226 réponses à ce sujet

[KainD]

Knight enchanter is a spell that keeps them protected. that in while wrapped in protective magics.  any specialization of mages is a series of magics in a specialized form of them,also not if the gun is on safety and they know how to used in there fingers dont pull trigger. also warriors are trained to be tougher in take more damage then normal alot people in real life take less damage then others cause of training. there not super man but still why should a mage limit itself when they have so many options at there disposal.

 

You didn't get my point, k, moving on to the next. 

Once again, protective magic is very good, not talking about that. KE is not a specialization that is all about protective spells now is it? 

Using armor and weapons for a mage is the definition of limiting themselves. 

[KainD]

When did i say mages couldnt stop regular warriors? Army implies a large number, a single mage cant take an army which you twice said they could. I dont think that, you're assuming i do, the point im getting at is that if mages are as effective as you're putting them out to be, they'd rule everything. Fact of the matter is, they're both great at different things and mixing the two skill sets of a mage and warrior are very useful which you seem to keep denying since in your opinion its pointless to have warrior aspects if you're already a mage

 

I'd recon to actually stop a LARGE army, it would take one big spell cast by a number of mages, and would consume some resources. Still the number of mages for such a feat would be miles less than the actual army. Mages DO actually rule everything in Tevinter, in other countires they are impaired from proper training and mindset from a young age. Yes it is pointless, both warrior and a mage can kill, only mage does it better. 

[SerCambria358]

I'd recon to actually stop a LARGE army, it would take one big spell cast by a number of mages, and would consume some resources. Still the number of mages for such a feat would be miles less than the actual army. Mages DO actually rule everything in Tevinter, in other countires they are impaired from proper training and mindset from a young age. Yes it is pointless, both warrior and a mage can kill, only mage does it better. 

You'd recon, thats not actual support. When did i say otherwise? One country that was easily taken over by qunari isnt "everything" You'd think this almighty spell wouldve been used by tevinter given that they have the numbers. Tevinter being such an advanced country of magic even uses battle mages, nothing in lore or gameplay supports your argument, all this is argument is, is an opinion from someone who cant admit warriors have skills that mages could use. You literally have no support except for your own specualtion and bias opinions

[KainD]

You'd recon, thats not actual support. When did i say otherwise? One country that was easily taken over by qunari isnt "everything" You'd think this almighty spell wouldve been used by tevinter given that they have the numbers. Tevinter being such an advanced country of magic even uses battle mages, nothing in lore or gameplay supports your argument, all this is argument is, is an opinion from someone who cant admit warriors have skills that mages could use. You literally have no support except for your own specualtion and bias opinions

 

Tevinter is a country that can't freaking catch a breath, between the blights, exalted marches, slave revolts, Qunari invasions. Also a country that is not unified at all, between all the political warfare for power. I'd say that the ONLY reason they still stand is the might of their individual battle mages.

I won't admit that warrior skills are useful for mages, because they are not. 

[sunnydxmen]

You didn't get my point, k, moving on to the next. 

Once again, protective magic is very good, not talking about that. KE is not a specialization that is all about protective spells now is it? 

Using armor and weapons for a mage is the definition of limiting themselves. 

 

its not  limiting them its giving them more options, im pretty sure i said this already let me say it again it makes them versatile able handle to handle situations. warriors up close or faraway why not learn it whats wrong with being prepared for different outcomes i for one love being prepared why use big spells every moment you can take em down with a magic sword. we dont if its all about protection magic but going by its description it very will might be.

[sunnydxmen]

Tevinter is a country that can't freaking catch a breath, between the blights, exalted marches, slave revolts, Qunari invasions. Also a country that is not unified at all, between all the political warfare for power. I'd say that the ONLY reason they still stand is the might of their individual battle mages.

I won't admit that warrior skills are useful for mages, because they are not. 

 

well i guess we agree to disagree.

[SerCambria358]

Tevinter is a country that can't freaking catch a breath, between the blights, exalted marches, slave revolts, Qunari invasions. Also a country that is not unified at all, between all the political warfare for power. I'd say that the ONLY reason they still stand is the might of their individual battle mages.

I won't admit that warrior skills are useful for mages, because they are not. 

Lol so you admit Tevinter battle mages are useful yet deny that warrior skills arent useful to mages? That isnt a contradiction to you? You dont have to admit anything, your argument was enough to prove my point, you have nothing in game nor in lore that proves your point, the only reason you cant admit to anything is out of arrogance. Nothing more

[KainD]

why use big spells every moment 

 

I don't know, why use big spells every moment? Use small spells. 

[KainD]

Lol so you admit Tevinter battle mages are useful yet deny that warrior skills arent useful to mages? That isnt a contradiction to you? You dont have to admit anything, your argument was enough to prove my point, you have nothing in game nor in lore that proves your point, the only reason you cant admit to anything is out of arrogance. Nothing more

 

Where's the contradiction? I have plenty in game and lore that supports my point, otherwise we wouldn't have this conversation. Improving inferior skills is a waste of time. 

[SerCambria358]

Where's the contradiction? I have plenty in game and lore that supports my point, otherwise we wouldn't have this conversation. Improving inferior skills is a waste of time. 

Tevinters combat mages use swords and armor, you admit they are the reason that tevinter is still around, yet you completely dismiss the possibility that warrior traits are any use to mages. Warriors are inferior to mages the same way Assault rifles are inferior to sniper rifles, being used for different roles doesnt conclude that one is better. 

 

Wheres the lore and in game support then?

 

Spoiler

[KainD]

Tevinters combat mages use swords and armor, you admit they are the reason that tevinter is still around, yet you completely dismiss the possibility that warrior traits are any use to mages. Warriors are inferior to mages the same way Assault rifles are inferior to sniper rifles, being used for different roles doesnt conclude that one is better. 

 

Yes, if that is the case, then the battle mages could be even more powerful is they focused on magic more. 

Warriors are inferior to mages the same way a knife is inferior to a tank. Again, not always the case, just trained vs trained, fair play. 

[SerCambria358]

Yes, if that is the case, then the battle mages could be even more powerful is they focused on magic more. 

Warriors are inferior to mages the same way a knife is inferior to a tank. Again, not always the case, just trained vs trained, fair play. 

Once again, you use your own opinion and try to pass it as fact, despite lore saying otherwise. At this point i think you're just trolling

[Shady Koala]

I'm going to chime in, I got the impression that the KE could wield a magical conjured sword due to this quote from the KE summary

'wielding blades of arcane force'

To me that does not sound like a physical sword, but one made of magic. So technically a spell is still being used. This prehaps suggests almost a hand to hand combat, similar to prototype style, just less flashy. Although this is speculation as this has not been proven to exist yet in Dragon Age lore, but anything is possible.

[KainD]

Once again, you use your own opinion and try to pass it as fact, despite lore saying otherwise. At this point i think you're just trolling

 

You are free to think what you will, and if that is the case aren't you wasting your time? 

Lore has displays of magic and mundane combat in action, I take that as a logic start point. 

 

Mages can cast spells fast - fact. If you cast a weaker spell to kill a single opponent up close and cast it quick it won't take a lot of energy. This is shown mostly through cutscene material. 

Weight causes strain, and strain impedes spell casting - fact. This is shown in gameplay as extra mana costs for wearing armor and shields. Using mundane equipment for battle impedes spell casting. 

[KainD]

I'm going to chime in, I got the impression that the KE could wield a magical conjured sword due to this quote from the KE summary

'wielding blades of arcane force'

To me that does not sound like a physical sword, but one made of magic. So technically a spell is still being used. This prehaps suggests almost a hand to hand combat, similar to prototype style, just less flashy. Although this is speculation as this has not been proven to exist yet in Dragon Age lore, but anything is possible.

 

That would make a lot more sense and would be a lot more practical. If KE also uses only magic for protection and not actual armor, I will take everything I said back, and this spec will be legit. 

[karushna5]

you have great defence access to all the mages aoe attacks. plus able to fight up close in take more damage,  also if allows to wear armor through will power like arcane warrior you be able to wear best armor for defence plus rock armor.  it just sound so good im definitely going knight enchanter.

Many people are talking about a mage being best tank. A mage being best at melee, I really like the Knight Enchanter as it has flavor that I think would fit several mages, even more so than Arcane Warrior. But if the Knight Enchanter is so broken like it was before then I dont think it is very good.

It isnt a good specialization if it is so hugely better than the rest. Its fine as long as they are still fundementally mages.

[KainD]

Many people are talking about a mage being best tank. A mage being best at melee, I really like the Knight Enchanter as it has flavor that I think would fit several mages, even more so than Arcane Warrior. But if the Knight Enchanter is so broken like it was before then I dont think it is very good.

It isnt a good specialization if it is so hugely better than the rest. Its fine as long as they are still fundementally mages.

 

Mages ARE better, as they should be. 

[AventuroLegendary]

Knight enchanter is the most silly specialization for a mage to have. If I wanted to play a warrior I would play that instead. 

Welcome to fantasy RPG archetypes 101.

[SerCambria358]

You are free to think what you will, and if that is the case aren't you wasting your time? 

Lore has displays of magic and mundane combat in action, I take that as a logic start point. 

 

Mages can cast spells fast - fact. If you cast a weaker spell to kill a single opponent up close and cast it quick it won't take a lot of energy. This is shown mostly through cutscene material. 

Weight causes strain, and strain impedes spell casting - fact. This is shown in gameplay as extra mana costs for wearing armor and shields. Using mundane equipment for battle impedes spell casting. 

Not if i'm entertained

 

Giving examples of moments when mages killed warriors isnt at all support that they wouldnt benefit from physical combat skills. I can say the exact same about warriors defeating mages. If magic alone was so superior, neither tevinter nor the Dalish would have created a mix of warriors and magic. You admit Battlemages kept tevinter alive yet become a hypocrite with the next statement. The game has also shown that managing your energy use will eliminate the need to worry about mana if you're an Arcane Warrior. Your knife/tank analogy is just ridiculous considering the knife has taken the tanks country and won plenty more. Both gameplay and lore support my argument, you have your opinions and speculation to support yours.

[KainD]

Not if i'm entertained

 

Giving examples of moments when mages killed warriors isnt at all support that they wouldnt benefit from physical combat skills. I can say the exact same about warriors defeating mages. If magic alone was so superior, neither tevinter nor the Dalish would have created a mix of warriors and magic. You admit Battlemages kept tevinter alive yet become a hypocrite with the next statement. The game has also shown that managing your energy use will eliminate the need to worry about mana if you're an Arcane Warrior. Your knife/tank analogy is just ridiculous considering the knife has taken the tanks country and won plenty more. Both gameplay and lore support my argument, you have your opinions and speculation to support yours.

 

Glad yo hear it. 

 

I'm talking about examples of casting not kills. Look, if magic and physical activity would be two separate entities, I would agree with you, if it was mana AND stamina. But as it is casting magic actually weakens mages physically, and doing physical activities makes a mage tired to use spells. Casting spells is basically a physical activity, like biotics in ME. Magic is clearly superior to mundane combat, so using inferior tools at the cost of less spell casting is not wise. 

I've never had mana problems gameplay wise, with high enough willpower, when I run out of mana, it means that everything is dead. I already named you the reason for why mundanes have any chances against mages, it's their quantity. 

[The Baconer]

... One would think people would read the spec description before participating in an in-depth discussion about it *cough*

 

 

Aside from that, knowing some basic mundane combat definitely wouldn't hurt, and I would still carry a backup weapon of some kind, arcane laser blades or not. We know from the literature that templars can dissipate magical shielding (with their disruption powers being primarily channeled through their weapons), I can't imagine a blade of pure magic would fare much better.

[SerCambria358]

Glad yo hear it. 

 

I'm talking about examples of casting not kills. Look, if magic and physical activity would be two separate entities, I would agree with you, if it was mana AND stamina. But as it is casting magic actually weakens mages physically, and doing physical activities makes a mage tired to use spells. Casting spells is basically a physical activity, like biotics in ME. Magic is clearly superior to mundane combat, so using inferior tools at the cost of less spell casting is not wise. 

I've never had mana problems gameplay wise, with high enough willpower, when I run out of mana, it means that everything is dead. I already named you the reason for why mundanes have any chances against mages, it's their quantity. 

You yourself said, someone can train to better themselves, meaning this issue wont be prominent. The part i underlined is the part where your argument can be summed up to, you deducing that its superior out of nowhere without giving any reason beyond your own opinion. They're superior at different tasks in different situations, problem with spells is that the quick ones are often wounding rather than lethal. A simple sword thrust will either be lethal or render you useless in the fight.  Mages have devastating spells but the only reason they can be so useful is because of the support of warriors, why not mix the two? One mage vs one warrior can easily turn bad for either, quantity doesnt determine that, its quality. 

[KainD]

problem with spells is that the quick ones are often wounding rather than lethal.

 

This is the main point of disagreement I think, you assume that in order to kill a mage must channel long/hard. 

Many things are lethal - simple flameblast to engulf a single person in flames is enough to burn them to death, a lightning strike is lethal, a telekinetic blast can shatter spine and organs, I don't think one has to put much energy into such spells, specially if they trained for combat and that's their go to moves. 

Shooting a lightning bolt at a person to shock them to death is much easier than summoning a storm of the century type spell that can damage a whole little village, killing many people. 

[Rainbow Wyvern]

This is the main point of disagreement I think, you assume that in order to kill a mage must channel long/hard. 

Many things are lethal - simple flameblast to engulf a single person in flames is enough to burn them to death, a lightning strike is lethal, a telekinetic blast can shatter spine and organs, I don't think one has to put much energy into such spells, specially if they trained for combat and that's their go to moves. 

Shooting a lightning bolt at a person to shock them to death is much easier than summoning a storm of the century type spell that can damage a whole little village, killing many people. 

Most of those spells would only work if the enemy is unarmored. Fire won't do much against a guy wearing full plate armor and a helmet. He's still going to run up to you and rip your little mage stomach in half. 

And if all it took was a simple flame blast or telekinetic wave to kill a mundane warrior, then majority-mundane armies simply wouldn't work, and Tevinter would've roflstomped everyone into the dirt. As evidenced by the qunari and many other nations, majority-mundane armies do work.

And Tevinter isn't doing all that well right now.

[SerCambria358]

This is the main point of disagreement I think, you assume that in order to kill a mage must channel long/hard. 

Many things are lethal - simple flameblast to engulf a single person in flames is enough to burn them to death, a lightning strike is lethal, a telekinetic blast can shatter spine and organs, I don't think one has to put much energy into such spells, specially if they trained for combat and that's their go to moves. 

Shooting a lightning bolt at a person to shock them to death is much easier than summoning a storm of the century type spell that can damage a whole little village, killing many people. 

These moves can be and have been blocked with relative ease in certain situations. A trained knight can do the same damage to a village. The hole in a mages strategy is their inability to take damage or deliver damage when confronted, why not erase the whole in their strategy with "mundane" skills? You using mundane to describe physical combat just exposes how bias you are in the first place