226 réponses à ce sujet

[SerCambria358]

Most of those spells would only work if the enemy is unarmored. Fire won't do much against a guy wearing full plate armor and a helmet. He's still going to run up to you and rip your little mage stomach in half. 

And if all it took was a simple flame blast or telekinetic wave to kill a mundane warrior, then majority-mundane armies simply wouldn't work, and Tevinter would've roflstomped everyone into the dirt. As evidenced by the qunari and many other nations, majority-mundane armies do work.

And Tevinter isn't doing all that well right now.

Trust me, ive said exactly what you have but this person openly admitted that theyre not going to admit they are wrong, at this point im just continuing until they're faced with nothing left to say

[KainD]

Most of those spells would only work if the enemy is unarmored. Fire won't do much against a guy wearing full plate armor and a helmet. He's still going to run up to you and rip your little mage stomach in half. 

And if all it took was a simple flame blast or telekinetic wave to kill a mundane warrior, then majority-mundane armies simply wouldn't work, and Tevinter would've roflstomped everyone into the dirt. As evidenced by the qunari and many other nations, majority-mundane armies do work.

And Tevinter isn't doing all that well right now.

 

Plate armor doesn't protect at all from fire, plate becomes hot and melts and burn the whole skin off, fire would also get inside of the helmet and it would be easier for the person to suffocate as there wouldn't be much air to breath. Mages are rare, even Tevinter army is made from 95% if not all 99% out of mundanes, mercs and slaves. Mundane armies work because they outnumber mages a LOT. 

[SerCambria358]

Plate armor doesn't protect at all from fire, plate becomes hot and melts and burn the whole skin off, fire would also get inside of the helmet and it would be easier for the person to suffocate as there wouldn't be much air to breath. Mages are rare, even Tevinter army is made from 95% if not all 99% out of mundanes, mercs and slaves. Mundane armies work because they outnumber mages a LOT. 

You know how long armor has to be exposed to fire in order to melt? The distance that the spell goes isnt enough to roast them let alone suffocate them

[KainD]

These moves can be and have been blocked with relative ease in certain situations. A trained knight can do the same damage to a village. The hole in a mages strategy is their inability to take damage or deliver damage when confronted, why not erase the whole in their strategy with "mundane" skills? You using mundane to describe physical combat just exposes how bias you are in the first place

 

How exactly do you block a telekinetic blast? What stops a mage from blocking enemy attacks with actual magic as a way to take damage? I don't see how a spell such as mind blast that can hurl people around can't be used to deflect arrows in mid air and to deflect melee bows, if not completely toss the attackers away as they do in gameplay.

[Rainbow Wyvern]

Plate armor doesn't protect at all from fire, plate becomes hot and melts and burn the whole skin off, fire would also get inside of the helmet and it would be easier for the person to suffocate as there wouldn't be much air to breath. Mages are rare, even Tevinter army is made from 95% if not all 99% out of mundanes, mercs and slaves. Mundane armies work because they outnumber mages a LOT. 

If you use a simple fire spell it isn't going to melt the guy's armor off and roast his face. Fireball, yes. Simple flame blast? No. By the time it hits the mundie it'll be much colder than required for the melting of plate.

And how do we know how many mages are actually in Tevinter's armies? 

[KainD]

You know how long armor has to be exposed to fire in order to melt? The distance that the spell goes isnt enough to roast them let alone suffocate them

 

Armor won't melt, the skin will melt from being touched by armor, and the person will die. In modern warfare tank pilots can die from suffocation/overheating if the tank is exposed to flamethrower fire or cocktail Molotov type mixtures. Wearing a tincan really won't help one survive flame, if not worsen the odds. 

The distance varies, and we are mostly talking mid to melee range right now no? As an alternative to swords - Engulfing a person in flames. 

[KainD]

And how do we know how many mages are actually in Tevinter's armies? 

( I've written more about the fire and armor above. )

Because we know that mages are rare, and Tevinter is not a huge exception, even though they have more. And most mages in Tevinter are involved in politics and ruling not actual fighting and risking lives on the front lines, they use mercs and slaves for that. 

[KainD]

Trust me, ive said exactly what you have but this person openly admitted that theyre not going to admit they are wrong, at this point im just continuing until they're faced with nothing left to say

 

Btw, perhaps you haven't seen too many of my arguments around BSN, but you'd be surprised how easily I back down when faced with legit points and facts. I don't take personal offense in being proven wrong and don't have a problem changing my viewpoint. 

 

( Other than that, off for tonight, catch if any replies tomorrow. )

[SerCambria358]

How exactly do you block a telekinetic blast? What stops a mage from blocking enemy attacks with actual magic as a way to take damage? I don't see how a spell such as mind blast that can hurl people around can't be used to deflect arrows in mid air and to deflect melee bows, if not completely toss the attackers away as they do in gameplay.

Its not a move thats lethal on its own unless you use the specialty more than once, its usually used in combination with others which is what makes telepathy dangerous. Gameplay suggests it takes a significant amount of mana, so its not the smartest thing to use hoping for one shot kills

Armor won't melt, the skin will melt from being touched by armor, and the person will die. In modern warfare tank pilots can die from suffocation/overheating if the tank is exposed to flamethrower fire or cocktail Molotov type mixtures. Wearing a tincan really won't help one survive flame, if not worsen the odds. 

The distance varies, and we are mostly talking mid to melee range right now no? As an alternative to swords - Engulfing a person in flames. 

You're really trying to make a valid point by comparing it to CoD? For these effects to take place, they have to be engulfed for a certain period of time, neither fireball nor fire blast can do that.

[SerCambria358]

Btw, perhaps you haven't seen too many of my arguments around BSN, but you'd be surprised how easily I back down when faced with legit points and facts. I don't take personal offense in being proven wrong and don't have a problem changing my viewpoint. 

 

( Other than that, off for tonight, catch if any replies tomorrow. )

Than no offense but your own bias or ignorance blinds you from seeing anything but your own opinion even when you state something contradictory that supports my point

[Lotion Soronarr]

KainD is convinced mages are the greatest thing ever, perfect in every way and warriors and rouges are filthy peasants.

Also, magic is limitless and instant, and a mage can unleash deadly spells in CC just as fast and easily as someone can stab with a dagger/sword,

 

It's no use trying to discuss the value of armor and martial arts with him.

[SerCambria358]

KainD is convinced mages are the greatest thing ever, perfect in every way and warriors and rouges are filthy peasants.

Also, magic is limitless and instant, and a mage can unleash deadly spells in CC just as fast and easily as someone can stab with a dagger/sword,

 

It's no use trying to discuss the value of armor and martial arts with him.

"I won't admit that warrior skills are useful for mages, because they are not."-KainD

"I'd say that the ONLY reason they still stand is the might of their individual battle mages."-KainD

 

Lol i this is what i have to deal with, i shouldve gave up but eh, im already knee deep in this, might as well wade my way to the end

[DKJaigen]

Knight enchanter is the most silly specialization for a mage to have. If I wanted to play a warrior I would play that instead. 

 

[TurretSyndrome]

The creation of this specialization puzzles me. Lore-wise, this should only be available for human mages from the beginning. As much as I want to see the Dalish and the Saarebas Inquisitors actualy go through a quest line or a trainer or whatnot to unlock it, I expect Bioware to pull a "DA 2" with the specializations this time around so it's better to assume that they will have it even if it doesn't make sense.

[KainD]

Its not a move thats lethal on its own unless you use the specialty more than once, its usually used in combination with others which is what makes telepathy dangerous. Gameplay suggests it takes a significant amount of mana, so its not the smartest thing to use hoping for one shot kills

You're really trying to make a valid point by comparing it to CoD? For these effects to take place, they have to be engulfed for a certain period of time, neither fireball nor fire blast can do that.

 

Don't see why not. A hard punch to the face can be lethal, why not a telekinetic blast? It's only in gameplay that people are rack-dolls that have no consequences from falling. If you have enough force to throws someone a few meters and it comes as a sudden hit it logically causes all sorts of concussion, might cause inner organ and bone shattering. 

 

It's just a person in a tin-can, it doesn't take a lot of time to warm that up, not to mention that they won't be able to breath, or will be feeling their lungs with flame. 

 

 

KainD is convinced mages are the greatest thing ever, perfect in every way and warriors and rouges are filthy peasants.

Also, magic is limitless and instant, and a mage can unleash deadly spells in CC just as fast and easily as someone can stab with a dagger/sword,

 

Mages are far from perfect, but what they undoubtedly are is better than mundanes. And yes. 

[sunnydxmen]

The creation of this specialization puzzles me. Lore-wise, this should only be available for human mages from the beginning. As much as I want to see the Dalish and the Saarebas Inquisitors actualy go through a quest line or a trainer or whatnot to unlock it, I expect Bioware to pull a "DA 2" with the specializations this time around so it's better to assume that they will have it even if it doesn't make sense.

 

why should it only be available to humans elves qunari do magic so they be able to use it too.

[TurretSyndrome]

why should it only be available to humans elves qunari do magic so they be able to use it too.

 

 

Look at the description of that specialization. It's says "among the Circles of Magi", the name of the specialization itself is Knight Enchanter. It's clear that that specialization stems from mages from the Circles, why would the Saarebas or the Dalish Inquisitor have access to that from the get go?

[Wulfram]

In a party-based game, I usually prefer focus over diversification.  So I want a specialisation that makes my mage even better at blowing stuff up.  Maybe Rift Mage?

[The Hierophant]

KainD is convinced mages are the greatest thing ever, perfect in every way and warriors and rouges are filthy peasants.
Also, magic is limitless and instant, and a mage can unleash deadly spells in CC just as fast and easily as someone can stab with a dagger/sword,

It's no use trying to discuss the value of armor and martial arts with him.

Heck look at 2:00 - 2:10 of the intro. That warden mage was nearly murked from being outflanked, unarmed and unarmored.

A mage with martial training, weapons and armor negates that weakness.

[The Hierophant]

It would seem that even Malcolm Hawke knew that much.

Gandalf's a multi-classer too.