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You ever wonder why RPG's are dumbed down? This video is the answer


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#76
A Crusty Knight Of Colour

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Idiot or not, clearly this guy's doing something right if he's managed to turn playing video games badly on YouTube into a legitimate career.

Although personally I've never gotten the appeal of watching other people play games on the internet myself.

 

 

:wub:



#77
Endurium

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I miss the mystery of firing up a new game which required me to figure everything out on my own (80s and 90s). Was always such an epic feeling when I completed such games after making maps, writing my own codex, and *thinking for myself*, etc.


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#78
In Exile

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I miss the mystery of firing up a new game which required me to figure everything out on my own (80s and 90s). Was always such an epic feeling when I completed such games after making maps, writing my own codex, and *thinking for myself*, etc.

 

I always hated the cartography aspect. 



#79
Cyonan

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I miss the mystery of firing up a new game which required me to figure everything out on my own (80s and 90s). Was always such an epic feeling when I completed such games after making maps, writing my own codex, and *thinking for myself*, etc.

 

The thing is that there is a fine line between figuring things out on your own and the game just being poorly designed. A lot of older RPGs liked to jump back and forth along that line, but nostalgia dictates that we only remember the good things about the past.

 

For example, recently playing through Baldur's Gate I was not explained anything about the actual underlying mechanics of combat, and I haven't seen any tools within the game that might let me find that out on my own. The game simply expects that you go in knowing the D&D ruleset that it uses(which is heavily outdated these days).

 

Trying to figure out all the little tactics in combat felt more like I was fighting the game design rather than figuring things out on my own, which ultimately is more annoying than epic.

 

I've got it figured out but it wouldn't kill anybody if the game had simply explained the messed up THAC0 system, especially considering that it goes against common sense.


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#80
Endurium

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The thing is that there is a fine line between figuring things out on your own and the game just being poorly designed. A lot of older RPGs liked to jump back and forth along that line, but nostalgia dictates that we only remember the good things about the past.

 

For example, recently playing through Baldur's Gate I was not explained anything about the actual underlying mechanics of combat, and I haven't seen any tools within the game that might let me find that out on my own. The game simply expects that you go in knowing the D&D ruleset that it uses(which is heavily outdated these days).

 

Trying to figure out all the little tactics in combat felt more like I was fighting the game design rather than figuring things out on my own, which ultimately is more annoying than epic.

 

I've got it figured out but it wouldn't kill anybody if the game had simply explained the messed up THAC0 system, especially considering that it goes against common sense.

I'm not one for nostalgia; when discussing games with my friends I will praise my favorites while also warning about their flaws.

 

Had you asked me about Baldur's Gate (a game I enjoy but find a bit slow-paced) before playing it, I would have warned you that it requires basic knowledge of AD&D 2 to understand the combat system. The game's manual is useful, but a Players Handbook is recommended. Games back then were designed for gamers, not for mass audiences.



#81
bussinrounds

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The thing is that there is a fine line between figuring things out on your own and the game just being poorly designed. A lot of older RPGs liked to jump back and forth along that line, but nostalgia dictates that we only remember the good things about the past.

 

For example, recently playing through Baldur's Gate I was not explained anything about the actual underlying mechanics of combat, and I haven't seen any tools within the game that might let me find that out on my own. The game simply expects that you go in knowing the D&D ruleset that it uses(which is heavily outdated these days).

 

Trying to figure out all the little tactics in combat felt more like I was fighting the game design rather than figuring things out on my own, which ultimately is more annoying than epic.

 

I've got it figured out but it wouldn't kill anybody if the game had simply explained the messed up THAC0 system, especially considering that it goes against common sense.

RTFM…It's all there, as far as the d&d mechanics/rules that apply to the game.

 

Outdated hmm..  So what's fashionable these days, shitty mmo mechanics like DAO had ?



#82
SlottsMachine

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*Shots Fired. 



#83
Il Divo

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RTFM…It's all there, as far as the d&d mechanics/rules that apply to the game.

 

Outdated hmm..  So what's fashionable these days, shitty mmo mechanics like DAO had ?

 

Considering DnD 2.0 employed THAC0 and Vancian Casting, I don't think you have much of an argument.



#84
bussinrounds

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What's the matter, no KOOLDOWNS or AGGRO ? 



#85
Mr.House

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DA:O had some impossible moments on Normal difficulty.

lol



#86
Cyonan

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I'm not one for nostalgia; when discussing games with my friends I will praise my favorites while also warning about their flaws.

 

Had you asked me about Baldur's Gate (a game I enjoy but find a bit slow-paced) before playing it, I would have warned you that it requires basic knowledge of AD&D 2 to understand the combat system. The game's manual is useful, but a Players Handbook is recommended. Games back then were designed for gamers, not for mass audiences.

 

Baldur's Gate was merely an example. There are a lot of older games that fail to explain or give you the tools to find out about the mechanics of the game, and a number of them are only loosely based on D&D rules.

 

I would also call anybody who does a decent amount of gaming a gamer, not just people who do very specific things.

 

but whatever you feel like calling it, I call it poor game design to expect people to have played an entirely different game in order to understand your mechanics. Explain your own mechanics in your own game.

 

That is why I find it hard to take a lot of the "games are all dumbed down!" crowd seriously. Not that they don't have some valid points, but a lot of what they're complaining about just sounds like companies are using better game design these days.

 

RTFM…It's all there, as far as the d&d mechanics/rules that apply to the game.

 

Outdated hmm..  So what's fashionable these days, shitty mmo mechanics like DAO had ?

 

When I said outdated I meant that it's using a ruleset that was created 25 years ago and has had numerous versions created after it.



#87
Susty Randusky

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Can't we stop the bickering and all agree that DSP is a moron?
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#88
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Can't we stop the bickering and all agree that DSP is a moron?

No.



#89
Susty Randusky

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No.

oi tats m8 uve rustled my jameses 1 2 many times



#90
Kaiser Arian XVII

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Somehow related to this thread

 

432q.jpg



#91
A Crusty Knight Of Colour

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oi tats m8 uve rustled my jameses 1 2 many times

fite me irl m8 ill rek u



#92
Susty Randusky

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fite me irl m8 ill rek u

wot u sayin m8 u aint even part of this



#93
Il Divo

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What's the matter, no KOOLDOWNS or AGGRO ? 

 

Nope. Just can't stand crappyy mechanics. Hence why I laugh at Vancian Casting. Sorry that you're so butt hurt about it.



#94
Susty Randusky

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Can't we stop the bickering and all agree that DSP is a moron?

Take my advice



#95
Guest_JujuSamedi_*

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I think this advent of dumb gamers simply means game developers need to amp up their game tutorial systems instead of meeting those players at the bottom where they wont actually experience the game.
 
Look at fighting games for example. The gap between a newbie and someone who understands the mechanics are HUGE. But theres nothing in the previous generations of games that explain to the newbies what the people who know how to play the game who actually know. Things are fortunately changing now thanks to games like KI2014 or hopefully USF4 but the fact remains.
 
Most people dont know about Wake-ups, frametraps or cancelling. But theyre crucial in actually playing the game.
 
This guy doesnt know things we take for granted. He doesnt know how to play tactically. Hes been forcefed games where you press an easy button to win the game and it really shows. Its all he knows.


Well look at it this way. If you have software, one of the most important parts of it is teaching/guiding your clients on how to use your product. This is because the product is useless if nobody can actually use it. Tutorial serve that purpose because and act as a digital teacher educating you through different mechanics. These turtorials come in two common forms, an npc who is spouting out commands or a prompt that has information on the steps. What determines how good these turtorials are is an education question. It is asking how do we effectively teach people how to play games.

Another issue is the domain of increased input permutations in console gaming. My first game ever had a 2 button input. Symbolically it is easy to figure out what the game does by trying out all of the buttons because of the domain of input permutations. It is really not that much. These days games are operating on more complex combinations. This makes teaching a person much more difficult if more content is present. How do you walk through everyone of your mechanics without boring your user? My favorite methods is through an unwritten set of standard that some genres conform to. If you play need for speed and then switch to another car game, you will probably be familiar with the controls. There is an unwritten standard which states that the right trigger is accelerating while the left one is breaking. Same with games like call of duty vs another shooter. The right trigger is shooting and the left is zooming in. There is that unwritten set of standards. If developers employ more of this, there will be more familiarity across games. Problem is the industry is so disjoint which is weird for a software industry.

Now, where do more complications come in? This is when you realize that the game pad is not the only input mechanism out there. I would argue that in terms of familiarity, the gamepad is one of the most inefficient methods out there. Let us have an example, a fighting game/racing game. If you take someone who has never played games and you introduce them to gesture based inputs vs game pads they will probably be better off in gestures. Gestures are pseudo natural, pad inputs are something that ha to be learned time and time again. It is easier to say "pretend you are in a car" than "press this to do this" more relativity on the game part. What is the problem with gestures though? The culture behind it, the environment and the efficiency from a technical perspective.

To elaborate on the environment of gesture, if somebody was playing a game in a virtual environment they would achieve more interactivith through gestures. Gestures would give them the illusion of actually being in the enviroment and interacting with it. One could even "get lost in the game" but the moment they are using their pad, it is a reminder that there is still this layer of interactivity and virtualization..

Sorry for the long text