92 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

Saying that someone has the skill to pause the game is what sounds bizarre to me, but not matter, it's a semantic problem. Let me rephrase it, the game requires 0 zero reflexes or any kind of physical skills.

 

And if I might add, while the game requires certain "skills", the game's skill cap is low enough that when someone fails it is not because he is not able to, but because either he doesn't read the tooltips or he simply doesn't want to pause. Mostly the second. My 1st playthrough of DAII took me around 100 hours, with tactics deactivated and mad pausing skillz, I barely had to reload. If my friends didn't complete the game on nightmare playing like that is not because they don't have the capacity of doing so, but because they believe that playstyle is boring. SImple as that.

 

You're making it sound as if the game's mechanics were that complex thing, concepts that average person is not able to grasp. Carefully reading tooltips, choosing a party where it's possible to beat the game with every combination. Does finishing primary school require skill? Isn't every person able to do it however? It all comes down to putting a bit of effort, something that most players don't want to do. They need an incentive to do so.

 

If we're talking about DA:O, for example, the tooltips were complete garbage. You had no idea what effect your statistics had on your abilities. For example, pumping spellpower in a BM/SM build in DA:O is actually very useful, and let's you avoid what are generally mana wasting talents like spell wisp and spell might because you're casting out of your HP pool but the % hit goes to your MP, which in BM you're not casting out of anyway. But in this build, without the detailed tooltips mods, you're basically playing blind. 

 

I wouldn't blame people for complaining about the difficulty with builds given that DA hasn't done a good job conveying the information (but DAII did a better job than DA:O, except that there the power curve was so b0rked that knowing something did 300 damage or %300 damage in a CCC was not as helpful because of the 1000s of HP enemies had). 

[Sylvius the Mad]

If we're talking about DA:O, for example, the tooltips were complete garbage. You had no idea what effect your statistics had on your abilities. For example, pumping spellpower in a BM/SM build in DA:O is actually very useful, and let's you avoid what are generally mana wasting talents like spell wisp and spell might because you're casting out of your HP pool but the % hit goes to your MP, which in BM you're not casting out of anyway. But in this build, without the detailed tooltips mods, you're basically playing blind. 

The Detailed Tooltips mod was essential.  I actually didn't like DAO when I first played it because of the opacity of the mechanics.  Only when I installed Detailed Tooltips did it become a game I genuinely enjoyed.

[JCFR]

Wether it's increased loot, better equipment, xp or finally the inclusion of an achievement, what do you nightmare/hard mode players think of this? Discuss...

srsly, please do.

Why? To punish all those  who don't wish to play in super-badass-get-away-from-me-******-difficulty?

I fail to see the point in that.

 

If you want a reward for choring yourself through that, tap yourself on the shoulder, but don't go and start cutting out game-content. 

[In Exile]

The Detailed Tooltips mod was essential.  I actually didn't like DAO when I first played it because of the opacity of the mechanics.  Only when I installed Detailed Tooltips did it become a game I genuinely enjoyed.

 

I agree. I wasn't as familiar with RPGs and their mechanics when I first played DA:O, my only other experience being D&D which I hated with a passion, so it didn't stand out as much for me. But now I couldn't enjoy DA:O without tooltip mods. 

[Realmzmaster]

Bioware has been excellent in making sure that all the content in their games is available in their games regardless of the difficulty level. That is a trend I wish to see continue.  The problem with the Nightmare difficulty in DAO and DA2 is that it all revolves around combat. 

 

Fallout:New Vegas has a hard difficulty that does not lock away any game content but it imposes more restrictions and rules on the character. For example everything carried has weight and the character has a real weight limit. Resource management is essential, because the gamer has to decide what his/her character will carry in regards to armor and weapons (along with ammo).The stimpaks (healing potions) heal less. Fatigue, hunger, disease and poisoning (radiation and other) have dramatic effects on the character's ability to function let alone fight. Some injuries require a doctor or healer to cure.

In games like Realms of Arkania what the party was wearing came into play. If the party was not prepared with a  change of  clothing members could die from the heat or cold. 

I would like to see a lot of this incorporated into a Nightmare mode rather than just combat. Make Nightmare truly nightmarish.

[JCFR]

I agree. I wasn't as familiar with RPGs and their mechanics when I first played DA:O, my only other experience being D&D which I hated with a passion, so it didn't stand out as much for me. But now I couldn't enjoy DA:O without tooltip mods. 

I didn't think that would be possible... someone who dislikes D&D but likes to play RPG.

I know, the early games were clunky and a bit hard to grasp but once i got over that, i was soo caught by it. All the classes, the skills,the characters... never ever did i put so much effort and lifetime into games like BG and BG2.

 

Geez... remembering all that and still feeling, that modern RPGs like the DA-series are stlll on the lightweight-side compared to the older ones and lack  some deepness in their RPG-system... well, seems i'm really getting old.

[In Exile]

I didn't think that would be possible... someone who dislikes D&D but likes to play RPG.

I know, the early games were clunky and a bit hard to grasp but once i got over that, i was soo caught by it. All the classes, the skills,the characters... never ever did i put so much effort and lifetime into games like BG and BG2.

 

Geez... remembering all that and still feeling, that modern RPGs like the DA-series are stlll on the lightweight-side compared to the older ones and lack  some deepness in their RPG-system... well, seems i'm really getting old.

 

D&D is just a pure garbage ruleset. Aside how short-changed warriors are, mages aren't even fun to play. It's basically rock, paper hold person. 90% of learning D&D is realizing how many trap or otherwise crap abilities there are and how to avoid those like the plague. Or bizarre counter-intuitive systems like THAC0. 

[andregrunge90]

I don't know ... to give more ''life'' for the game a multiplayer system would be better after finishing the story in single player mode.

[The Hierophant]

Why? To punish all those who don't wish to play in super-badass-get-away-from-me-******-difficulty?
I fail to see the point in that.

If you want a reward for choring yourself through that, tap yourself on the shoulder, but don't go and start cutting out game-content.

And none of the stuff i mentioned in the op is cutting content. Only added extra. You'd have a point about my hypothetical examples if you stated that they'll make the mode easier but Thumb Fu and Realmz already highlighted that.

Plus, do you think an achievement for completing nightmare mode would cut content from players?

[andregrunge90]

 

 

Another example is Dragon's Dogma, rpg console can also be complete in character creation too, and the womens more FEMINIZED please Bioware !!!

 

[The Hierophant]

Bioware has been excellent in making sure that all the content in their games is available in their games regardless of the difficulty level. That is a trend I wish to see continue.  The problem with the Nightmare difficulty in DAO and DA2 is that it all revolves around combat. 
 
Fallout:New Vegas has a hard difficulty that does not lock away any game content but it imposes more restrictions and rules on the character. For example everything carried has weight and the character has a real weight limit. Resource management is essential, because the gamer has to decide what his/her character will carry in regards to armor and weapons (along with ammo).The stimpaks (healing potions) heal less. Fatigue, hunger, disease and poisoning (radiation and other) have dramatic effects on the character's ability to function let alone fight. Some injuries require a doctor or healer to cure.
In games like Realms of Arkania what the party was wearing came into play. If the party was not prepared with a  change of  clothing members could die from the heat or cold. 
I would like to see a lot of this incorporated into a Nightmare mode rather than just combat. Make Nightmare truly nightmarish.

The only way i can picture nightmare mode being non gimmicky difficult is if the ai programming is seriously improved, the humanoid enemies using the basic talent trees, them actively wearing equipment that influences stats, and a revamped resistance and weakness system.

[The Hierophant]

 
 
Another example is Dragon's Dogma, rpg console can also be complete in character creation too, and the womens more FEMINIZED please Bioware !!!

???

[andregrunge90]

???

 

OMG ... sorry sorry ... what a shame! this video was for another topic http://forum.bioware...eator-wishlist/

[Bob from Accounting]

Hardcore mode in New Vegas really added almost no difficulty to the game. It's nice for the immersion, but I've heard it described as 'brutal,' which is really a joke.

 

By far the harshest consequence was that your companions can die in combat, which wasn't so much difficult as frustrating, since it was generally due to companions not following orders and moronically charging deathclaws.

 

On topic: Having any kind of narrative reimbursment for playing on a higher difficulty is a bad idea.

[Allan Schumacher]

New Vegas' hardcore mod was more interesting with Sawyer's mod.  It's the type of thing I want in a survivalist game, though I agree it wasn't aggressive enough.

[bEVEsthda]

This idea that somehow building characters, scripting AI, or pausing & playing is not "player skill" is just bizarre. Do you think a 4X strategy game doesn't involve player skills? It's one thing to say it doesn't depend on reflex, but quite another to say it's independent of skill. 

 

Indeed. I would expand and generalize this, to all understanding about a game. I've seen individuals here, now and then, constructing a very contrieved argument that certain games are dead-easy and takes no skill, just because the battles can actually be beaten with consistency, when you've figured out how to. There is no difference - in this regard - between Baldur's Gate and Dark Souls.

 

In fact, it's true about all games, even the purest twitch games. To beat a game, you need to learn and adapt. When you've done so, it's easier to beat. Does that mean it was always easy and took no skill?

 

I do not play RPGs for the combat (nor for the 'story' either, I play them for my character's perspective of the story). Combat is important to me, but not for it's own sake. It provides the obstacle, and the dread, that is necessary for the perspective of the story.

 

It didn't matter much, but I most certainly found DA2 combat mostly very unenjoyable. But one battle that was sort of fun to figure out was the Corypheus. Just goes to show how different opinions can be. Just saying.

 

**********

 

On the general OP question, I have a very firm opinion:

The difficulty setting on a modern, advanced game with sophisticated design, should  only be an adaption to make the game equally enjoyable for different persons. It should IMO absolutely not  affect content!  I dislike when games, for instance, balance the makeup of their encounters from the chosen difficulty setting. A lot of games do that. It seems so easy to make it in another way - just adjust damage taken and dealt. Why change the hitpoints or numbers of opponents?

 

Same with environmental factors. Things like friendly fire and exposure to elements. They should be present on all difficulty levels. Only how much damage they do, should be adjusted.

 

That's my firm opinion.

[Allan Schumacher]

just adjust damage taken and dealt. Why change the hitpoints

 

Note that adjusting hitpoints is equivalent to adjusting damage taken and dealt.

 

 

Though in general I agree that content should not be gated by difficulty level.

[Isabelle]

In Last of Us I started playing again in a more difficult to continue collecting the dogtags, but halfway through the game again I gave up.

I would play again on a harder difficulty if it had influence on my original game.

[bEVEsthda]

'Hardcore' mode mods in games like FO3 and Skyrim, which add realistic factors like companion deaths, exposure, starvation, thirst etc, is something I find tremendously enjoyable and rewarding. 

 

Not because they make the game harder. No, but because you need to do it right!  I like that. I like to have to think about the survival of my companion, for instance. I like to be responsible, in a greater sense than just the tedious drudgery of killing and killing.

[Isabelle]

'Hardcore' mode mods in games like FO3 and Skyrim, which add realistic factors like companion deaths, exposure, starvation, thirst etc, is something I find tremendously enjoyable and rewarding. 

 

Not because they make the game harder. No, but because you need to do it right!  I like that. I like to have to think about the survival of my companion, for instance. I like to be responsible, in a greater sence than just the tedious drudgery of killing and killing.

 

It's good ... but the story and your actions for changing the story repeating again, is not the case of DLC's or the multiplayer like Mass Effect.

[bEVEsthda]

Note that adjusting hitpoints is equivalent to adjusting damage taken and dealt.

 

 

Though in general I agree that content should not be gated by difficulty level.

 

I would argue that it's not.  It only seems so in the limited scope where it actually is.

 

Depending upon the game design, it may affect all kinds of other design decisions. If you're regarding hitpoints as a scalable attribute, you can't use hitpoints for other gameplay mechanisms.

[Allan Schumacher]

I would argue that it's not.  It only seems so in the limited scope where it actually is.

 

Depending upon the game design, it may affect all kinds of other design decisions. If you're regarding hitpoints as a scalable attribute, you can't use hitpoints for other gameplay mechanisms.

 

What other mechanisms are you referring to?

[bEVEsthda]

What other mechanisms are you referring to?

 

I'm not referring to anything specific. I merely pointed out that you build in a limitation in your game design.

 

Suppose, for example, you someday want to have some kind of parameters for input into some kind of simulation of social environment or the PC's reputation for NPC reactions to him/her. Then it would make sense to base the reputation of the PC's/party's prowess as a fighter/fighters on the amount of hitpoints dished out. 

[Allan Schumacher]

I'm not quite sure I follow.

 

Something along the lines of "Track how much total damage the PC/Party has done.  If it's over a certain value, make the reactions/reputation update accordingly?"

[bEVEsthda]

I'm not quite sure I follow.

 

Something along the lines of "Track how much total damage the PC/Party has done.  If it's over a certain value, make the reactions/reputation update accordingly?"

 

Your example is as good as mine, because the point is that the hitpoints is a pretty fundamental piece of data, that you might  want to also use for something different.