378 réponses à ce sujet

[tara]

I can't help but feel like this thread is just Ragebait, political correctness is after all, a race to the bottom.

 

Really? I feel like the thread is doing pretty fine. No one's said slurs or called anyone freaks (which is what usually happens after like, 2 posts into threads with similar content).

 

Please don't go trying to start up something when we can have a chance at a civil thread to talk about something that's important to people. (not directed at you specifically, mostly to people in general )

[Mockingword]

This will never happen.

[Battlebloodmage]

I agree that Asians do get it bad, but I don't think the way of bringing it to people's attention is by saying we're the worst off. The last thing I want is for minorities and oppressed groups fighting each other and taking part of something like an "oppression olympics," trying to one up each other with "I have it the worst!" "No, I'M the one who has it the worst!"

That's just how I feel though. It seems like it's okay to change race of Asian to white and no one would bat an eyelash. There's a sense that it's acceptable to discriminate against Asian. It's subtle racism. I shouldn't make it about comparing because it's another issue about comparing Asian with other races. They're often being viewed as the model minority, being pitted against other races by the majority. People often ignore the bamboo ceiling which limit the Asian's potential despite their achievement in school and on the field. The stereotypes perpetuate by the media often create a prejudice within the population regarding Asian.

 

Emily Wong is cool, but we don't often see Asians in position of power like Kai Leng and not being treated as a joke. With Bioware's stand on homosexuality, I wish for more positive representation of Asians all around.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

This will never happen.

Pessimist panda strikes again. 

[Spirit Keeper]

This will never happen.

People said we would never fly to the moon, people said than an end to segregation would never end. People said gay marriage would never happen. Yet through the changing of people's attitudes over time these things have come to pass, to varying degrees anyway. Except the moon landing I don't think that's something you changes peoples' minds over...

[Mockingword]

Pessimist panda strikes again. 

Hey, I used to feel differently, you know I did.

[Mockingword]

People said we would never fly to the moon, people said than an end to segregation would never end. People said gay marriage would never happen. Yet through the changing of people's attitudes over time these things have come to pass, to varying degrees anyway. Except the moon landing I don;t think that's something you changes people's minds over...

Right, but that's not what I mean.

 

I mean that specifically asking Bioware for better representation of minorities is a big waste of time.

 

Don't get me wrong, I fully support everything you've said. Knowing that it's a wasted effort just makes me very sad.

[Spirit Keeper]

Right, but that's not what I mean.

 

I mean that specifically asking Bioware for better representation of minorities is a big waste of time.

 

Don't get me wrong, I fully support everything you've said. Knowing that it's a wasted effort just makes me very sad.

It's only pointless if your stop trying. At the very least a discussion has been started. baby steps.

[Battlebloodmage]

Hey, I used to feel differently, you know I did.

Did you take an arrow to the knee?

[tara]

That's just how I feel though. It seems like it's okay to change race of Asian to white and no one would bat an eyelash. There's a sense that it's acceptable to discriminate against Asian. It's subtle racism. I shouldn't make it about comparing because it's another issue about comparing Asian with other races. They're often being viewed as the model minority, being pitted against other races by the majority. People often ignore the bamboo ceiling which limit the Asian's potential despite their achievement in school and on the field. The stereotypes perpetuate by the media often create a prejudice within the population regarding Asian.

 

Emily Wong is cool, but we don't often see Asians in position of power like Kai Leng and not being treated as a joke. With Bioware's stand on homosexuality, I wish for more positive representation of Asians all around.

 

Oh, I absolutely agree w/ you, I just had a bit of an issue with the tone of your initial post. I've seen too many times people fighting each other over who has it worse in society when they could've been helping each other instead.

 

You definitely don't have to tell me twice about Asian folks having all this "model minority" garbage being dumped on them, cause I've lived it, haha. I may only be half, but I don't pass as white whatsoever so I had so many people comment on my grades in school with things like "you only got good grades cause you're Korean," or when my grades started slipping into a more average range, "why are you doing so terrible? I thought you people were supposed to be smart."   "Positive" stereotypes are still stereotypes, and in the case of ones like Asians are smart or Asians are nice and soft-spoken, they're detrimental overall because as soon as you act like a human being (shock! horror! asians AREN'T robots??? what do u mean??) they think you're defective or something.

[Spirit Keeper]

Oh, I absolutely agree w/ you, I just had a bit of an issue with the tone of your initial post. I've seen too many times people fighting each other over who has it worse in society when they could've been helping each other instead.

 

You definitely don't have to tell me twice about Asian folks having all this "model minority" garbage being dumped on them, cause I've lived it, haha. I may only be half, but I don't pass as white whatsoever so I had so many people comment on my grades in school with things like "you only got good grades cause you're Korean," or when my grades started slipping into a more average range, "why are you doing so terrible? I thought you people were supposed to be smart." 

Ouch. I have a wizards staff, you can borrow it if you like? Use it to f*ck their collective assholes.

[oceanicsurvivor]

Right, but that's not what I mean.

 

I mean that specifically asking Bioware for better representation of minorities is a big waste of time.

 

I think it is less of a waste of time then asking, say, the developers of Call of Duty the same thing.

 

Near as I can tell, Bioware is pretty much leading the mainstream game industry when it comes to representation and diversity (in many respects at least). Obviously, thats frustrating in some ways because it'd be lovely to see them do more and push further (I'm not trying to say 'be greatful we're included at all' btw), but I do think they're learning and evolving with their audience. And its good to see that happening. By and large most of the conversations on the forums about these issues stay fairly respectful; that in of itself is a huge step, even if it doesn't always seem like it.

[9TailsFox]

I feel like NO other race is being treated as bad as Asian by the media. Asian females are overly sexualized while Asian males are emasculated and undesirable. Adaptation often have yellowface and change characters from Asian to white. Despite how much hate Kai Leng received, he's my second favorite character because he's not being stereotype as some kinds of nerdy virgin. 

People don't hate Kai Leng because he Asian, people hate Kai Leng because he is Kai Leng.

[O_OotherSide]

What is "equal representation"? For every white guy there must be a black,asian,native american, middle eastern man/women/transgender?

 

The game is created in canada(mostly white) by a team I'm willing to bet is mostly white men. Its biggest market is probably America(mostly white) and alot of its setting is based on medieval europe(mostly white). Is it really so evil that they usually have mostly white people in the trailers? Is it wrong that crouching tiger hidden dragon doesn't have any hispanic men in it?

 

While showing the character creator in the tralier having every skin color and gender under the sun is a very good idea, I don't see the complant that the default protagonist in a mostly white country are  usually white. If I'm watching an asian/indian/african movie I'm not wondering why there isn't equal representaion of every race, so I'm a bit clueless on why companys in predominantly white countries have to have an equal representaion of eveyone.

[Battlebloodmage]

People don't hate Kai Leng because he Asian, people hate Kai Leng because he is Kai Leng.

I know. He's a jerk, but I'm just stating the reason why I'm a fan of him, not why others hate him.

[O_OotherSide]

That's just how I feel though. It seems like it's okay to change race of Asian to white and no one would bat an eyelash. There's a sense that it's acceptable to discriminate against Asian. It's subtle racism. I shouldn't make it about comparing because it's another issue about comparing Asian with other races. They're often being viewed as the model minority, being pitted against other races by the majority. People often ignore the bamboo ceiling which limit the Asian's potential despite their achievement in school and on the field. The stereotypes perpetuate by the media often create a prejudice within the population regarding Asian.

 

Emily Wong is cool, but we don't often see Asians in position of power like Kai Leng and not being treated as a joke. With Bioware's stand on homosexuality, I wish for more positive representation of Asians all around.

 

Nick Fury was changed to a sammy in the ultimate universe and movies, and there is a black Viking God in thor. To me that just as annoying as making Goku a white guy

[Dave of Canada]

Remember when video games were about marketing gameplay, mechanics and story? Good times.

[O_OotherSide]

I feel like NO other race is being treated as bad as Asian by the media. Asian females are overly sexualized while Asian males are emasculated and undesirable. Adaptation often have yellowface and change characters from Asian to white. Despite how much hate Kai Leng received, he's my second favorite character because he's not being stereotype as some kinds of nerdy virgin.

When I think of Asian actor I think of Bruce lee(Badass), Jet lee(Badass), and Jackie Chan(Funny Badass). Liking a character just because they aren't a sterotype is silly if they are lame as hell and make everyone around them act  stupid :-P. Though I know where you're coming from, I like the black guy(frogot his name) from MGS:rising because they didn't try way to hard to make him the cool sly black guy like in the game before it.

[Mockingword]

I think it is less of a waste of time then asking, say, the developers of Call of Duty the same thing.

 

Near as I can tell, Bioware is pretty much leading the mainstream game industry when it comes to representation and diversity (in many respects at least). Obviously, thats frustrating in some ways because it'd be lovely to see them do more and push further (I'm not trying to say 'be greatful we're included at all' btw), but I do think they're learning and evolving with their audience. And its good to see that happening. By and large most of the conversations on the forums about these issues stay fairly respectful; that in of itself is a huge step, even if it doesn't always seem like it.

I think the opposite. I think people have a tendency to see Bioware as being better than they really are, just because there is literally no other option.

 

I can't speak to race, since that doesn't directly affect me, but I can definitely say that, despite their public stance about inclusivity, Bioware's treatement of LGBT players and characters is less than respectful.

 

I mean, they commissioned a prominent and outspoken anti-gay activist to write a Dragon Age spin-off comic, and outside of romance content (which up until DA2 has been heavily restricted for same-sex oriented players), LGB relationships are hidden (Bioware calls this 'being subtle'), and the characters in those relationships frequently end up dead.

[Battlebloodmage]

What is "equal representation"? For every white guy there must be a black,asian,native american, middle eastern man/women/transgender?

 

The game is created in canada(mostly white) by a team I'm willing to bet is mostly white men. Its biggest market is probably America(mostly white) and alot of its setting is based on medieval europe(mostly white). Is it really so evil that they usually have mostly white people in the trailers? Is it wrong that crouching tiger hidden dragon doesn't have any hispanic men in it?

 

While showing the character creator in the tralier having every skin color and gender under the sun is a very good idea, I don't see the complant that the default protagonist in a mostly white country are  usually white. If I'm watching an asian/indian/african movie I'm not wondering why there isn't equal representaion of every race, so I'm a bit clueless on why companys in predominantly white countries have to have an equal representaion of eveyone.

The issue is not about ratio. It's just nice to have some positive representation. It's not like people demand or force Bioware to do this or do that. They don't actually have to do anything. It's more like people just want to bring the attention to them if it's something they would consider doing. With a popular game like this, it's a good opportunity for the mass to be exposed to others' culture and way of life. I know a lady that hasn't met a black person before she were 18. 

[Steppenwolf]

I'm sorry, but paying money to play a game just because it has "gay content" is ridiculous to me. It's so shallow. You may as well just pay for porn instead of video games. I'm a bisexual, biracial man but I don't give two ****s about bisexual content in games that I would otherwise not play or marketing materials featuring biracial PCs.

You make it sound as if the possibility of a black trans man in a relationship with hispanic man is something that doesn't happen. I know you're trying to conjure up this oh-so-impossible situation as a way to make your argument look stronger, but it's weak, man.

You make it sound as if that happening in real life is reason to market it in a video game ad campaign. Some people shove footballs up their bums but I don't expect BioWare to market to that demographic.

[tara]

What is "equal representation"? For every white guy there must be a black,asian,native american, middle eastern man/women/transgender?

 

The game is created in canada(mostly white) by a team I'm willing to bet is mostly white men. Its biggest market is probably America(mostly white) and alot of its setting is based on medieval europe(mostly white). Is it really so evil that they usually have mostly white people in the trailers? Is it wrong that crouching tiger hidden dragon doesn't have any hispanic men in it?

 

While showing the character creator in the tralier having every skin color and gender under the sun is a very good idea, I don't see the complant that the default protagonist in a mostly white country are  usually white. If I'm watching an asian/indian/african movie I'm not wondering why there isn't equal representaion of every race, so I'm a bit clueless on why companys in predominantly white countries have to have an equal representaion of eveyone.

 

Thedas may be based off of medieval Europe- but it isn't Europe. There's no reason that a fictional land has to keep the same percentage of different ethnicities/races/whatever as historical Europe.

 

P.S. Europe has more than white people. Even in the medieval ages. (link is to a blog dedicated around dismantling the old idea that Europe has been all white people, all the time)

[Mockingword]

Remember when video games were about marketing gameplay, mechanics and story? Good times.

Do you remember a time when women couldn't vote, and certain people weren't allowed on golf courses?

 

Pepperidge Farm remembers.

[Battlebloodmage]

Nick Fury was changed to a sammy in the ultimate universe and movies, and there is a black Viking God in thor. To me that just as annoying as making Goku a white guy

Yup, that's annoying, and imagine how a minority feels when their already limited roles are being changed and played by a white guy simply because they're being viewed as unmarketable and undesirable, not because of some kind of novelty or some kind of bold statement of Hollywood like with Nick Fury and black Viking. Those are minor roles, it's Hollywood's way of "showing" how progressive they are. I find it more "cute" than annoying. I dare them to change superman to an Asian or Spiderman to a black guy. I don't think Captain America's shield would be strong enough to withstand the flame from the nerdrage. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

It's in more than video games sadly. White and male is the default, as in all people can come see this movie/play the game/enjoy this product; it is weirdly coded in marketing as 'universal'. If women are overly advertised in movies its a 'chick flick', and similar stigmas apply to other groups as well. This is a problem with marketing and with how we have been trained, as consumers, to interpret the marketing material presented to us.

I know. I'm just keeping it in video games since that is what we are discussing.