92 réponses à ce sujet

[metalfenix]

That should be made for all difficulties or else there'll be section closing riots on this forum.

 

at least is better than a lousy achievement/trophy

[Spirit Keeper]

Can I get that on Rogue armour?

You get a gold star! And you get a gold star! Everybody gets a gold star!

[General TSAR]

Hell yeah, do the same thing the Mass Effect Crew did for high difficulties in Mass Effect 2 (Get the Pulse Rifle during Haestrom on Insanity)

[The Hierophant]

Hell yeah, do the same thing the Mass Effect Crew did for high difficulties in Mass Effect 2 (Get the Pulse Rifle during Haestrom on Insanity)

I didn't know that rifle existed until my insanity run. It was a nice surprise.

This reminds me that i still have to complete insanity on my main account. Should've played it there from the get go.

[Knight of Dane]

Good points.

Though what do you think about alternate non game-breaking equip drops from bosses (mostly cosmetic) based on difficulty?

Actually I would propose that those who care more for cosmetic appeal rather than stats optimization are those that do play on the lighter difficulties

I don't think a setting should award anything, but difficult challanges should, which has always been a stable of RPG's. Higher rank enemies drop better stuffz!

 

Maybe a experience boost though. Ever played the new thief game? It's crappy, but it has a really good option where you can customize your difficulty in the beginning of a new game, and for each setting selected or deselected it will award a larger or smaller exp % bonus.

[TurretSyndrome]

So basically a Final Fantasy superboss? I could get behind this since the encounter isn't needed to complete the main game, while it's sole function is to p!ss off (challenge) the player. A lower difficulty could render the encounter pointless though.

 

On a lower difficulty, the encounter would not happen. The player finishes game on say Nightmare, a quest opens up to investigate so and so region. You go there, boss shows up. I just think this type of content where rewarding the player for beating a challenge with another one is a great thing, not to mention making it exclusively for the hardest difficulty can allow the developers to go crazy with crafting the boss/challenge without having to "optimize" it for the lower ones.

[The Hierophant]

Actually I would propose that those who care more for cosmetic appeal rather than stats optimization are those that do play on the lighter difficulties

You'd be surprised. In Guilty Gear XX's Survival Mode i defeated all the gold characters in one go in order to unlock the alternate color costumes. Heck a lot of the JRPGs i've played had you do hardcore tasks in order to unlock new costumes or palette swaps. (no bragging, just regret filled introspection)

Alternate rewards across all difficulties like weapons or outfits sounds interesting as it could make players play other difficulties. especially in a non difficulty locked system.

I don't think a setting should award anything, but difficult challanges should, which has always been a stable of RPG's. Higher rank enemies drop better stuffz!

Agreed, but Turret's mention of difficulty specific challenges unlocking new challenges sounds interesting though.

Maybe a experience boost though. Ever played the new thief game? It's crappy, but it has a really good option where you can customize your difficulty in the beginning of a new game, and for each setting selected or deselected it will award a larger or smaller exp % bonus.

I was waiting until the game is dirt cheap, but this sounds good.

On a lower difficulty, the encounter would not happen. The player finishes game on say Nightmare, a quest opens up to investigate so and so region. You go there, boss shows up. I just think this type of content where rewarding the player for beating a challenge with another one is a great thing, not to mention making it exclusively for the hardest difficulty can allow the developers to go crazy with crafting the boss/challenge without having to "optimize" it for the lower ones.

Some would be opposed to this but i like the sound of it. There's something that resonates with me about completed challenges unlocking new ones.

[TurretSyndrome]

Some would be opposed to this but i like the sound of it. There's something that resonates with me about completed challenges unlocking new ones.

 

I don't know what problem anyone would have with it to be perfectly honest. This is no FPS game where player skill determines content access and speed of that access. This is an RPG where one needs to invest time and effort into understanding the game's mechanics and set up strategies to beat the game on higher difficulties. It's not like people can do Nightmare right off the bat on their first playthroughs. 

 

If you're playing the game in a casual sense and not looking for the highest challenge the game can provide, you're not really missing out on anything even with this kind of implementation. It's doesn't really impede their progress in the game and since it's end game, it won't even matter as it's not even going to be part of the "proper" quest list of the game. 

[In Exile]

I don't know what problem anyone would have with it to be perfectly honest. This is no FPS game where player skill determines content access and speed of that access. This is an RPG where one needs to invest time and effort into understanding the game's mechanics and set up strategies to beat the game on higher difficulties. It's not like people can do Nightmare right off the bat on their first playthroughs.

If you're playing the game in a casual sense and not looking for the highest challenge the game can provide, you're not really missing out on anything even with this kind of implementation. It's doesn't really impede their progress in the game and since it's end game, it won't even matter as it's not even going to be part of the "proper" quest list of the game.

The problem comes in when the actual combat is garbage. Like if the Corypheus battle had some nightmare specific reward. That's a battle against the crappy pathfinding on nightmare much more than anything else.

[Realmzmaster]

I don't know what problem anyone would have with it to be perfectly honest. This is no FPS game where player skill determines content access and speed of that access. This is an RPG where one needs to invest time and effort into understanding the game's mechanics and set up strategies to beat the game on higher difficulties. It's not like people can do Nightmare right off the bat on their first playthroughs. 

 

If you're playing the game in a casual sense and not looking for the highest challenge the game can provide, you're not really missing out on anything even with this kind of implementation. It's doesn't really impede their progress in the game and since it's end game, it won't even matter as it's not even going to be part of the "proper" quest list of the game. 

No content in a rpg should be tied to a difficulty level. The point of playing at the Nightmare level is for the challenge itself. If I purchase a game I expect all the content to be available at whatever difficulty level I play.

[TurretSyndrome]

The problem comes in when the actual combat is garbage. Like if the Corypheus battle had some nightmare specific reward. That's a battle against the crappy pathfinding on nightmare much more than anything else.

 

 

I think people can agree with me when I say that Corypheus boss battle was clumsy to an extent, partly due to companion AI being absolutely idiotic(it's like telling your children not to go places or start doing stuff, but they do them anyway and get into trouble) and partly because of the boss area and the encounter itself. DA:I will probably have fewer limitations when it comes to handling the party compared to the previous games, and since the game will have expansive areas unlike DA 2's usually cramped spaces to fight in,  developers will have lots of room to craft some decent boss encounters.

 

I don't believe any special gear or some other reward is necessary beyond the encounter itself. The opportunity of fighting the boss itself would be the reward for completing the game on Nightmare. Once you defeat it, I suppose an achievement would be nice to certify the victory but no more than that. 

 

 

No content in a rpg should be tied to a difficulty level. The point of playing at the Nightmare level is for the challenge itself. If I purchase a game I expect all the content to be available at whatever difficulty level I play.

 

I'm not advocating for content to be locked with difficulty in the sense of actual story content, gear, items, assets etc which is obviously relevant and important to people playing below Nightmare. Just some monsters with no particularly better loot drops appearing in the game after the game has been beaten on certain difficulties. Nightmare is a challenge on it's own, sure, but the completion of the challenge could be rewarded with yet few more boss fights, but very difficult ones relative to Nightmare mode difficulty itself. 

 

For someone playing the game on Casual, Normal or Hard, it wouldn't trigger because the fight was meant to be hard for people playing on Nightmare. In addition to that, I think the encounter itself works as a great motivator to play and finish the game on the Nightmare difficulty as opposed to an achievement being the source of motivation, but really the main reason for my suggestion is to give a little bit more mileage for people who want that kind of challenge endgame.

[I Like Cats And]

I think besides achievements and what not some unlocked end game material would be a really good idea for people who play on Nightmare. They should also do a no switching difficulty rule to unlock it so you actually have to struggle with it.

[The Hierophant]

Good responses.

[Realmzmaster]

Unlocking bonus material because you played and finished Nightmare level is still blocking content that others will not see on the lower difficulty levels. Why should the gamer not be able to challenge that same boss at the level they chose to play. So basically what is being said is that the challenge of completing Nightmare level is not enough of a challenge. Others want a reward for beating the level.

Let's hand out rewards for beating the game at any level. Why not have the I beat it on Normal (or pick you difficulty level) achievement. Beating the game on NIghtmare is the reward. Why is anything else necessary?

[Amfortas]

A reward for people who play on nightmare isn't necessary, but I see it as an incentive for more people to try the nightmare mode. People who would otherwise not bother.

 

And before you ask why should people play on nightmare, I believe it's positive when people experience the game in its entirety as much as possible. Combat is a part of the game.

[HiroVoid]

Aside from some achievements in DA:Origins, I can only think of the Geth Shotgun in ME2 that had this in Bioware games.  It's a bit harder to think of how to do this in regards to Bioware games since combat is in all honesty not as much as a focus in the game as say.....Viewtiful Joe, Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden, Final Fantasy, etc.

[Mirrman70]

I think that thing they did in the south park guitar hero episode when they did 1 million points would be satisfying.

[HiroVoid]

I don't think Bioware wants to be accused of homophobia.

[Realmzmaster]

A reward for people who play on nightmare isn't necessary, but I see it as an incentive for more people to try the nightmare mode. People who would otherwise not bother.

 

And before you ask why should people play on nightmare, I believe it's positive when people experience the game in its entirety as much as possible. Combat is a part of the game.

The gamers are experiencing the game in its entirety by playing on whatever difficulty level they chose unless somehow the story is different. The only point that Nightmare has is harder combat. If you beat the game at that level you have been rewarded. I doubt very many people gamers will be enticed to play Nightmare if all they receive from it is frustration. Therefore that locked created content will only be seen by a few. That to me is not acceptable. No content should be locked by a difficulty level. IMHO.

[The Hierophant]

So basically what is being said is that the challenge of completing Nightmare level is not enough of a challenge. Others want a reward for beating the level.

Let's hand out rewards for beating the game at any level. Why not have the I beat it on Normal (or pick you difficulty level) achievement. Beating the game on NIghtmare is the reward. Why is anything else necessary?

*eureka*

Looking back on DAO's and DA2's nightmare modes i think it's the quality or the type of challenge they present to some players that's an issue. Depending on what constitutes as a challenge to some, if the player doesn't feel they are being properly challenged i doubt they'll feel that playing the mode is a reward in itself.

[Amfortas]

The gamers are experiencing the game in its entirety by playing on whatever difficulty level they chose unless somehow the story is different. The only point that Nightmare has is harder combat. If you beat the game at that level you have been rewarded. I doubt very many people gamers will be enticed to play Nightmare if all they receive from it is frustration.

 

So if the story is different the game is not being experienced entirely, but if the combat is different it doesn't matter? Like it or not combat is part of the game as well. A very large part I'd say, even a bit too large for my tastes (I wish there were more non combat solutions).

 

You can beat the game on normal mode without even having the most basic understanding of the game's mechanics, leave all the tactics on auto, reload a couple of times and done, and I'm not exaggerating, I know it first hand. The understanding of the game's mechanics being here what the player is mssing. That is not subjective and it's part of the game. Character building is part of the game, knowing the different abilities, how and when to use them is part of the game, controling the entire party is part of the game, friendly fire is part of the game.

 

As for the frustation comment, Origins on nightmare plays really smoothly once you understand the game. DAII can be a bit harder, I accept that. But the thing is Dragon Age games require 0 player skill. Failing repeatedly is due to: being lazy (and not wanting to control the party) or not understanding the game's mechanics.

 

Playing on normal/easy mode is absolutely legitimate, but a large part of the experience is being missed. I'm sure most players do not care about what they are missing though, that's why I said they need a bit of encouragement.

[In Exile]

So if the story is different the game is not being experienced entirely, but if the combat is different it doesn't matter? Like it or not combat is part of the game as well. A very large part I'd say, even a bit too large for my tastes (I wish there were more non combat solutions).

 

You can beat the game on normal mode without even having the most basic understanding of the game's mechanics, leave all the tactics on auto, reload a couple of times and done, and I'm not exaggerating, I know it first hand. The understanding of the game's mechanics being here what the player is mssing. That is not subjective and it's part of the game. Character building is part of the game, knowing the different abilities, how and when to use them is part of the game, controling the entire party is part of the game, friendly fire is part of the game.

 

As for the frustation comment, Origins on nightmare plays really smoothly once you understand the game. DAII can be a bit harder, I accept that. But the thing is Dragon Age games require 0 player skill. Failing repeatedly is due to: being lazy (and not wanting to control the party) or not understanding the game's mechanics.

 

Playing on normal/easy mode is absolutely legitimate, but a large part of the experience is being missed. I'm sure most players do not care about what they are missing though, that's why I said they need a bit of encouragement.

 

This idea that somehow building characters, scripting AI, or pausing & playing is not "player skill" is just bizarre. Do you think a 4X strategy game doesn't involve player skills? It's one thing to say it doesn't depend on reflex, but quite another to say it's independent of skill. 

[Gamemako]

I don't know what problem anyone would have with it to be perfectly honest... It's not like people can do Nightmare right off the bat on their first playthroughs.

I do, and I do. Hells, I always start at the highest difficulty level available. I love a game that can actually put me down by demanding more skill than I can muster. DA:O was not that game, as I cleared on Nightmare without an injury (excepting three inflicted by the demon in the forest with the willpower check I failed). I found the lack of challenge frustrating, though it was at least in part because I was all for the Arcane Warrior that turned out to be stupendously overpowered. DA2 did kill me a few times, but it was almost exclusively due to the completely broken assassin opponent mechanics.

But I'm not most gamers. Most people haven't put the tens of thousands of hours into gaming that I have, and they haven't made a life of numbers like I have. Not everyone has the time to play through the game 5 times to build the skill and knowledge to win. This is especially true of things that can turn out really, really crappy, like DA2. It took me over an hour to kill the ARW in DA2 my first playthrough. Here's the kicker: nobody died in that fight. Granted, that fight was changed quite a bit, but how many people want to deal with that kind of crap in order to see some content? Games are supposed to be fun, not frustrating. Difficulty settings exist to keep the game fun for all skill levels. If you find Normal too easy to enjoy, then having the higher difficulty setting is where you go for a challenge. If you don't want that challenge or are having too much trouble with a specific encounter, you can lower the difficulty. Restricting rewards to certain difficulty defeats the purpose of having different difficulty settings.

[Realmzmaster]

So if the story is different the game is not being experienced entirely, but if the combat is different it doesn't matter? Like it or not combat is part of the game as well. A very large part I'd say, even a bit too large for my tastes (I wish there were more non combat solutions).

 

You can beat the game on normal mode without even having the most basic understanding of the game's mechanics, leave all the tactics on auto, reload a couple of times and done, and I'm not exaggerating, I know it first hand. The understanding of the game's mechanics being here what the player is mssing. That is not subjective and it's part of the game. Character building is part of the game, knowing the different abilities, how and when to use them is part of the game, controling the entire party is part of the game, friendly fire is part of the game.

 

As for the frustation comment, Origins on nightmare plays really smoothly once you understand the game. DAII can be a bit harder, I accept that. But the thing is Dragon Age games require 0 player skill. Failing repeatedly is due to: being lazy (and not wanting to control the party) or not understanding the game's mechanics.

 

Playing on normal/easy mode is absolutely legitimate, but a large part of the experience is being missed. I'm sure most players do not care about what they are missing though, that's why I said they need a bit of encouragement.

What do you mean 0 player skill? If you mean zero reflex skill I may agree with you. Building your party is a player skill. Making choices for the character is a player skill. Using the tactics screen requires player skill. Deciding which party members to take on quests requires player skill especially if one of the other party members is already decided. Party synergy requires player skill. No matter what level a gamer plays at player skill is required. Learning the system mechanics to the point that you can complete the Nightmare level is the reward.

[Amfortas]

Saying that someone has the skill to pause the game is what sounds bizarre to me, but not matter, it's a semantic problem. Let me rephrase it, the game requires 0 zero reflexes or any kind of physical skills.

 

And if I might add, while the game requires certain "skills", the game's skill cap is low enough that when someone fails it is not because he is not able to, but because either he doesn't read the tooltips or he simply doesn't want to pause. Mostly the second. My 1st playthrough of DAII took me around 100 hours, with tactics deactivated and mad pausing skillz, I barely had to reload. If my friends didn't complete the game on nightmare playing like that is not because they don't have the capacity of doing so, but because they believe that playstyle is boring. SImple as that.

 

You're making it sound as if the game's mechanics were that complex thing, concepts that average person is not able to grasp. Carefully reading tooltips, choosing a party where it's possible to beat the game with every combination. Does finishing primary school require skill? Isn't every person able to do it however? It all comes down to putting a bit of effort, something that most players don't want to do. They need an incentive to do so.