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Greater representation for all people, less misrepresentation of minorities


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#351
Rusty Sandusky

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Also yes. The game is still in development. Development is not as easy as saying "alright looks good, add it to the other modules." Development has to go through refinements, testing ,quality assurance. The inquisitors model in the trailers is not something made from the character creator but just an attatched mesh. I doubt race/sexual orientation was the first thing that animator thought about when he was working on it on a Thursday night , half asleep and wondering if the bioware offices have any pop tarts.

More trailers are coming and they can be better representation there. As I said these are feature trailers with the features having top priority. Features are the MOST important thing to this product.


tfw pop tarts aren't available in Australia

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#352
Boisterous Bob

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What I meant more was that in casting, there's no reason to take a white guy over a black or asian or native american or whatever other race if the story doesn't get dramatically altered by it. However, the AUDIENCE would likely not take so well to a black actor playing a man who begins making meth, because they by and large don't empathize with him the same way they would with a white man.

 

I came to this conclusion based off of my own experiences, both within my family and without. If you'd asked my dad what he thought of a black man walking down the street in a dirty shirt, he'd say he was probably a drug addict who used all his money on things other than laundry. If you asked him about the same scenario but with a white guy instead, he'd just say that the guy's good clothes were probably at a dry cleaners, or he was in a rush to go somewhere like a CVS and really didn't need to bother changing clothes just to go to a store on the corner. He immediately jumps to the worst conclusion for PoC, but he empathizes with the white guy and assumes that he must have some reason to be wearing a crappy shirt.

Gotcha. Sorry, I have a lot of trouble comprehending sometimes when I can't hear a person's voice or see their face!

 

I totally lost track of the topic while writing my posts b/c I'm hecka slow and this thread is really starting to pick up pace.

 

I DON'T KNOW WHATS GOING ON

Haha, yeah I can't type and read fast enough for this!

 

This thread is devolving to a state where it being locked and warnings and/or possibly bans will be issued.

Good point. Actively choosing to bite my tongue about anything not on-topic at this point. This thread has got some solid stuff, let's work to keep it open.

 

Speaking of trailers with the character creator, though, haven't the devs stated that they will release a trailer closer to launch that shows off different kinds of Inquisitors? I thought that was not a rumored/speculative idea, but a flat out promise...yes? No? I'll look, but I think that, if it's been stated, then we oughta wait for it to be released before we get on BW's case for "not giving us" such and such



#353
Mockingword

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tfw pop tarts aren't available in Australia

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Yeah they are. Specialty candy stores sell them.



#354
Steppenwolf

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tfw pop tarts aren't available in Australia

1398952532037.jpg


Why even go on living?

#355
Hanako Ikezawa

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Speaking of trailers with the character creator, though, haven't the devs stated that they will release a trailer closer to launch that shows off different kinds of Inquisitors? I thought that was not a rumored/speculative idea, but a flat out promise...yes? No? I'll look, but I think that, if it's been stated, then we oughta wait for it to be released before we get on BW's case for "not giving us" such and such

 

I just remember them saying there will be a CC demonstration when people asked if there would be a CC demo.



#356
Nocte ad Mortem

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Well at least I got the part where its okay to be racist agianst the majority correct. Why don't you spell out the rest for me. You should exclude white people because there is too many of them and hire more PoC because there is not enough. Well, what happens if the game/movies staring PoC don't make as much money? Should you continue to force people to hire less white people?

You got the first part incorrect, sorry.

 

Movies starring non-white actors have performed very well at the box office before, so I see no reason to expect them to perform poorly based on the race of the star.



#357
Guest_JujuSamedi_*

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I'm pretty sure that animator was creating a character according to specifications laid out days in advance, rather than something he came up with on the spur of the moment.
 
Also, nobody is saying it's the fault of any individual animator.


The sentence was structured out to be expressive and not literal. By the talking about the lone animator I was making a point of saying they probably needed something to work with while they were creating other modules. Race and diversity was not high on their list than a working mesh.
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#358
Battlebloodmage

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His father is 100% Hawaiian, his mother is English, it’s not hard to find that out. But I’ll take your point fine, he “looks White.” With that, see my reply to the other guy about the Americans hiring Americans thing, its 3 in the morning here and I’m a bit tired, mistake will happen. On point though, it isn’t racist for the studio to change a film because of the reaction of the test audience, which may have been based on many factors - maybe the problem wasn’t that he was Asian, maybe the problem was their chemistry didn’t feel real and the scene felt forced and awkward, perhaps the rest of the film didn’t set up the relationship right and it was just a surprise and didn’t work- we’ll never really know unless we were there. The truth is that studios want to make money, they only care about green, that’s why they’d only hire people who cut off their noses if that’s what the audience demanded and would make them the most money.

 

And I suppose I may have misunderstood what you were talking about with the Goku thing, my bad, I thought you were asking for other alternative besides the pure racism you thought it must have been and since neither of us was in the room when the decision was made and thus we only have speculation and opinion I gave a possible reasoning. And like I said about Tokyo Drift, my understanding was that there was never a point where it was not going to be Paul Walker so IDK what your source is and maybe it is more accurate than mine, which to be fair is just my friend who was obsessed with Paul Walker and practically worshiped the guy.

And I know racism exists, and it’s often being fuelled by a lot of people in powerful positions to keep people down. I just think it is silly to look for it and force it into places where it isn’t, it’s not hard to find real racism, why look for the made up kind, I think that claiming it where it isn’t is belittling to when it really happens. But that’s just me.

There are racism, and it is in film. Well, I'm in college, and I have to do a lot of research for it in my class, so I have to do a bunch of interviews and watch a bunch of movies on the subjects. That is how I know about Tokyo Drift and Romeo Must Die. There would be no reason to change the relationship to just friends when the whole movie is about saving the damsel in distress and the relationship between the whole. The scene that they cut were about the two of them kiss. Why would they cut it and change it to a hug? The whole movie build up to that kiss, so there is chemistry there. Why are you so adamant about no racism in the casting decision? Racism is not always overt, so sometimes it's not about seeing them but also about the decisions being made around them. I have already given examples to the existence of it, like the movie 21 in which about a bunch of Asian kids then they were changed to white kids as well as the Last Airbender which heavily based around Asian culture but all the main characters are white. You can defend one or two decisions, but I can give you even more examples on the subject, and trust me, I wrote a 12 pages paper on it. The racism in the casting decision wasn't like "oh, let's not have Asian characters in it because we hate them" but more like "Asian characters are undesirable and no one would want to see them, so let's replace them". It's more like stereotypical view being perpetuated by the media and in turn being feed back to the media by the audience. It's catch-22. Stereotypes being spread, and it becomes acceptable practice in casting and hiring of Asians. 



#359
O_OotherSide

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You got the first part incorrect, sorry.

 

Movies starring non-white actors have performed very well at the box office before, so I see no reason to expect them to perform poorly based on the race of the star.

You still never spelled it out. So, whats it called when you exclude white people from your cast based on race? Because according to you its okay and they should "Balance out the cast".



#360
Mockingword

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The sentence was structured out to be expressive and not literal. By the talking about the lone animator I was making a point of saying they probably needed something to work with while they were creating other modules. Race and diversity was not high on their list than a working mesh.

But the fact that they, (and literally everybody else) "default" to white when they need "something to work with" is a pretty big problem, systemically speaking.



#361
tara

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Gonna say one more thing and that's that I'm getting real tired of folks going "huhuhhuhu social justice, go back to tumblr" and junk like that because honestly, the majority of the "social justice agenda" people to seem to be so afraid of is literally just queer teens venting about how they're treated like garbage in the real world. Our lives aren't some agenda, we're just trying not to die from bottling up all that stress. :/

 

Queer teens making jokes on a microblogging website are not oppressing you. You can literally just log off the site and go back into the real world where no one is going to kill you in a back alley for being straight. We don't get that luxury, unfortunately.


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#362
ZombieOberyn

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Maybe, who cares? That's not the reality.

 

Just because some hypothetical alternate universe is racist against white people doesn't make it okay to be prejudiced in our own dimension.

True, that's not reality, but you don't seem to be liviing in any sort of reality either so maybe you'd get the picture.

Human society is naturally bound to form along things like race and we better relate to our race/clan/tribe/country/etc. So in order to correct this you want all of the white straight males to feel guility?


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#363
Guest_JujuSamedi_*

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But the fact that they, (and literally everybody else) "default" to white when they need "something to work with" is a pretty big problem, systemically speaking.


We don't really know that. If you ask me saying "Why did you choose a white man?" Is the same question as saying "why did you not choose a black guy." We cannot be sure of race bias undertones just because they go with a white male and this is coming from a bisexual black dude from Africa.

Another thing is just because he looks white does it mean he actually is? I mean have we got any word on his presented ethnicity? Cause assuming his white when we have not got any confirmation is pretty racist in its own sense
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#364
Mockingword

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Yeah that's not reality, but you don't seem to be liviing in any sort of reality either so maybe you'd get the picture.

Yes human society is naturally bound to form along things like race and we better relate to our race/clan/tribe/country/etc. So in order to correct this you want all of the white straight males to feel guility?

I don't automatically "relate better" to white characters. If white people have trouble relating to other human beings because of purely superficial differences like skin colour, then white people are the ones with the problem. PoC are clearly not struggling to relate to white people, since they keep going to movies and buying video games despite a lack of representation.

 

At no point did I say "white straight males" should feel guilty. Only the ones that continue to condone and facilitate this sad state of affairs.



#365
I Like Cats And

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No thanks



#366
Nocte ad Mortem

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You still never spelled it out. So, whats it called when you exclude white people from your cast based on race? Because according to you its okay and they should "Balance out the cast".

It's not "called" anything. Most parts are written for race from the start. Why are we pretending like hordes of white people will turn up and be turned away from this role? 

 

I think I spelled it out pretty clearly. White people make up 70% of the population and are represented as far more than 70% of main roles in media. What is the argument to support continuing this imbalance? That there aren't equally talented people in that remaining 30% of the population that could easily fill those roles is absolutely a racist standpoint. There's no excuse to continue the imbalance. 



#367
jaza

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"Represent everyone equally gaiz!!!1!!11"

 

"Except straight white males lol **** them :)"

 

Yeah okay.

 

 


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#368
TCBC_Freak

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There are racism, and it is in film. Well, I'm in college, and I have to do a lot of research for it in my class, so I have to do a bunch of interviews and watch a bunch of movies on the subjects. That is how I know about Tokyo Drift and Romeo Must Die. There would be no reason to change the relationship to just friends when the whole movie is about saving the damsel in distress and the relationship between the whole. The scene that they cut were about the two of them kiss. Why would they cut it and change it to a hug? The whole movie build up to that kiss, so there is chemistry there. Why are you so adamant about no racism in the casting decision? Racism is not always overt, so sometimes it's not about seeing them but also about the decisions being made around them. I have already given examples to the existence of it, like the movie 21 in which about a bunch of Asian kids then they were changed to white kids as well as the Last Airbender which heavily based around Asian culture but all the main characters are white. You can defend one or two decisions, but I can give you even more examples on the subject, and trust me, I wrote a 12 pages paper on it. The racism in the casting decision wasn't like "oh, let's not have Asian characters in it because we hate them" but more like "Asian characters are undesirable and no one would want to see them, so let's replace them". It's more like stereotypical view being perpetuated by the media and in turn being feed back to the media by the audience. It's catch-22. Stereotypes being spread, and it becomes acceptable practice in casting and hiring of Asians. 

 

Then I ask for you forgiveness, you have studies this subject so I apologies. It has been a long time since I saw Romeo Must Die, and I couldn’t remember how it was set up with regard to their relationship. I concede. And I also apologies because I seem to have took your post in line with some others, a few different peoples post got jumbled in my brain as I responded, and I’m sorry. I never meant to imply that there was no racism in the film industry, just that (because I lacked information about you) that I thought you might be doing what many others have done and finding it where it wasn’t.


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#369
I Like Cats And

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"Represent everyone equally gaiz!!!1!!11"

 

"Except straight white males lol **** them :)"

 

Yeah okay.

True, it's interesting how SJW claim we're entitled but when a game doesn't have x% of gay characters they start screaming homophobia. 



#370
tara

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"Represent everyone equally gaiz!!!1!!11"

 

"Except straight white males lol **** them :)"

 

Yeah okay.

 

No one here is saying "**** white men" ????

 

Did you even read the thread?



#371
Mockingword

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"Represent everyone equally gaiz!!!1!!11"

 

"Except straight white males lol **** them :)"

 

Yeah okay.

Oh, calm down.

 

Straight white male characters would have to be completely absent from all media for a century at least before the playing field would be remotely even.

 

Even if perfectly equal representation started right now, straight white male representation has a head start that will never, ever, ever be eclipsed. They'll be just fine.


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#372
Auztin

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What is with all these LBGT threads popping up.Is there some type of LBGT agenda being pushed.I hear about that movement every time the damn news comes on.If you know your character can be whatever sexuality/gender you want then what the hell is the problem.
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#373
Mockingword

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True, it's interesting how SJW claim we're entitled but when a game doesn't have x% of gay characters they start screaming homophobia. 

You're no less of a social justice warrior than anyone else.

 

The only difference is the injustice you're fighting does not exist and never has.



#374
Mockingword

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What is with all these LBGT threads popping up.Is there some type of LBGT agenda being pushed.I hear about that movement every time the damn news comes on.If you know your character can be whatever sexuality/gender you want then what the hell is the problem.

Lol.

 

And what news would this be?



#375
tara

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What is with all these LBGT threads popping up.Is there some type of LBGT agenda being pushed.I hear about that movement every time the damn news comes on.If you know your character can be whatever sexuality/gender you want then what the hell is the problem.

 

I wasn't aware that asking for the same amount of representation as others counted as an agenda?

 

Damn, why'd no one tell me? I always get left out of these Top Secret LGBT+ world domination meetings. :(