tal-Vashoth. 

[AresKeith]

Inquisitor is not a Vashoth, but a Tal-Vashoth.

From Gaider, "Mary tells me that the PC would technically just be Vashoth. Either way, it's a distinction that's only going to be relevant to the Qunari themselves. Everyone else will simply say "Qunari", no matter where you were born."

[DRTJR]

Here is a easier solution, The QunQuisitor's dad is an Aaravad who started to have feelings for his Sarebas(female) so he got them deployed to fight Tevinter but instead booked it with Sarebas in toe eventualy the found other Tal-Vashoth and had kids, if the QunQuisitor is a Mage then your mom trained you, if your not somebody else did.