448 réponses à ce sujet

[Nocte ad Mortem]

If game don't have gay romance, then maybe Bioware games just aren't for you. To claim that Bioware has been unfair to gay gamers is kind of ludicrous.Water is wet. You can't ever please anyone, ever. If all 9 companions are gay, gay people still complain it's not enough, If all 9 companions are straight female straight male still find something to complain.

Sure, if there weren't any same sex romances, maybe Bioware games wouldn't be for me. However, Bioware has taken a firm stance towards inclusion and their staff have made it clear on multiple occasions that their games are also for me. 

[AlanC9]

If game don't have gay romance, then maybe Bioware games just aren't for you. To claim that Bioware has been unfair to gay gamers is kind of ludicrous.Water is wet. You can't ever please anyone, ever. If all 9 companions are gay, gay people still complain it's not enough, If all 9 companions are straight female straight male still find something to complain.

Wait.... so it's just as silly for straight male players to complain that things are unfair as it is for gay players to complain?

And what on earth are you trying to say with the first sentence?

[daveliam]

Yeah. It's not really a fair comparison to say that people who haven't even been included in half of the games with romance content have the same complaints as people who have had multiple romance options in every game (except KOTOR) but just don't find the LIs attractive. One group has access to content but just doesn't like it. The other group doesn't even have access to that content more times than not..... Not the same complaint

Oh, and to the point about gay people still complaining if all the companions were gay: I guess we'll have to wait to see if that's the case or not. We've never had this happen and, I'm pretty sure, never will so it's a moot point. What HAS happened is that we've had entire rosters of companions where NO ONE has openly identified as gay, lesbian, bisexual, etc. That HAS happened, numerous times actually.....

[Mockingword]

If game don't have gay romance, then maybe Bioware games just aren't for you. To claim that Bioware has been unfair to gay gamers is kind of ludicrous.Water is wet. You can't ever please anyone, ever. If all 9 companions are gay, gay people still complain it's not enough, If all 9 companions are straight female straight male still find something to complain.

Games that treat me as a subhuman might just "not be for me"? Thanks for tip. I dunno what we gays would do without heterosexuals to instruct us.

 

Gay people would complain even if BioWare made a game that catered to them exclusively? As opposed to straight gamers, who apparently shower every single BioWare game with endless praise?

 

Somebody just shoot me now.

[Sequin]

I don't think I'd be complaining if all the companions were gay. Well, actually, I probably would help complain... but it wouldn't be for me but for all the straight players who would be missing out and getting passed over. But I'm pretty sure this hypothetical will never happen with a triple A title in my lifetime and so it's a baseless point.

I'm not even really complaining now. I just would like to know what the actual in-game options are for LI. So far, even the two "reveals" haven't clarified this. It's great that Cass is a LI... but is she an LI for my PC or just the ManQuisitor?

[The Elder King]

Games that treat me as a subhuman might just "not be for me"? Thanks for tip. I dunno what we gays would do without heterosexuals to instruct us.
 
Gay people would complain even if BioWare made a game that catered to them exclusively? As opposed to straight gamers, who apparently shower every single BioWare game with endless praise?
 
Somebody just shoot me now.

I might be reading his post wrong, but in his last sentence he said that straight males would complain even if all 9 companions were straight females.

[Mockingword]

Pffft. I'm sure straight gamers would survive getting "passed over" by one game.

 

They're on their own.

[The Elder King]

Pffft. I'm sure straight gamers would survive getting "passed over" by one game.
 
They're on their own.

As a straight male, I already said I wouldn't have a problem if Bioware ever makes a game with a full gay roster. My enjoyment of it would depend on the quality of it, not the characters' sexualities.

[Mockingword]

I don't really put much stock in what people say about how they would feel or act in a hypothetical situation that they will never, ever, face.

[The Elder King]

I don't really put much stock in what people say about how they would feel or act in a hypothetical situation that they will never, ever, face.

Fair enough. Without knowing someone, there's no way to know if what they post here are really their opinions either.

[XMissWooX]

I wouldn't want any players getting 'passed over' in DAI.

It needn't be a 'them or us' situation, taking content from one group to give to another. We should all get equal content.

[Sequin]

Pffft. I'm sure straight gamers would survive getting "passed over" by one game.

They're on their own.

Well of course they'd survive. But, as I said, it's a baseless/pointless thing to think about because it will never happen (in my lifetime, at least). How any of us would react is left to the winds of the eternal unknown.

[daveliam]

As a straight male, I already said I wouldn't have a problem if Bioware ever makes a game with a full gay roster. My enjoyment of it would depend on the quality of it, not the characters' sexualities.

I don't really put much stock in what people say about how they would feel or act in a hypothetical situation that they will never, ever, face.

 

I think that some of the people who make statements like this really genuinely think that they mean it.  The issue for me isn't that it was just "a game" without gay options.  It was 6 out of 10 games without gay options.

 

Just imagine this scenario:

DA: I (2014) - all gay options; no straight options

ME 4 (2015)- all gay options; no straight options

DA 4  (2016) - all gay options; no straight options

New Franchise 1 Game 1 (2017) - all gay options; no straight options

New Franchise 2 Game 1 (2018)  - mostly gay options; one straight option

New Franchise 1 Game 2  (2019) - mostly gay options; one straight option

 

New Franchise 2 Game 2 (2020) - all bisexual options; so both straight and gay players have multiple choices

New Franchise 1 Game 3 (2021) - they announce that they aren't doing all bisexual options anymore and are going back "a variety of sexualities"

 

Don't you think that straight people would have a problem with this scenario?  And that in New Franchise 1 Game 3 forums, they would make threads asking for more straight options?  And don't you think a gay person saying, "Meh, I'd be fine if there weren't gay options" probably wouldn't be much of a comfort?

[Sequin]

Brilliantly put, daveliam.

[Mockingword]

Fair enough. Without knowing someone, there's no way to know if what they post here are really their opinions either.

Well, I don't think people really know themselves well enough to make such definite judgements. That's why I hate hypothetical moral puzzles and think they are stupid.

 

Like, would I eat a baby if I was starving to death? How should I know? How does anybody know what they'll do if they haven't actually been in that situation, and likely never will be?

[The Elder King]

I think that some of the people who make statements like this really genuinely think that they mean it.  The issue for me isn't that it was just "a game" without gay options.  It was 6 out of 10 games without gay options.
 
Just imagine this scenario:
DA: I (2014) - all gay options; no straight options
ME 4 (2015)- all gay options; no straight options
DA 4  (2016) - all gay options; no straight options
New Franchise 1 Game 1 (2017) - all gay options; no straight options
New Franchise 2 Game 1 (2018)  - mostly gay options; one straight option
New Franchise 1 Game 2  (2019) - mostly gay options; one straight option
 
New Franchise 2 Game 2 (2020) - all bisexual options; so both straight and gay players have multiple choices
New Franchise 1 Game 3 (2021) - they announce that they aren't doing all bisexual options anymore and are going back "a variety of sexualities"
 
Don't you think that straight people would have a problem with this scenario?  And that in New Franchise 1 Game 3 forums, they would make threads asking for more straight options?  And don't you think a gay person saying, "Meh, I'd be fine if there weren't gay options" probably wouldn't be much of a comfort?

I'd say the near majority would have a problem (to put it mildly). But I honestly wouldn't.
Though I think that I didn't explain myself well. I was just responding to Mockingword's post on straight gamers surviving bring 'passed over' for a game. I was in no way saying that since I'm fine with it, there isn't a problem with gay having less or none LI. I fully support having equal number of choices between straights and homosexuals. I was just expressing my personal opinion on a eventual game without straight romances.

[The Elder King]

Well, I don't think people really know themselves well enough to make such definite judgements. That's why I hate hypothetical moral puzzles and think they are stupid.
 
Like, would I eat a baby if I was starving to death? How should I know? How does anybody know what they'll do if they haven't actually been in that situation, and likely never will be?

I partially agree. You're talking about an extreme situation. Playing a games (of a series of games) isn't on the same level of your example.

[daveliam]

I'd say the near majority would have a problem (to put it mildly). But I honestly wouldn't.
Though I think that I didn't explain myself well. I was just responding to Mockingword's post on straight gamers surviving bring 'passed over' for a game. I was in no way saying that since I'm fine with it, there isn't a problem with gay having less or none LI. I fully support having equal number of choices between straights and homosexuals. I was just expressing my personal opinion on a eventual game without straight romances.

 

Yeah, it was more of a rhetorical question, to be honest.  I wasn't directly challenging your statement, although it might have seemed that way because I included your quote in the message.  Sorry if I wasn't clear.  I think that most straight players would have a major issue with that scenario and, I suspect, that many of them are the same people who tell gay players to just deal with it.  I'm definitely not saying that this includes  you, though, since I don't know enough about your posting history to make that statement.

[The Elder King]

Yeah, it was more of a rhetorical question, to be honest.  I wasn't directly challenging your statement, although it might have seemed that way because I included your quote in the message.  Sorry if I wasn't clear.  I think that most straight players would have a major issue with that scenario and, I suspect, that many of them are the same people who tell gay players to just deal with it.  I'm definitely not saying that this includes  you, though, since I don't know enough about your posting history to make that statement.

Oh, I'm sure that those that stated to deal with it wil likely have a problem with it, as the majority of straight people.
I shouldn't probably have said it becuase there's no way for me to prove it, but that's how I feel.

[XMissWooX]

Don't you think that straight people would have a problem with this scenario?  And that in New Franchise 1 Game 3 forums, they would make threads asking for more straight options?  And don't you think a gay person saying, "Meh, I'd be fine if there weren't gay options" probably wouldn't be much of a comfort?

Agreed. In that scenario, the straight gamers would likely feel the same as the non-straight gamers feel now. Its just taking one extreme and swinging it to the other extreme. I don't think that solves anything.

In terms of Bioware's romances: whether they use Bisexual, Playersexual or varied sexualities in their games, I don't think they would regress to omitting one group of fans. Answering inequality with inequality (ie. lack of/no gay characters with lack of/no straight characters) doesn't seem particularly fair or progressive.

People like choices. Whether they're gay, straight, bisexual, etc.

[Abelas Forever!]

I wouldn't like that I wouldn't be able to romance any man as a female PC so having all LIs as gay doesn't feel right. If there would be at least one option to me then I would be ok. It also doesn't feel right that if there hasn't been any gay romances before then it would be justified that all the future games will have only gay options. I see that would be some kind of punishment for something that I didn't do.

[daveliam]

Let me be really clear that I am not suggesting the scenario that I brought up.  I want all players to have more than one choice of LI regardless of gender or sexuality.  That's why I like the 2/2/2 approach or the all bisexual approach.  I just wanted to use a scenario to demonstrate more concretely exactly what gay and lesbian players have been dealing with and why we aren't placated with the "just deal with it" or the "well I wouldn't mind so neither should you" arguments.

[Abelas Forever!]

Let me be really clear that I am not suggesting the scenario that I brought up.  I want all players to have more than one choice of LI regardless of gender or sexuality.  That's why I like the 2/2/2 approach or the all bisexual approach.  I just wanted to use a scenario to demonstrate more concretely exactly what gay and lesbian players have been dealing with and why we aren't placated with the "just deal with it" or the "well I wouldn't mind so neither should you" arguments.

I know. It was the other posts that made me worried. Maybe people has been joking in this topic. I can't really tell. But I get the feeling that it would be justified for straight people to not have LIs in future games because gay people haven't had any in the past. Maybe I was wrong. I have problems with sarcastic comments because I take them as a truth.

[XMissWooX]

Let me be really clear that I am not suggesting the scenario that I brought up.  I want all players to have more than one choice of LI regardless of gender or sexuality.  That's why I like the 2/2/2 approach or the all bisexual approach.  I just wanted to use a scenario to demonstrate more concretely exactly what gay and lesbian players have been dealing with and why we aren't placated with the "just deal with it" or the "well I wouldn't mind so neither should you" arguments.

I completely agree with you, and I think that handwaving someone's reservations simply because they're not the same as yours is ridiculous. I'm not exactly thrilled with the set-sexuality structure, but if it does turn out to be 2/2/2 I can at least be happy because it is fair to *everyone*.

My points were mostly to demonstrate that this sort of fairness is definitely welcome. Gay and lesbian players have had a very hard time, and I don't think anyone deserves that sort of treatment. I'm hopeful that soon everyone will be on even footing.

[daveliam]

I know. It was the other posts that made me worried. Maybe people has been joking in this topic. I can't really tell. But I get the feeling that it would be justified for straight people to not have LIs in future games because gay people haven't had any in the past. Maybe I was wrong. I have problems with sarcastic comments because I take them as a truth.

 

I genuinely don't think that most people (I hesitate to say all because there will always be people with extreme opinions) don't want to see all straight options removed.  I think that most people here want to see gay and straight players with equal options.