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Greater representation for all people, less misrepresentation of minorities


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#251
O_OotherSide

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Why? What is their reason for preferring white actors?

 

I'm like 85% sure that wanting to see more diversity in casting makes you a lot less racist than people that don't want diversity in casting.

I don't see a differnce between wanting to have a white character and wanting to have a black character. In the end both people want someone based on race.


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#252
tara

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Back on topic: I am a little sad that even in threads that are supposed to be about lack of representation of minorities in media, trans folks get the short end of the stick and are not mentioned anywhere near as much as racial minorities or minorities of different sexualities- if they're mentioned at all.

 

Outside of a few roles I can't think of many characters in media who were trans and not horrible stereotypes or something. Like, literally the only one I can think of is Laverne Cox's character in OITNB, probably? So many others are written as prostitutes, referred to constantly as their """"birth gender""" by the protagonist (!!!), killed, played by cisgender* people of their "birth gender" (ie: a trans woman being played by a very much cis man- it comes across as that the character is not a "real woman").

 

It's really disheartening to come into a discussion that's supposed to include you, but then forgets about you completely. :(

 

*editing to clarify that cisgender just means a person who's gender identity aligns with the gender they were assigned at birth. mostly b/c ive met people who've never heard the term before and i just wanna keep things clear


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#253
Mockingword

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Because the felt the actor, as a person, was a better fit perhaps?

The casting agents extrapolated that purely from the colour of the actor's skin?

 

You seem to have misunderstood my question. I'm not asking why the casting agents for Breaking Bad liked Bryan Cranston specifically, I'm asking why casting agents all over the Western world prefer white actors generally.



#254
Mockingword

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I don't see a differnce between wanting to have a white character and wanting to have a black character. In the end both people want someone based on race.

You don't see a difference between giving opportunities to excluded minorities, or deliberately choosing to keep excluding them?



#255
Hanako Ikezawa

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The casting agents extrapolated that purely from the colour of the actor's skin?

 

You seem to have misunderstood my question. I'm not asking why the casting agents for Breaking Bad liked Bryan Cranston specifically, I'm asking why casting agents all over the Western world prefer white actors generally.

No, they determine it from said actor's or actress' prior work. If they see the person is good at the role they want to portray in their character, the try to hire the actor or actress.

 

I know what you meant. I was just adding that they can look at the person as a person instead of the person as a member of a race. 



#256
HiroVoid

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Back on topic: I am a little sad that even in threads that are supposed to be about lack of representation of minorities in media, trans folks get the short end of the stick and are not mentioned anywhere near as much as racial minorities or minorities of different sexualities- if they're mentioned at all.

 

Outside of a few roles I can't think of many characters in media who were trans and not horrible stereotypes or something. Like, literally the only one I can think of is Laverne Cox's character in OITNB, probably? So many others are written as prostitutes, referred to constantly as their """"birth gender""" by the protagonist (!!!), killed, played by cisgender* people of their "birth gender" (ie: a trans woman being played by a very much cis man- it comes across as that the character is not a "real woman").

 

It's really disheartening to come into a discussion that's supposed to include you, but then forgets about you completely. :(

 

*editing to clarify that cisgender just means a person who's gender identity aligns with the gender they were assigned at birth. mostly b/c ive met people who've never heard the term before and i just wanna keep things clear

It's kinda hard to talk about using a trans in marketing in relation to Dragon Age when there's not even a way to include it in the character creator.  That would need to come before hand on the subject.  You could always try asking Gaider or other devs on their opinions about the option to be trans as a protagonist if that's what you're looking for.

 

In general though, yeah.  It's a bit of a difficult issue to discuss because most people still think of gender and sex as the same thing.  It's not even a case of just people being transphobic as it is also that the majority of people are completely uninformed on the topic and see no reason to look any further.


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#257
Nocte ad Mortem

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I don't see a differnce between wanting to have a white character and wanting to have a black character. In the end both people want someone based on race.

The difference is wanting continuation of over representation vs wanting more balanced representation. You're ignoring context. 



#258
O_OotherSide

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You don't see a difference between giving opportunities to excluded minorities, or deliberately choosing to keep excluding them?

No, I do not see a difference between telling someone they didn't get the part because they are white, or that they didn't get the part because they are black.



#259
AresKeith

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imo the current inquisitor looks latino/hispanic tbh so I don't really understand what the problem is.


He looked black to me lol
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#260
Hanako Ikezawa

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He looked black to me lol

He looked Thedasian to me.  B)


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#261
Mockingword

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No, they determine it from said actors or actresses prior work. If they see the person is good at the role they want to portray in their character, the try to hire the actor.

But not every actor or actress has prior work. How do you choose between two newcomers?

 

And since black actors, generally speaking, get much less work than white actors, doesn't that mean that white actors overall have a distinct, unfair advantage over black actors?

 

How do you know when a casting agent is looking at you "as a person", and not merely seeing the colour of your skin?



#262
La_Mer

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Back on topic: I am a little sad that even in threads that are supposed to be about lack of representation of minorities in media, trans folks get the short end of the stick and are not mentioned anywhere near as much as racial minorities or minorities of different sexualities- if they're mentioned at all.
 
Outside of a few roles I can't think of many characters in media who were trans and not horrible stereotypes or something. Like, literally the only one I can think of is Laverne Cox's character in OITNB, probably? So many others are written as prostitutes, referred to constantly as their """"birth gender""" by the protagonist (!!!), killed, played by cisgender* people of their "birth gender" (ie: a trans woman being played by a very much cis man- it comes across as that the character is not a "real woman").
 
It's really disheartening to come into a discussion that's supposed to include you, but then forgets about you completely. :(
 
*editing to clarify that cisgender just means a person who's gender identity aligns with the gender they were assigned at birth. mostly b/c ive met people who've never heard the term before and i just wanna keep things clear


It's true. Transpeople do get left off the list. Maevaris would be an excellent addition to the game, but unfortunately she was fleshed out too deep into DA:I 's development cycle. Hopefully there will be some dlc with her in the future. If she can get over her dead husband, perhaps she'd be a LI too.

#263
Mockingword

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No, I do not see a difference between telling someone they didn't get the part because they are white, or that they didn't get the part because they are black.

That's not what I asked you.



#264
ZombieOberyn

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You seem to have misunderstood my question. I'm not asking why the casting agents for Breaking Bad liked Bryan Cranston specifically, I'm asking why casting agents all over the Western world prefer white actors generally.

Because the majority of the Western world is inherently white? Would it stun you to learn that the film industry in India generally prefers Indian actors for example? Is everybody somehow an evil racist for this? This bizzare thinking is simply not applicable in reality. Is an author a racist, sexist, and homophobe by creating a character who is a straight white male?



#265
Battlebloodmage

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I always thought that trans people want to be of the other gender, so wouldn't playing as the other gender would suffice that? I'm not trying to offend anyone, so I'm just trying to understand it. I would refer to a transwoman as she and transman as he since that's the gender they would like to be. Anyway, there is a very respectable transwoman in DA series. Her name is Maeveris. She's Varric's cousin's wife.

 

199px-Maevaris_Tilani_2.png

 

tumblr_moi9v31H311qjfdczo1_r1_500.jpg


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#266
Divine Justinia V

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He looked black to me lol

 

na na na viva latino ^_^


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#267
O_OotherSide

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The difference is wanting continuation of over representation vs wanting more balanced representation. You're ignoring context. 

Over representation of white people in a mostly white country? If a creator wants a white character because he is white and identfies with white people more, I don't think its okay to say "Sorry there are too many white characters in this mostly white nation." Or say if I was in the middle east and it was "Sorry but he can't be middle eastern, he needs to be white because there are too many middle eastern characters"

 

Both sides want a character based on color, one side is trying to force their views about "Equal representation" on the other, when neither should. While the other side goes to other media and forces their view of "Marketable" on the other. Neither is right.


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#268
Hanako Ikezawa

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But not every actor or actress has prior work. How do you choose between two newcomers?

 

And since black actors, generally speaking, get much less work than white actors, doesn't that mean that white actors overall have a distinct, unfair advantage over black actors?

 

How do you know when a casting agent is looking at you "as a person", and not merely seeing the colour of your skin?

Auditions.

 

In some ways, perhaps. In other ways, the opposite.

 

You don't, though the opposite also is true.



#269
Battlebloodmage

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Auditions.

 

In some ways, perhaps. In other ways, the opposite.

 

You don't, though the opposite also is true.

Usually the role specifies the race of the characters. Can you guess which one is the most common? 



#270
tara

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No, I do not see a difference between telling someone they didn't get the part because they are white, or that they didn't get the part because they are black.

 

This is the reason why. Granted, it's representation on YA novel covers, but I am sure that it is largely the same throughout all western media.

 

PoC are very underrepresented. That should be reason enough.



#271
Dave of Canada

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I always thought that trans people want to be of the other gender, so wouldn't playing as the other gender would suffice that?

 

That's my understanding as well.


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#272
O_OotherSide

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That's not what I asked you.

Okay, it not okay to tell someone they have to exclude the majority because the minorty doesn't have enough roles. Its not okay for you to force you're person idea of what is just onto someone else, unless that person if flat out trying to murder or steal from you.



#273
Mockingword

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Because the majority of the Western world is inherently white? Would it stun you to learn that the film industry in India generally prefers Indian actors for example? Is everybody somehow an evil racist for this? This bizzare thinking is simply not applicable in reality. Is an author a racist, sexist, and homophobe by creating a character who is a straight white male?

Why is the majority "inherently" white? Are you saying that people become white by virtue of being the majority? Probably not.

 

Are you saying that if the majority population shifted to favour some other ethnic group, we'd suddenly see an influx of movies with black, hispanic, Asian or other protagonists?

 

Would it stun you to learn that well-known white actors probably don't want to work in niche, foreign films? Would it stun you to learn that authors who try to write protagonists of colour often get their work rejected by publishing companies on the basis that the protagonist is "not relatable"?

 

Would it stun you to learn that I'm not attacking individual content creators, but examining the wider, societal context in which their work appears?



#274
Hanako Ikezawa

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Usually the role specifies the race of the characters. Can you guess which one is the most common? 

Depends on the movie.



#275
Mockingword

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Depends on the movie.

That's not what he asked you.