448 réponses à ce sujet

[Allan Schumacher]

I know, what happened to the days of Revenge because they did something bad to you personally? Put you in prison, killed your parents/best friend/ siblings, betrayed you for money. Almost killed you and left you for dead. Stole everything you had.

All are good revenge stories that require no heterosexuality or obligatory dead women falling out of the sky and your fridge everywhere you go.

 

I think there's the idea that affecting something that is taken from you is arguably more painful.

 

I know some that, if given the choice between suffering themselves or having a loved one suffer, would choose to endure it themselves simply because they are given that choice, while the loved one is not.

[karushna5]

Well, I can't speak for everyone, least of all straight men, but I would consider the murder of my spouse to be something bad that was done to me personally.

No they did something bad to your spouse and it hurt you(admittedly my other examples were of indirect bad things so not the best examples) the thing is narrative has a long history of killing or hurting women to make a man feel. So much so that a very common plot line to get 2 people together is him to save her from sexual assault even while ogling her. (This is an improvement as not too long ago, he was actually the assaulter) Need emotions? Kill her and he can go on to next woman of the week and get to be sad and people feel sorry for you often without a thought to the lady that actually died. Women have had forced abortions, been attacked, decapitated, cut into pieces, killed horrendously, ad infinitum so the male hero can have feels.

On the other hand, very rarely other than the case of a young son(who is very rarely killed) does a man suffer to further a woman's plot. Usually if he is, there is more of a threat of harm with him being unaware. A woman's story often revolves around how much she suffers personally. While a man is very much what he can achieve. One example I can think of is kill Bill where her fiance died because her old boss was jealous. A thought is not even spared for him. On the other hand, she thought she had aborted, was abused in the hospital, had a body that wouldnt work, and was still kinda in love with the guy who did it to her.

[Mockingword]

If I'm in a relationship with someone, I'm going to take any harm done to my partner pretty personally, regardless of the perpetrator's actual intent.

 

Like "Oh, we're just here to kill your boyfriend, we have no beef with you."

 

Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

[Gregolian]

Where are these comments from Gaider?

[Hellion Rex]

Where are these comments from Gaider?

Which?

[karushna5]

Yes, of course you are. But the difference in narrative and real life is, in narrative, she(and 90% of the time it is a she) is reduced to an object. It is the same thing as damsel in distress except her whole purpose is to die. Being a woman and realizing that in the vast majority of action/fantasy/sci fi movies you are either a prize to be won(with little to no characterization) or your whole purpose is to die (no characterization)

On the other hand it is never the guys son, it is always his spouse, daughter, mother. Most parents agree to a more strong bond to their kids, so why is it so very rarely a son that dies for feelings? Or a son that is lost?

I have no issue with it, but time after time women have to suffer to give a man story, when a woman is a character, this somehow never becomes an appealing plot. Imagine 20 years from now that there is a gay best friend of the main character in most stories, but his only purpose is to die so that the main character can say "you killed my gay best friend" and cry. It feels cheap. And it has been literary convention for years.

[Gregolian]

Which?

The one the OP is talking about.

[Mockingword]

Yes, of course you are. But the difference in narrative and real life is, in narrative, she(and 90% of the time it is a she) is reduced to an object. It is the same thing as damsel in distress except her whole purpose is to die. Being a woman and realizing that in the vast majority of action/fantasy/sci fi movies you are either a prize to be won(with little to no characterization) or your whole purpose is to die (no characterization)

On the other hand it is never the guys son, it is always his spouse, daughter, mother. Most parents agree to a more strong bond to their kids, so why is it so very rarely a son that dies for feelings? Or a son that is lost?

I have no issue with it, but time after time women have to suffer to give a man story, when a woman is a character, this somehow never becomes an appealing plot. Imagine 20 years from now that there is a gay best friend of the main character in most stories, but his only purpose is to die so that the main character can say "you killed my gay best friend" and cry. It feels cheap. And it has been literary convention for years.

Right, and I don't dispute any of that.

[Gregolian]

Game of Thrones should be interesting.

 

"Press 'A' to slaughter a family."

 

"Press 'B' to slaughter a family."

 

"Press 'X' to have graphic sex."

 

"Press 'Y' to be slaughtered with your family."

Press "RT" to ask for chickens.  And then "LT" to kill an entire tavern.

[Mockingword]

Press "RT" to ask for chickens.  And then "LT" to kill an entire tavern.

Wait, what if they have you play as Hodor?

[Gregolian]

Wait, what if they have you play as Hodor?

You just keep pressing 'A' to say "Hodor" until Hodor gets possessed at some point?  I Have no idea really, curious how those guys are going to tackle that game, like whether it'll be from the books, show, or a side storyline that GRRM gives to them.

[karushna5]

Sorry, my own personal pet peeve. I actually think if it is done respectfully, it could be done well. I used to be really into comics, and some of my favorite characters this happened to almost out of the blue.

It is annoying, because those are the genres I am into, so it hits closer home. *shrug*

[Mockingword]

Spoiler

I just saw that last Friday, honestly I am happy they kept that in mostly because you rarely, if ever, see characters die in comic book related movies except for The Punisher because, well, Frank kills ****** EVERYONE. Especially people close to the main characters.

 

Pepper in Iron Man 3 is a better example imo.  She was literally captured to force Tony to hunt her down and get her back with Rhodes.  Gwen was actually helping Peter out and got caught up in between him and the Goblin.  Do you really expect a normal every day human to be able to compete with a person that is basically a enraged and crazy super soldier and a person that has the best of what makes a spider without the creepy factor of spiders?

 

If it were say Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, Wonder Woman, or Jean Grey in the same situation than people are more than free to call BS on it IMO.

 

Gwen was in the same position that those US soldiers were in in Smallville during Man of Steel.  Yeah they can fight...  but is there really any way a normal human can compete with someone that can pick up a locomotive and throw it or in the case of Spider Man and Goblin a big car?

Spoiler

Well, it's not about whether or not she could "realistically compete", her survival was purely a matter of Peter catching her in time.

 

I'm not concerned with comic canon, the film is a separate artwork. Regardless of what happened in the comics Gwen's death wasn't necessary in the film because she'd already been effectively written out of it. She was on her way to Oxford. Peter could've realised that he had to stay behind to protect New York, and they could've broken up for good.

 

Instead, she had to die in order for Peter to have some sort of a "growth moment" that was crammed into the last five minutes of the movie. Like "lol, let's just fast forward past all that pesky grieving and get him straight back into the game". It's borderline insulting.

 

And let's face it. Death is completely meaningless in the world of comic books. If a character is popular, they'll be resurrected within a few issues anyway.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Well outside of RPGs, you aren't really playing "your character" at all (at least in the same way). Whatever attributes the predetermined characters of other games have say nothing about "you."

[Gregolian]

Spoiler

Well, it's not about whether or not she could "realistically compete", her survival was purely a matter of Peter catching her in time.

 

I'm not concerned with comic canon, the film is a separate artwork. Regardless of what happened in the comics Gwen's death wasn't necessary in the film because she'd already been effectively written out of it. She was on her way to Oxford. Peter could've realised that he had to stay behind to protect New York, and they could've broken up for good.

 

Instead, she had to die in order for Peter to have some sort of a "growth moment" that was crammed into the last five minutes of the movie. Like "lol, let's just fast forward past all that pesky grieving and get him straight back into the game". It's borderline insulting.

Let's be honest though, Amazing Spider Man 2 had...  well, a fair bit of problems in it, that final climax scene notwithstanding.

 

Either that or Winter Soldier and the MCU has ruined comic book adaptations for the rest of time for me.

[N7 RN]

I couldn't care less about a character's sexual orientation or what's "realistic" (it's a fantasy game, I mean, wat) and for the people who are offended by bisexuality or homosexuality, DON'T ROMANCE THEM THEN. BRUSH OFF THEIR ADVANCES. EASY. PEASY.

The one thing that I do wish they would do is even out the playing field, at least close to the same number of LIs for male and female player characters. What were there, like 6 or 7 hetero LIs for MaleShep in ME3, and 2 for FemShep? Come on now, Bioware, you know by now that you have a way higher ratio of female fans than most developers. Whose palms do I have to grease for some dwarf action? And the thing that irritates me the most is the people saying "I hope Varric isn't romanceable, Bianca bluh bluh blurh" THEN DON'T ROMANCE HIM YOU KUMQUAT. LORD. BEGONE.

[Mockingword]

Let's be honest though, Amazing Spider Man 2 had...  well, a fair bit of problems in it, that final climax scene notwithstanding.

 

Either that or Winter Soldier and the MCU has ruined comic book adaptations for the rest of time for me.

What could Winter Soldier have possibly done that was as bad as literally every superhero movie prior to Iron Man? 

 

I mean, you remember that Daredevil exists, right? And Batman & Robin?

 

I don't follow the comics that closely, and I don't really think the movies should try to either, since comic continuity is a hot mess of reboots and overlapping timelines. 

[Gregolian]

What could Winter Soldier have possibly done that was as bad as literally every superhero movie prior to Iron Man? 

 

I mean, you remember that Daredevil exists, right? And Batman & Robin?

 

I don't follow the comics that closely, and I don't really think the movies should try to either, since comic continuity is a hot mess of reboots and overlapping timelines. 

When I say "ruin" I mean it's made my expectations too high for others .  Hell, the MCU in general has done that to me...  except Iron Man 3.

[karushna5]

Spoiler

I just saw that last Friday, honestly I am happy they kept that in mostly because you rarely, if ever, see characters die in comic book related movies except for The Punisher because, well, Frank kills ****** EVERYONE. Especially people close to the main characters.
 
Pepper in Iron Man 3 is a better example imo.  She was literally captured to force Tony to hunt her down and get her back with Rhodes.  Gwen was actually helping Peter out and got caught up in between him and the Goblin.  Do you really expect a normal every day human to be able to compete with a person that is basically a enraged and crazy super soldier and a person that has the best of what makes a spider without the creepy factor of spiders?
 
If it were say Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, Wonder Woman, or Jean Grey in the same situation than people are more than free to call BS on it IMO.
 
Gwen was in the same position that those US soldiers were in in Smallville during Man of Steel.  Yeah they can fight...  but is there really any way a normal human can compete with someone that can pick up a locomotive and throw it or in the case of Spider Man and Goblin a big car?

Well I mean the movie they killed the most people was everyones least favorite... X-Men 3 so I think that effects it. Everyone dies in comics, the issue is who they dont bring back. Sometimes I think it is a prerogative for green lanterns to have their girlfriends die by Jealous Sapphires which seems unfair.

Comics are dominated by straight men even more than video games. And often has a toxic atmosphere. Media rarely can make me cry, it just isnt real enough. But some of the deaths that writers give characters has made me actually cry due to its distastefulness. I tense up every time they make a gay/lesbian character because a new writer often kills them in the most homophobic way possible. Female characters in comics I accept as all being alien constructs, which lets me deal with their total lack of realism.

(I dont mean flight or that, but every pose is sexy, they rarely act like women and more caricatures of women and every so often a new writer with a grudge gets ahold of them and they become an outlet for his sexism)

[r1ck182]

"I played as a gay woman once."

 

And isn't it great that you had the opportunity to do that?

 

Now imagine if you WERE a gay woman.  "I played as a gay woman once" suddenly becomes, "I got to play as somebody whose gender and sexuality match my own for the very first time."  Think of how much more important that experience becomes in that context, and how much more somebody in that position would fight to have the opportunity to do it again.

 

It seems like straight men are always the ones harping on how restrictions aren't such a big deal, and that's because they always have the most options open to them--both within every game and in video games and media in general.  Nobody is ever going to take away the straight male love interests, so of course you don't care about how many restrictions there are.  It's everybody else who is usually left begging for scraps.

 

This doesn't seem to be the point here. We know there will be homosexual options or at least bisexual, so people will be able to romance a companion from any gender, but maybe not any companion. I understand that the OP want every romanceable companion to be "playersexual".

 

As I said on previous pages, every character has it's own story, so if it's ok with everything about him/her, fine. But if they have to change who the characater are, or it doesn't fit it's context, I'm against it.

 

It's hard to define if it's ok or not, because we all have our own way to see the matter, and if you want something, you should try, but just do things "because I want that way" couldn't be good everytime.

[Boisterous Bob]

Where are these comments from Gaider?

 

 

The one the OP is talking about.

I'm guessing it was his tumblr that was being referenced. Not positive though; I'm sure there's been more than one statement, too, but this was the one that I remembered.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Are there really that many games which imply that you are straight ?

The Halo franchise. Spartans like the Master Chief have no sex drives as a byproduct of their enhancements.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yeah, I agree that Juhani isn't really a full romance, but she is only available to female Revans and you express your interest back. I believe that she then says that you can discuss it after you deal with Malak. The only reason why I included her here is because she was the first openly gay companion that Bioware made. I think it's notable and, given that there was no male equivalent, it does speak to the company's tendency to prioritize f/f relationships over m/m ones.

She is also the first openly lesbian character in the entire Star Wars universe. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Let's be honest though, Amazing Spider Man 2 had...  well, a fair bit of problems in it, that final climax scene notwithstanding.

 

Either that or Winter Soldier and the MCU has ruined comic book adaptations for the rest of time for me.

Marvel Studios basically became the Pixar of superhero movie makers: Makes everything else in the genre look bad in comparison.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I don't follow the comics that closely, and I don't really think the movies should try to either, since comic continuity is a hot mess of reboots and overlapping timelines. 

I tend to do the same. After a while, two things in comics happen: each character dies and/or each character hooks up with another character. Then a new spin comes around and the entire previous series is made noncanon.