448 réponses à ce sujet

[Cobra's_back]

Bolded part above: Oh man, OP. I feel you there, same deal for me.

 

I totally agree with the parts I quoted you on!

 

Never played Jade Empire, but what an intriguing idea. I'm leery of applying that treatment to everyone; some people are not and will never ever ever be interested in someone of a particular sex, no matter what. But, with proper care taken to respect the character's personal story, it's a very interesting idea indeed!

 

You know whose voice I heard this in...?

 

Just so you know the Alistair romance was a guilt trip romance. Remember Wynne's speech about love being selfish. Here is how it worked:

 

If Al is made king he dumps you unless you handle the responses correctly and have 4 Coercion and high enough approval.

 

He get locked in at the gate (in romance) and will take the final blow if you didn't convince him to do the DR. Guilt Trip for the ladies.

[Cobra's_back]

 

Well, they're complete characters. When you create one, you have do define things they like and things they don't like. I feel it's wrong to change who they are because of what you want. That's not what we see in the real life, and it's good when a game keeps some level of realism.

 

Taking me as example, I would like to romance Bethany on DA2, but as Bethany is our sister I'm ok with she not being romanceable, because we don't see relationships between siblings very often. But for ME, not thinking as Hawke but as Rick, Bethany is the most lovely female companion in the game and I have to deal with the fact that Hawke can't have a romance with his sister.

 

 

Inbreeding. I'm glad they didn't go there.

[Nefla]

Just so you know the Alistair romance was a guilt trip romance. Remember Wynne's speech about love being selfish. Here is how it worked:

 

If Al is made king he dumps you unless you handle the responses correctly and have 4 Coercion and high enough approval.

 

He get locked in at the gate (in romance) and will take the final blow if you didn't convince him to do the DR. Guilt Trip for the ladies.

I left him at the gate and did the US. Take that guilt trip you bastard!

[I Like Cats And]

Does anyone actually play this game for the gameplay or story? I swear all I hear is moaning about there not being enough gay romances, too many gay romances, everyone isn't romancable by anyone. You know just cause you're gay doesn't mean your character has to be. I'm a straight guy I played through as a gay woman in DA once. Gay people aren't gonna be the only one's who restricted, maybe some qt3.14 female qunari is only into chicks and I'm outta luck. 

[Mockingword]

You know just cause you're gay doesn't mean your character has to be.

Yeah, I think we all figured that out from the thousands of games where being gay is not an option.

 

Nobody needs to have their choices limited, there's no good reason why they should be.

 

And of course you don't care if you're restricted in any way. For straight people, straight men in particular, being limited in terms digital sex partners is a total novelty. Gay people have been waiting decades for games to acknowledge that they even exist, let alone actually create content for them. So yes, some of them are concerned, and want to ensure that trickle of content continues. That's a perfectly reasonable stance to take.

[Cobra's_back]

Does anyone actually play this game for the gameplay or story? I swear all I hear is moaning about there not being enough gay romances, too many gay romances, everyone isn't romancable by anyone. You know just cause you're gay doesn't mean your character has to be. I'm a straight guy I played through as a gay woman in DA once. Gay people aren't gonna be the only one's who restricted, maybe some qt3.14 female qunari is only into chicks and I'm outta luck. 

 

I feel for you. Actually it has been an educational post. I just found out the following:

 

"Yeah, straight females are the only players who could potentially have zero LI's in ME 3.  Lesbians always have two (Liara and Samantha); straight and gay guys always have one (Liara and Steve, respectively).  But as stated, straight females could potentially have zero.

 

In any give game:

 

Straight males - 1-3 LI's

Lesbians - 2 LI's

Gay males - 1-2 LI's

Straight females - 0-2 LI's"

 

As far as I'm concern, some of these issues may be resolved.

 

 

Mockingword also has a good point:

 

Nobody needs to have their choices limited, there's no good reason why they should be.

 

 

I'm thinking the Straight males should be the least concern and the straight female like myself would have been correct in assuming many of the LIs were booby prizes. 

[Andraste_Reborn]

Does anyone actually play this game for the gameplay or story?

 

You know, it's entirely possible for me to care about beating the Harvester on NIghtmare and about what's really going on with the Fade and the Maker and about whether or not I can romance Varric. All at the same time!

 

People who don't care about the romances are free to ignore them, as always. (It would be nice if they also ignored forum threads about them, but you can't have everything.)

[HiroVoid]

You know, it's entirely possible for me to care about beating the Harvester on NIghtmare and about what's really going on with the Fade and the Maker and about whether or not I can romance Varric. All at the same time!

 

People who don't care about the romances are free to ignore them, as always. (It would be nice if they also ignored forum threads about them, but you can't have everything.)

I don't really like thread complaining, but if there are people who constantly make comments you don't like in threads like his or hers, you can always ignore them.  At least I believe that's a new feature in the forum.

[AlanC9]

Does anyone actually play this game for the gameplay or story? I swear all I hear is moaning about there not being enough gay romances, too many gay romances, everyone isn't romancable by anyone. You know just cause you're gay doesn't mean your character has to be. I'm a straight guy I played through as a gay woman in DA once. Gay people aren't gonna be the only one's who restricted, maybe some qt3.14 female qunari is only into chicks and I'm outta luck.

Dude, the thread's got "romance" in the title. What did you think people would be talking about in it?

[Allan Schumacher]

I'd argue that romance content is also a part of the "story" aspect, so I think it's safe to say that people are playing this game for the story.

[Hellion Rex]

I'd argue that romance content is also a part of the "story" aspect, so I think it's safe to say that people are playing this game for the story.

*like*

[Lady Nuggins]

Does anyone actually play this game for the gameplay or story? I swear all I hear is moaning about there not being enough gay romances, too many gay romances, everyone isn't romancable by anyone. You know just cause you're gay doesn't mean your character has to be. I'm a straight guy I played through as a gay woman in DA once. Gay people aren't gonna be the only one's who restricted, maybe some qt3.14 female qunari is only into chicks and I'm outta luck. 

 

"I played as a gay woman once."

 

And isn't it great that you had the opportunity to do that?

 

Now imagine if you WERE a gay woman.  "I played as a gay woman once" suddenly becomes, "I got to play as somebody whose gender and sexuality match my own for the very first time."  Think of how much more important that experience becomes in that context, and how much more somebody in that position would fight to have the opportunity to do it again.

 

It seems like straight men are always the ones harping on how restrictions aren't such a big deal, and that's because they always have the most options open to them--both within every game and in video games and media in general.  Nobody is ever going to take away the straight male love interests, so of course you don't care about how many restrictions there are.  It's everybody else who is usually left begging for scraps.

[Nefla]

Does anyone actually play this game for the gameplay or story? I swear all I hear is moaning about there not being enough gay romances, too many gay romances, everyone isn't romancable by anyone. You know just cause you're gay doesn't mean your character has to be. I'm a straight guy I played through as a gay woman in DA once. Gay people aren't gonna be the only one's who restricted, maybe some qt3.14 female qunari is only into chicks and I'm outta luck.

Story? Yes I play for the story and that includes romance. Gameplay? No. Games I play for the gameplay are games like Skyrim, Dishonored, DE:HR, etc...Also you playing a lesbian (by choice) once is not the same as gay people being forced to play straight people in almost every game or women being forced to play men in almost every game. You having one LI you like that is not available to you is not the same as people who never even get ANY options. You can play for whatever reason you want, let others do the same.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Story? Yes I play for the story and that includes romance. Gameplay? No. Games I play for the gameplay are games like Skyrim, Dishonored, DE:HR, etc...Also you playing a lesbian (by choice) once is not the same as gay people being forced to play straight people in almost every game or women being forced to play men in almost every game. You having one LI you like that is not available to you is not the same as people who never even get ANY options. You can play for whatever reason you want, let others do the same.

De:HR was lucky where it had both great gameplay and great story.

[karushna5]

Does anyone actually play this game for the gameplay or story? I swear all I hear is moaning about there not being enough gay romances, too many gay romances, everyone isn't romancable by anyone. You know just cause you're gay doesn't mean your character has to be. I'm a straight guy I played through as a gay woman in DA once. Gay people aren't gonna be the only one's who restricted, maybe some qt3.14 female qunari is only into chicks and I'm outta luck.

I broke it down in another thread but imagine Mass Effect where in the first game... In ME
Kaiden is bi, Ash(a man) is gay, and liara was a lesbian...no options

Second game...
Garrus, Thane, and Jacob were gay
Miranda, Tali, and jack were lesbians
The secretary who is also a therapist has a bit of a crush on you, he swings both ways

In third Game...
Liara admits she has had feelings for awhile but never voiced them because it was too busy. But only if you saved her instead of Ash.
And sarah Cortez is crying, she is your navigator whose husband has recently died, she is your first straight only option. You cant take her on missions.

Not minding restrictions is easy because of all the games, the only character a straight woman could not have but was romance-able was Steve Cortez. Gay guys have been restricted nearly all the time. i don't know much about Baldurs gate, but gay men could not romance out of the romanceable characters in the last 4 games 1Carth Onasi, 2 Alistair, 3 kaiden(first game), 4 jacob, 5 Garrus , 6 Thane, 7 Garrus(3rd game)

Straight men have had even more options but they have only ever been denied 1 romanceable character, Samantha Traynor
Lesbian women have been denied access to 1) Bastila 2) Dawn Star 3) morrigan 4) Ashley 5) miranda 6) tali 7) jack 8) tali(3rd game) 9) Miranda (3rd game) 10) Ashley 11)jack

If you see how many times we have not had a character that could be had but isnt available to us, you understand more. Just imagine if all those characters were impossible to romance just because you were straight? Tell me it wouldnt make you complain about restrictions? If you had to play a lesbian every game just to enjoy the romances you would have liked?

I am not angry at Bioware that...was a different time, but restrictions make us wary and for good reason

[daveliam]

Not minding restrictions is easy because of all the games, the only character a straight woman could not have but was romance-able was Steve Cortez. Gay guys have been restricted nearly all the time. i don't know much about Baldurs gate, but gay men could not romance out of the romanceable characters in the last 4 games 1Carth Onasi, 2 Alistair, 3 kaiden(first game), 4 jacob, 5 Garrus , 6 Thane, 7 Garrus(3rd game)

 

I can help you out with this!  In the 10 Bioware games with romances (including SWTOR), there have been twenty-six male LI's.  Only six of them were available for m/m romance.

 

Straight female only options:

In Baldur's Gate 2:  Anomen; In Neverwinter Nights:  Aarin, Valen, and Calibast; In KOTOR: Carth; In DA: O: Alistair; in ME: Kaidan; In ME 2: Garrus, Jacob, and Thane; in DA 2: Sebastian; and in SWTOR: Andronikus, Doc, Aric, Corso, Felix, Pierce, Quinn, Tharan, Torian, and Vector were all unavailable to male players.

 

Available for m/m options:

In Jade Empire: Sky; in DA: O: Zevran; in DA 2, Anders and Fenris; and in ME 3, Kaidan and Cortez (gay) were m/m options.

 

So you can see that we've only had options in 4 out of the 10 games.  Someone posted on the forums the other day about how we've had gay romance in every game......!  Ha!  Interesting that out of all of those guys, only Steve is gay.  The other m/m options are bisexual.  On the other hand, if you notice, until the DA team came along, I had exactly ONE m/m option ever..... (compare that with the eleven that straight guys had had).  Also, the DA team is responsible for half of the m/m options ever, as well as the first game that gave me a choice in my LI. 

 

These kind of stats are the reasons why people are concerned and rightfully so, while other people see it as being ungrateful.  I know that both Allan and David have been on the forums to assure us that they are still going to attend to choice for everyone, so it does reassure me a bit.  However, until we finally find out how many LI's there will be and how many are open for m/m relationships, I totally understand why many players are still dubious given Bioware's (as a larger company) track record which, while better than many companies, is still far from being equitable.  I'm sure that we'll get at least two options, but there's still a little nagging in the back of my head until it's all confirmed.

[daveliam]

Oh, and here is the list for the female LI's:

Straight male only options:
In BG2: Aerie, Jahiera, and Viconia; in NWN: Aribeth and Nathyrra; In KOTOR: Bastila; in JE: Dawn Star; in ME: Ashley; in DA: O: Morrigan; in ME 2: Jack, Miranda, and Tali; in ME 3: Ashley, Miranda, Jack, and Tali; in SWTOR: Akaavi, Ashara, Elara, Jaesa, Kaliyo, Kira, Mako, Nadia, Raina, Risha, and Vette

Available for f/f options:
In NWN: Kaidala; in KOTOR: Juhani (lesbian); in JE: Silk Fox; in ME: Liara; in DA: O: Leliana; in DA 2: Isabella and Merrill; in ME 3: Liara, Kelly, and Samantha (lesbian)

I chose to include Juhani even though she's not a full romance just because she was the first s/s exclusive romance so I think it's worth noting. Also, I didn't count any of the partial romances or flings.

[Mockingword]

The thing about equity is it's on-going. You can't just say "well, we made a few games with same-sex romance options, time to call it quits" (not to say that BioWare will do this, but the possibility is ever-present). It has to be consistent, or the situation becomes inequitable again very quickly.

 

And since the entire world outside of BioWare is still pumping out pretty much only straight characters, the situation has a long way to go before it even begins to be equitable.

[Vapaa]

in SWTOR: Akaavi, Ashara, Elara, Jaesa, Kaliyo, Kira, Mako, Nadia, Raina, Risha, and Vette

 

Jesus Christ

 

(also, Juhani is in KOTOR, not SWTOR )

[daveliam]

How embarrassing that I would mix those games up, given that KOTOR is one of my favorite games of all time and SWTOR, well, isn't......

Also, slightly off topic, I never noticed how similar all of the SWTOR lady names are until I typed that in.....

[Hanako Ikezawa]

How embarrassing that I would mix those games up, given that KOTOR is one of my favorite games of all time and SWTOR, well, isn't......

You got 3 of the 5 letters right, so you barely pass with a D -.

[daveliam]

At least I had the era right!

[Mockingword]

I thought SWTOR got some sort of expansion that included a "gay planet"?

 

I was rather curious to see how our homeworld is depicted in games, but not enough to subscribe to any kind of MMO.

[daveliam]

No. It was called the 'gay planet' because in a several hour expansion, there were two s/s NPC flings. It was another example of gay panic. There was a lot of the 'why are you turning Star Wars gay!!!!!!!' complaints. Altogether the 'gay content' in that expansion amounted to about 3 minutes of dialogue and a fade to black. Also, I'm not sure if they were gay characters or bisexual characters. I think that the female, at least, was bisexual, but I can't remember. Oh, and they were also faction locked so only empire aligned males and republic aligned females got to access them. Which is why my level 53 male Jedi Sage is still single. Oh, and one more thing, you could also kill the gay guy which made for truly horrendous chat experiences as people proudly talked about killing him.....